EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 110
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KwarK
United States42752 Posts
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Ardias
Russian Federation610 Posts
On May 02 2022 09:25 KwarK wrote: Why are we comparing total wealth (a measurement at a single point in time) with GDP (an amount over a period)? Because I was asked how equal the distribution of both country's assets was among the population, and how much of it was concentrated in the hands of the richest few. I've provided the data I'd managed to aquire in the free time that I had. If somebody will give me the objective criteria of how to compare the living standards for the most of the population, I'll gladly look it up. | ||
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Lwerewolf
Bulgaria78 Posts
On May 02 2022 09:05 Ardias wrote:I've given my personal opinion regarding the subject below the chart, but since I'm a Russian orc, ... Sorry, but I haven't seen any such accusations here yet. This is TL. I'm pretty sure that if anybody crosses that line, they'll be dealt with, so feel free to have a good, argument-backed discussion. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
HELSINKI — When the Finnish Reservists’ Assn. recently announced wartime defense courses for civilian women in the southern town of Haemeenlinna, the 400 slots filled almost immediately, with a waiting list of 500 more. Topics will include shooting, cybersecurity and how to manage the first several days of an invasion from abroad. “I wouldn’t call it fear,” said Sgt. Sonja Airikki, a 39-year-old reservist who will lead the training next month. “It’s more about being prepared.” Military readiness is ingrained in the culture of this country of 5.5 million people that shares an 833-mile border and a long, complicated history with Russia. The relationship has grown increasingly tense since Russia invaded Ukraine two months ago. For the first time, Finland is considering seeking membership in NATO, prompting threats of retaliation from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Putin hasn’t said how he would retaliate if Finland were to become a member, but experts suggested that economic sanctions, cyberattacks or even military action were likely. The question for lawmakers is whether the risks of not joining are greater than the risks of doing so. Speaking to reporters this month, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto said that the invasion of Ukraine had revealed Russia to be a dangerous aggressor, capable of mobilizing 100,000 soldiers against a neighboring country and perhaps even making good on its threats to use nuclear or other unconventional weapons. “People in Finland are concerned about what if we see these type of weapons used. What is our response? How do we protect our people?” he said. “These are the issues that have changed.” Charly Salonius-Pasternak, a defense specialist at the Finnish Institute of International Affairs, a government-funded think tank, said Haavisto’s words marked a Rubicon-crossing moment in Finland’s relationship with Russia. “It may not be dramatic to most people outside Finland, but in Finnish politics to say that Russia is a potential threat and the cause for reevaluating our security policy is quite dramatic,” he said. “It was always obvious, but to say it is quite new.” In many ways, Finland has always been preparing for war with Russia. There are more than 5,000 bomb shelters throughout the capital, Helsinki. The extensive subway system — which features a swimming pool, a museum, shops and restaurants that have made it a playground — also includes emergency shelters and an estimated two-week supply of food that could protect the city’s population of 630,000 should Russia attack again. With an army of 280,000 soldiers and 900,000 reservists, Finland already spends more than 2% of its gross domestic product on defense — the NATO target that the majority of its members fail to meet. It is also one of the few countries in the European Union that requires all men to serve in the military — or perform other national service — when they turn 18. In polls, about 80% of Finns say they stand ready to defend their country, one of the highest rates in the world. The national character, galvanized during the Soviet invasions, is reflected in the Finnish word “sisu,” meaning determination, stoicism, perseverance, strength of will, and never backing down in the face of adversity. “It’s a big deal to be a Finn,” said Janne Kuusela, director general of the Defense Ministry’s policy division. “On one hand we have created a society which the U.N. many times over has concluded that Finland is the happiest nation on Earth. Sometimes that surprises us, but we very much like our country and our society and understand on the other side of the coin that everyone here needs to be prepared to defend it.” Finnish public broadcaster Yle reported last week that since late February the military supply store Varusteleka has seen an 80% jump in sales. The Finnish Reservists’ Assn. expects its membership to double this year to 100,000. About 90% of members are reservists and the rest are civilians. All its classes for 2022 are full. Source | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5564 Posts
On May 02 2022 10:45 Lwerewolf wrote: Sorry, but I haven't seen any such accusations here yet. This is TL. I'm pretty sure that if anybody crosses that line, they'll be dealt with, so feel free to have a good, argument-backed discussion. It's hardly argument-backed when they're spreading blatant lies like the "massacre in Odessa" nonsense. Straight out of Russian propaganda. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On May 02 2022 16:34 maybenexttime wrote: It's hardly argument-backed when they're spreading blatant lies like the "massacre in Odessa" nonsense. Straight our of Russian propaganda. I would say Ardias has proven quite a bit of effort to verify what the "news" he is fed. And I would say his distance to the official narrative and positions should be undoubted from everything posted here. I honestly would consider his input here as one of the most useful and informative insights this thread has to offer. Of course, it is left to the reader to filter again through what he says to figure out where his takeaways are correct or wrong. But if you are only interested in having the exact same sources and opinions you know anyway repeated to you nonstop, then you probably weren't interested in a conversation, to begin with. In the end, it shows the power of information bubbles and how even with a critical approach to it, propaganda will still creep in people's minds. Make this a constructive conversation and everyone can feel free to source counter positions to where his interpretation is wrong. From all I saw, he is actually interested in engaging those. But if you blindly attack everyone, who only fell for 5% of the Kremlin stories, then well, you should probably just nuke this world, because you probably consider everyone the enemy anyway. Oh, and it is probably worth it to try to get off the high horse regarding people actually trying to break information bubbles, when the accessability to information is so drastically different  | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5564 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
On May 02 2022 04:36 Dav1oN wrote: + Show Spoiler + But if at the start I could believe that declared goals (acceptance of Crimea, separation of LDPR in their administrative borders, Russian language as secon official, reducing of the Urkainian military and changes in government) were actual goals of the war, with the Ukrainian resistance becoming more tough and negotiations grinding to a halt, Russia decided to change the goals and went for the territorial control, since our government understood that nobody in Ukraine will sign peace in our terms. I believe so because in the first weeks of the war it was even forbidden to remove Ukrainian flags from the Russian-controlled territory (not including LDPR though). Even administration in Kherson, Melitopol, Energodarm Berdyansk etc. firstly remained the same. It's in the late March when we started to create military administration on controlled territories and appoint our own mayors in charge of the cities. I strongly disagree, the real goal of imperialistic regime was always a land grab and "eliminating" Ukrainian identity. You should've been try to listen what kremlin official told us. They've been trying to gaslight the real intentions since forever, including all those bullshit reasons with demilitarization and denazification, there were many words and everything was a nonsense. From the very first day mostly Russian speaking Kharkiv was shelled, with artillery and rocket strikes on residential areas. Does it looks like saving Russian speaking citizens? Quite the opposite. Kremlin simply does not care neither about Ukrainians nor about Russians in general. On day 2 Russian army attempted to capture Kharkiv by a strike group of soldiers/vehicles, as a result they got lost in a city and were eliminated quickly. Maybe before 2014 there were some locals who were interested to be a part of the Russian world, but after 24th of Feb there is no support for the Russian government anymore, majority of the locals clearly understands what is happening, and this is happening in the city 40km from the border. Just think of it, every single action was made by the kremlin resulted the opposite effect. As a result - Ukrainian government, the army and the people are on the same page and are willing to fight till the victory, we care about freedom & democracy historically speaking. It was weird to see/hear when fuhrer and other officials told during their press conferences, here is a number of reasons why so called special operation must be done for the "good": - As if Ukraine is not a legit country w/o history - Ukrainians are suffering from high prices of utility bills - Language discrimination - Nazi government - Biolabs that developed COVID and with the assistance of the US will create a specific viruses that will target Russian "genome" and this virus somehow will be delivered by the seasonal birds - Dirty bomb creation - Planning to attack Russia and/or Donbass WTF? Every single lane sounds insane. All of that is just a pile of crap for dummies. I understand it was mostly targeted for the local rednecks in the Russian provinces, but still... All the reasons in the list are straight from bad sci-fi script, even language discrimination is far from reality. First of all you can speak any language you want anywhere, no one really cares, I've seen no signs of discrimination, in Kharkiv we have many universities and high schools with many foreign students, we are very diverse and opposite to xenophobia. Now here me out, as a bilingual (was born in Russian speaking family) I see absolutely no reason why should we have Russian as a second official language in Ukraine. Everything governmental should be purely in Ukrainian, cinemas, movies, sports etc. In universities the second official language is...English, you could write a diploma in ENG and it will be accepted officially, that practice is happening for a number of years already, some of the official papers (not only in education, but for example in trading) could be translated to ENG and considered as legit as well. To sum it up: you could speak, write and think whatever language you want to, no one cares and no oppression, but if you are a part of governmental structure or broadcasting, or you are dealing with the official papers - must use Ukrainian exclusively. Just deal with it. On May 02 2022 01:22 marwin wrote: That's some "russia today" explanation of history. 1) The language law you are referring to(so called "Kolisnichenko-Kivalov law") was the case of continuous scandals, disputes and even fights in parliament. This law eventually (in 2018) was admitted as anti-constitutional. Most people of russian-speaking region had never felt oppressed by the language, beliefs or nationality neither before 2012 nor after cancelation of this law, nor after russian annexation of Crimea and aggression on Donbass. Sure you could meet some marginals who said: "I don't want to read medicine instruction in ukrainian", or "I don't want to watch movies in ukrainian in cinema". 2) It was a Kremlin agenda and idea of federalization and making independent republics in the south-east of Ukraine (creating "Novorossiya" in the best scenario) and was actively sponsored. 3) All the resources were on the side of ruling at that time pro-president party "Partiya Regionov" (majority of them stayed in parliament after president fled (what purges are you talking about?) and accused him in all the "sins"). 4) The involvement of nationalists in dealing with pro-russian protests was meager, much more impact did "titushki" + Show Spoiler + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky 5) Actions in Luhansk and Donetsk were entirely planned and controlled by Kremlin with a help of local collaborators. 6) Right-wing party "Svoboda" held only 10% of the parliament seats and barely influenced on the situation. Nationalist organization "Pravyy sektor" denied the statements of its member Ihor Mosiychuk about "the trains of friendship". None of trains with nationalist were sent. 7) The referendum in Crimea was obviously faked because there are no fair elections in Russia. We surely can argue about the result but it's irrelevant in terms of norms and law. Nowadays (before the war), the vast majority of people still considered annexed Crimea and a part of Donbass as territory of Ukraine; they used to it and put up with the current situation where Ukraine wasn't able to take it back with military force. People freely communicated in whatever language they wanted no matter where - Lviv, Odesa, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia or Uzhgorod. "Pravyy Sektor" almost disappeared from media space. Life was back to the "old" ways. Everything ruined on the 24th of february. Can confirm every single bit, that is exactly what I witnessed as well during last years. It was a great and detailed summary Hey mate, thank you for asking Yea, after a bunch of relocations (5 or 6) and with help/support of the company I worked with - we finally managed to find a quite place. It was hell of a ride. Although, I must admit the housing crisis affects the pricing incredibly, western Ukraine is overpriced at the moment. Having pets adds complexity for the searching, as not many are willing to rent the housing for the people with pets, and that's a shame. Irresponsible people won't evacuate pets from the other side of the country while fleeing, but the householders don't think this way for some reason. In general the renting price went up 3-4 times of what it was before the war. Maybe the situation will be more acceptable in a few weeks or a month since Kyiv residents are coming back to the capital cause it's relatively safe out there at the moment. But coming back to Kharkiv is still quite risky, at first the surrounding areas of the city must be liberated. Overall it's safer than it used to be, but some outer parts of the city is still getting shelled, so I hope that the residents will be as safe as possible meanwhile + Show Spoiler + I have read multiple commentators say that Putin found it a threat that Ukraine, a country Russians have traditionally looked down upon, was catching up and in some cases passing quality of life for the middle and lower classes and this was about knocking them back down. They were saying it was a threat to Putins power to have to many people asking why a country with so much less resources could do better than them. Do you believe their is any truth to that? Lately an average low and middle class citizens in Ukraine are having better standards of living in comparison to Russia due to the western course of development - that is correct, life was improving slowly but surely. We have to work harder and are having much less resources overall, but we are more efficient and less corrupt. From my POV everything you mentioned sounds correct. It sounds opportunistic from home owners to increase rent 3-4 times unless there are barely any free spaces to rent. I'm glad you're ok though! --- I was a student in high school back then but in retrospect I still remember when they cut off gas in 2009 due to Ukraine-Russia dispute. They did it in January when it's winter, so it was probably stupid cold. For a student that didn't follow news at the time, it must have been a major topic nationally if I learnt about it back then. I suppose we didn't have heating in school, but I forgot details already. As mentioned below, not just Bulgaria, but also Hungary, Romania, Poland and others experienced difficulties. E.g. from Wikipedia: On 2 January 2009, Hungary, Romania, and Poland reported that pressure in their pipelines had dropped. Bulgaria also reported that their natural gas supply was dropping, affecting the shipment of natural gas to Turkey, Greece, and Macedonia. Furthermore, the United Kingdom Government announced that it was preparing to enter its gas reserves after gas pressure had dropped from the continent.[69][70][71] On 4 January 2009, both RosUkrEnergo and Gazprom filed lawsuits against Ukraine and Naftohaz respectively with the Stockholm Tribunal of the Arbitration Institute.[72][73] Ukraine also filed lawsuits with the tribunal.[74] According to Naftohaz, RosUkrEnergo owes the company $40 million for services in transportation of natural gas.[75] On 5 January 2009, Kyiv's economic court banned Naftohaz from transshipping Russian natural gas in 2009 at the price of $1.60 per 1,600 cubic meters per 100 kilometers. The court declared contracts made by Naftohaz for the transit of natural gas through Ukraine void because the contracts were signed by Naftohaz without authorization from the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine.[76] On 30 March 2010, the Stockholm tribunal ordered Naftohaz to pay RosUkrEnergo around $200 million as a penalty for various breaches of supply, transit, and storage contracts.[77] On 8 June 2010, the tribunal ordered Naftohaz to return 11 billion cubic metres (390 billion cubic feet) of natural gas to RosUkrEnergo. The tribunal further ordered that RosUkrEnergo would receive from Naftohaz a further 1.1 billion cubic metres (39 billion cubic feet) of natural gas in lieu of RosUkrEnergo's damages for breach of contract.[77][78] On 5 January 2009 Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin instructed Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller to reduce natural gas exports to Europe via transshipment through Ukraine by quantities equivalent to the amounts of gas which Ukraine had allegedly diverted from the pipelines since deliveries ended on 1 January 2009.[79] On 7 January, all Russian natural gas exports via Ukraine were halted amid accusations between the two parties.[80][81][82] Several countries reported a major fall in supplies of Russian gas starting on 7 January; Bulgaria, Moldova, and Slovakia were among the most affected by these supply drops.[5][83][84] Source At that time, Yulia Tymoshenko was prime minister of Ukraine and she was later sent to jail. It all makes sense now in retrospect that all Kremlin has wanted for all these years is servants. That was clear when Euromaidan happened, but what I didn't realise until now is that war didn't start with Crimea. It started at least in 2008 if not earlier. However, it was just a gas/economy war at the time. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On May 02 2022 17:22 maybenexttime wrote: Spreading blatant misinformation is the opposite of informative. Feel free to correct it. And I remain with the idea of it being informative to see what of the Kremlin propaganda sticks, what is discarded etc. But then again, I don't use TL as a source for news. But as an insight into different points of view and place for discussion. | ||
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Artesimo
Germany546 Posts
On May 02 2022 17:37 mahrgell wrote: Feel free to correct it. And I remain with the idea of it being informative to see what of the Kremlin propaganda sticks, what is discarded etc. But then again, I don't use TL as a source for news. But as an insight into different points of view and place for discussion. Yeah, I agree with mahrgell. The guy has clearly demonstrated that he is against the war and that he is making a good faith effort. If you object to something he is saying, present him with evidence in a non hostile manner. You don't break echo chambers and information bubbles by being a dick to people who are stuck in it. Behaviour like this is how you push them deeper in. Edit: on the same note, I genuinely cringe when I see people calling russians orcs or cockroaches. I can understand that kind of emotional outburst from someone living in ukraine or having close ties to it, but from everyone else I find it unacceptable. Especially since I have seen it turn into straight up nationalism and racism IRL, so I would be happy if we can keep that in mind in here. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4730 Posts
Why would You trust Russian line on any of this? It's almost like some of You guys want to be lied to. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 02 2022 18:12 Artesimo wrote: Yeah, I agree with mahrgell. The guy has clearly demonstrated that he is against the war and that he is making a good faith effort. If you object to something he is saying, present him with evidence in a non hostile manner. You don't break echo chambers and information bubbles by being a dick to people who are stuck in it. Behaviour like this is how you push them deeper in. Edit: on the same note, I genuinely cringe when I see people calling russians orcs or cockroaches. I can understand that kind of emotional outburst from someone living in ukraine or having close ties to it, but from everyone else I find it unacceptable. Especially since I have seen it turn into straight up nationalism and racism IRL, so I would be happy if we can keep that in mind in here. Orcs and cockroaches aren't used to refer to Russians as a whole. Orcs are Russian troops inside Ukraine. Cockroaches are useful idiots (or agents) working in the West. For example, Le Pen, with large loans from Russian banks is a cockroach. | ||
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Artesimo
Germany546 Posts
On May 02 2022 18:56 Silvanel wrote: I command maybenexttime, marwin and Dav1oN for pushing back on those lies. Honestly, when I saw those walls of text containing truths, mixed with opinions, half-lies and blatant propaganda I kind of had enough. I mean, I see this everywhere: on my social feed, on YT, Twitter and here on TL. I don't have energy anymore to fight this. You need to realize Russia is paying people to spread misinformation. You can't expect, normal people, to time and time again commit their time to disprove the same lie again. It's almost like some of You guys want to be lied to. Way to miss the point. If you object to something, then fight it with information. Otherwise you would probably do less harm by just saying nothing. Think about this admittedly a bit exaggerated example: you are an average bloke that is making some effort to do better, but you still slip up at times. And whenever you do, you get told to fuck off and that you are a pos, and none of your steps to betterment get acknowledged. How good are the chances that you keep on trying, and not just say 'fuck it' yourself and give up? And another thing to think about, I am sure you have either done this yourself at some point, or witnessed someone doing it. Someone has a opinion or take on something, that might be wrong, or it is at least debatable. He gets aggressive pushback on it, as a result his pride makes him double down on it. What could have been a objective disagreement now is also a matter of hurt pride, and much harder to clear up. EDIT: On May 02 2022 19:00 Ghanburighan wrote: Orcs and cockroaches aren't used to refer to Russians as a whole. Orcs are Russian troops inside Ukraine. Cockroaches are useful idiots (or agents) working in the West. For example, Le Pen, with large loans from Russian banks is a cockroach. I understand that nuance as much as I understand that it often gets lost along the way. Amazing that I have to defend 'just don't dehumanize people'... | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6931 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5564 Posts
Here's a detailed overview of the events on Wiki and Military History with lots of references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes Shorter summaries by BBC and The Guardian: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27275383 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/there-was-heroism-and-cruelty-on-both-sides-the-truth-behind-one-of-ukraines-deadliest-days Detailed reconstruction of the events by independent Ukrainian journalists (with ample footage) that the above sources mention: https://2maygroup.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-chronology-of-events-that-occurred.html Footage of the pro-Russian protester shooting an AK-47 from behind a police cordon: https://inforesist.org/video-fakt-miliciya-soboj-zakryvaet-separatistov-te-iz-za-spin-milicii-strelyayut-iz-avtomatov-po-lyudyam/ Footage by Novaya Gazeta (pro-opposition paper from Russia): 0:00-3:15 protests and anti-protests erupt into clashes 4:05-5:00 pro-Ukrainian (allegedly far-right activist) shot dead by a pro-Russian protester 5:05-8:15 that is when things started to get out of control 8:15-9:00 pro-Russian protesters shooting at pro-Ukrainian protesters from rooftop of the Trades Union Building 9:10- women and children can be seen in the windows of the building (hiding from the clashes) and pro-Russian protesters throwing Molotov cocktails at the pro-Ukrainian protesters According to the reconstruction by the aforementioned Ukrainian journalists, the pro-Ukrainian protesters responded with their own molotovs. Footage of pro-Ukrainian protesters trying to save people trapped in the building: As you can see, it was anything but a massacre. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Artesimo
Germany546 Posts
On May 02 2022 20:01 maybenexttime wrote: + Show Spoiler + As Silvanel pointed out, Russia propaganda deliberately mixes truth with half-truths and blatant lies. It's difficult to tell who's genuinely misinformed and who's a Russian troll. It's tiring to debunk the same nonsense again and again. Here's a detailed overview of the events on Wiki and Military History with lots of references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes Shorter summaries by BBC and The Guardian: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27275383 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/there-was-heroism-and-cruelty-on-both-sides-the-truth-behind-one-of-ukraines-deadliest-days Detailed reconstruction of the events by independent Ukrainian journalists (with ample footage) that the above sources mention: https://2maygroup.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-chronology-of-events-that-occurred.html Footage of the pro-Russian protester shooting an AK-47 from behind a police cordon: https://inforesist.org/video-fakt-miliciya-soboj-zakryvaet-separatistov-te-iz-za-spin-milicii-strelyayut-iz-avtomatov-po-lyudyam/ Footage by Novaya Gazeta (pro-opposition paper from Russia): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVAOO3wJlzc 0:00-3:15 protests and anti-protests erupt into clashes 4:05-5:00 pro-Ukrainian (allegedly far-right activist) shot dead by a pro-Russian protester 5:05-8:15 that is when things started to get out of control 8:15-9:00 pro-Russian protesters shooting at pro-Ukrainian protesters from rooftop of the Trades Union Building 9:10- women and children can be seen in the windows of the building (hiding from the clashes) and pro-Russian protesters throwing Molotov cocktails at the pro-Ukrainian protesters According to the reconstruction by the aforementioned Ukrainian journalists, the pro-Ukrainian protesters responded with their own molotovs. Footage of pro-Ukrainian protesters trying to save people trapped in the building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o_Yv7H_JFs As you can see, it was anything but a massacre. Spoilered to not create a huge wall of text, but this is exactly the kind of response I can get behind, probably even way more effort behind it than I would have expected. Very well done maybenexttime. This is how you can help someone challenge their own views. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
I understand that nuance as much as I understand that it often gets lost along the way. Amazing that I have to defend 'just don't dehumanize people'... This smells like yet another way to call people russophobic, like Russian propaganda wants us to do, even when they're talking about war criminals, rapists and genocidal monsters. If a Russian invades another country, we can and should curse them for it. If Russia is illegally invading its neighbour with genocidal intent, Russia needs to be cursed for it. They can get their good name back when they stop tarnishing it with their filthy behaviour and repent. This is not the time for virtue signaling with sensitive language, we have a genocide to stop. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18002 Posts
On May 02 2022 20:10 Ghanburighan wrote: Russia wouldn't be spending nearly 3 billion dollars on propaganda a year if it didn't work. It cannot be just "countered" with information. It's meant to distract, enrage, and otherwise derail discussion so we cannot focus on what's important. That's why most countries outright banned Russian state media and others placed warning labels on them. You should really only cite it when particular caveats apply such as looking for evidence of Russian intent. Otherwise, it should be treated as the maliciously designed disinformation that it is, and ignore it. This smells like yet another way to call people russophobic, like Russian propaganda wants us to do, even when they're talking about war criminals, rapists and genocidal monsters. If a Russian invades another country, we can and should curse them for it. If Russia is illegally invading its neighbour with genocidal intent, Russia needs to be cursed for it. They can get their good name back when they stop tarnishing it with their filthy behaviour and repent. This is not the time for virtue signaling with sensitive language, we have a genocide to stop. There are currently, by a rough estimate, 150k Russian troops in Ukraine. Some of those are genocidal maniacs committing atrocities in Mariupol, Bucha and elsewhere. A lot more of them are clueless consumers of the propaganda machine, there to liberate their Ukrainian brothers from evil nazis. Are they brainwashed? Undoubtedly. Are they naive? Maybe some. Are they evil genocidal orcs? ... no. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 02 2022 20:50 Acrofales wrote: There are currently, by a rough estimate, 150k Russian troops in Ukraine. Some of those are genocidal maniacs committing atrocities in Mariupol, Bucha and elsewhere. A lot more of them are clueless consumers of the propaganda machine, there to liberate their Ukrainian brothers from evil nazis. Are they brainwashed? Undoubtedly. Are they naive? Maybe some. Are they evil genocidal orcs? ... no. I'm sorry, but they are all committing genocide. Whether they agree with it or not. Whether they themselves have raped or killed civilians. They are enemy combatants in an illegal genocidal war, they are fair targets for killing, and also being called orcs. | ||
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