EPTBlizzard Activision Sued Over Company Culture - Page 10
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StalkyBear
55 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On July 31 2021 22:30 StalkyBear wrote: California's investigation started two years ago. Mike Morhaime left the company two years ago. How sad we all were then to be losing him. Definitely has a bit of a rats jumping the ship vibe to it now. He knew. He enabled. And if he sold stocks on this info he can be held accountable by the SEC for insider trading. I am thinking that will be of very little console to all the women that he allowed to be traumatized under his "leadership." At least he got out in time to save his own skin though, right? Oh get out of here! Do you really think that Mike leaving Blizz when he did had ANYTHING to do with this? I sincerely doubt it. He left when he did because that's when Activision was becoming tyrannical over the company and ruining the quality of the products. He was being pushed out, for years before that for much of the same reason. What was going on with this lawsuit was occuring below him. He had his hands so full with all of the bullshit that was happening at his level that it's almost impossible to think that anything happening below him was anywhere on his radar. You seriously really need to rethink your timeline here. Don't let the news of the moment completely skew how you see the last few years. MANY other things were going on and MANY other people were leaving and all of them were citing things that were not related to this lawsuit as for why they left. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On July 31 2021 06:04 KwarK wrote: Who is calling for you personally to support them? I don’t know that I’d have noticed your lack of support had you not brought it up. I used the walkout as an opportunity to criticize them, just in a joking way, and apparently it was a major faux pas. As if the company full of people lying and failing to deliver on their promises now deserves some more slack when it's revealed that they're also a company with a hostile work environment full of misogynists and silent enablers. Sure, they've disrespected and lied to their loyal customers who give them the benefit of the doubt over and over again when it comes to game development, but now when it comes to a thing as simple as changing their entire toxic culture, yes let's all line up and believe them again and support them! There was at least an illusion that the executives were forcing the game development in a direction that was more like "how can we impress shareholders each quarter" even if that's at the expense of a healthier long term plan of simply making good games, which ideally is best for everyone, shareholders included. So people had this ideal in their heads of pure-of-heart developers doing the best they can under the directives of money-grubbing suits who don't care about anything but profits. But no, it turns out there are scumbags at all levels, and a prevailing social acceptance among everyone else that "hey it's totally okay to stay silent and enable this to save our careers. we can't be expected to put ourselves at risk in an attempt to prevent more victims." But hey they pinkie promise swear they're going to absolutely transform themselves and be better! And oh how awful it was for me to interrupt this kumbaya moment with the derision they have earned many times over. | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On July 31 2021 10:33 tec27 wrote: I think Nony is personally upset because he posted a very bad take on Twitter the other day about how Blizzard employees didn't walk out over being forced to implement bad game design in WoW, but they did walk out over a culture of sexual harassment, abuse, and blatant discrimination, so clearly we shouldn't take them at their word that they actually cared about the game design. I replied to him telling him it was a bad take and very tonedeaf, he doubled down, and subsequently deleted his Twitter entirely. I think he took my response as "you must support them" when it was really "hey can you at least be respectful of these people". I checked in on this thread to see how bad it was getting yesterday, only to find he had since come in here to double down on bad takes about a situation he keeps telling us he doesn't care about enough to find out the details of. Shrug. rofl i blacked out my twitter account to join in the support despite my strong beliefs to the contrary that this absolutely shitty group of people might actually be able to change things, and this is your response? you're a real piece of shit. just goes to show that you dont care about the issues but would rather flit around looking for an opportunity to appear morally superior no, im not going to INCREASE my respect of people when it turns out that they're worse than i knew | ||
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Purressure
106 Posts
The fact the TL website went for a 24h blackout is really telling, knowing this used to be a place where Blizzard was admired, obviously for the games mostly but still, a very strong message also to those who tried to ignore it whilst visiting TL daily. | ||
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cha0
Canada504 Posts
On August 01 2021 00:21 Vindicare605 wrote: Oh get out of here! Do you really think that Mike leaving Blizz when he did had ANYTHING to do with this? I sincerely doubt it. He left when he did because that's when Activision was becoming tyrannical over the company and ruining the quality of the products. He was being pushed out, for years before that for much of the same reason. What was going on with this lawsuit was occuring below him. He had his hands so full with all of the bullshit that was happening at his level that it's almost impossible to think that anything happening below him was anywhere on his radar. You seriously really need to rethink your timeline here. Don't let the news of the moment completely skew how you see the last few years. MANY other things were going on and MANY other people were leaving and all of them were citing things that were not related to this lawsuit as for why they left. I am not so sure, I think it needs to be closely looked at. Another incident reported from someone who was in the SC2 esports scene: . From the twitlonger it sounds like Morhaime was very well aware of Afrasiabi's behavior and actions. Also from this recent article(note sure if true or not so of course has to be evaluated for accuracy) https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/07/blizzard-confirms-developer-named-in-lawsuit-was-removed-for-misconduct/ Afrasiabi was fired not too long after Morhaime left (perspective if this has been going on since 2010 - 9 years and then he's fired in just one year after his boss leaves). I am not outright condemning Morhaime but it certainly seems as though he may have been part of this picture at least in coverup mode and did jump ship once California started to go into full blown investigation mode. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
I also find it difficult to believe he had no idea an investigation was going to be taking place. A state-sponsored investigation doesn't happen out of nowhere, and in fact probably only happens when the people who came to executives like Mike realized they weren't being listened to. If he took action in the first place it could've been avoided. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 01 2021 00:50 cha0 wrote: I am not so sure, I think it needs to be closely looked at. Another incident reported from someone who was in the SC2 esports scene: https://twitter.com/Treasureeeee/status/1419684879978176518 . From the twitlonger it sounds like Morhaime was very well aware of Afrasiabi's behavior and actions. Also from this recent article(note sure if true or not so of course has to be evaluated for accuracy) https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/07/blizzard-confirms-developer-named-in-lawsuit-was-removed-for-misconduct/ Afrasiabi was fired not too long after Morhaime left (perspective if this has been going on since 2010 - 9 years and then he's fired in just one year after his boss leaves). I am not outright condemning Morhaime but it certainly seems as though he may have been part of this picture at least in coverup mode and did jump ship once California started to go into full blown investigation mode. Look it's a hard IF for me with Mike as to how aware he was of this situation. It's possible for sure I'm not going to say it's not. I've met Mike, he seems like a genuinely good guy, so when the court releases evidence that he didn't do anything to put a stop to behavior that he was aware of I'm going to be sad and disappointed in him, but not before that. What I CAN say without a moment of hesitation is that this lawsuit and the behavior it is describing had NOTHING to do with why he left the company. That can even be seen as a bad thing depending how you look at it. He was being pushed out of Blizzard for years as it became more and more corporatized and the board of suits that wanted to make money above all else started making decisions that became more and more "un-Blizzard-like" as the years went on. The drop off in quality with World of Warcraft as well as numerous other complete disasters like W3 Reforged is just evidence of how far the company has dropped in terms of being the company we grew up on. Mike left for THOSE reasons, not because of anything described in this lawsuit. How much he was aware of, or contributed to the problems this lawsuit lays out is unclear. He's being vocally repentant and supportive on twitter which I appreciate, so until I hear from California how much evidence they have on how much he knew I am going to be on his side. He's the only one here that I'm defending too. I don't have any defense for Alex Afrasiabi, he was fired when he was probably for reasons that have to do with this lawsuit, I don't know but I'm not giving him ANY of the benefit of the doubt that I'm giving Mike. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
I would also highlight for emphasis that Mike Morhaime was consistently present in Anne's story linked above, where Alex Afrasiabi repeatedly harasses and assaults her. He was in the room for most of that, definitely enough to know that it was happening, and at times close enough to have said something to Alex or Anne personally as the assaults were taking place, if he didn't condone that behavior. Nobody suffered consequences for what happened to Anne that night. All the big boys knew. Mike knew. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16710 Posts
On August 01 2021 06:21 NewSunshine wrote:the behavior that prompted this one had been going on basically since Blizzard's inception, so there's no way he didn't know what was going on. What behaviour? Who were the female employees when Morhaime, Adham, and Pierce started the company ? looking at old photos it appeared there were zero female employees. Bob Fitch brought his newborn baby to work when he was working on SC1. Hard to envision Fitch bringing his new wife and newborn around a work place with sexual harassment. Blizzard has 9000 employees. It is very rare for any group of 9000 to have zero total idiots. As many Americans have criminal records as college diplomas. On top of that, there are lots of Americans who are criminals without having a criminal record. I fully expect any company of 9000 people to employ a few criminals in their group. The video game industry has been super shadey for 40+ years. Same shit... different decade. | ||
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cha0
Canada504 Posts
On August 01 2021 01:09 Vindicare605 wrote: Look it's a hard IF for me with Mike as to how aware he was of this situation. It's possible for sure I'm not going to say it's not. I've met Mike, he seems like a genuinely good guy, so when the court releases evidence that he didn't do anything to put a stop to behavior that he was aware of I'm going to be sad and disappointed in him, but not before that. What I CAN say without a moment of hesitation is that this lawsuit and the behavior it is describing had NOTHING to do with why he left the company. That can even be seen as a bad thing depending how you look at it. He was being pushed out of Blizzard for years as it became more and more corporatized and the board of suits that wanted to make money above all else started making decisions that became more and more "un-Blizzard-like" as the years went on. The drop off in quality with World of Warcraft as well as numerous other complete disasters like W3 Reforged is just evidence of how far the company has dropped in terms of being the company we grew up on. Mike left for THOSE reasons, not because of anything described in this lawsuit. How much he was aware of, or contributed to the problems this lawsuit lays out is unclear. He's being vocally repentant and supportive on twitter which I appreciate, so until I hear from California how much evidence they have on how much he knew I am going to be on his side. He's the only one here that I'm defending too. I don't have any defense for Alex Afrasiabi, he was fired when he was probably for reasons that have to do with this lawsuit, I don't know but I'm not giving him ANY of the benefit of the doubt that I'm giving Mike. Did he personally tell you this or do you have a direct source to back up Morhaime leaving solely due to corporatization? Here is a plausible scenario: Morhaime disliked the corporatization going on and planned to leave in a few years and then start his new venture to make the next generation of great games. Then he found out about this investigation that was going on and how bad it looked and decided to leave immediately and begin his new venture before the investigation completed and went public since leaving after the investigation would make his new venture much harder to start. Side note: Does anyone know if Jeff Kaplan has made any comment? He always struck me as the nicest guy but the timing of his departure(extremely abrupt in the middle of OW2 development) looks pretty bad especially as he was also one of the main people on WoW and project Titan along with Afrasiabi. In fact if I remember correctly they were also both hired onto the WoW team based on being Everquest guild leaders. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway697 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On August 01 2021 13:01 JimmyJRaynor wrote: What behaviour? Who were the female employees when Morhaime, Adham, and Pierce started the company ? looking at old photos it appeared there were zero female employees. Bob Fitch brought his newborn baby to work when he was working on SC1. Hard to envision Fitch bringing his new wife and newborn around a work place with sexual harassment. Blizzard has 9000 employees. It is very rare for any group of 9000 to have zero total idiots. As many Americans have criminal records as college diplomas. On top of that, there are lots of Americans who are criminals without having a criminal record. I fully expect any company of 9000 people to employ a few criminals in their group. The video game industry has been super shadey for 40+ years. Same shit... different decade. I'm really not interested in your excuses. Blizzard leadership has been shown to be almost exclusively shit human beings who treat women like shit. Don't enter the conversation with "but that's just how it is". It's not a good look. Also, thank you for correcting the record and pointing out that Blizzard had 0 female employees in the very beginning. I'm not sure it makes the point you think it does, but you do you. On August 01 2021 19:11 Timebon3s wrote: We need proof to back up people being good, but when they're accused of doing something bad we don't need any proof. nice Did you miss the 2 year investigation that preceded all of this news? Or do you need to see criminal charges before you believe a victim over someone with power? | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
Secondly, I really don't think all the assumptions made in this thread are helping anybody and can lead to a speculative sh*tshow, that can get toxic really fast. I hope that eventually enough evidence and testimonies will lead to a fair trial for all parties involved, especially the victims and that in the end justice will be served... man that really sounded more like a political statement than I originally intended. But considering the sensitive nature of the subject matter, I think that's appropriate. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway697 Posts
On August 01 2021 22:20 NewSunshine wrote: I'm really not interested in your excuses. Blizzard leadership has been shown to be almost exclusively shit human beings who treat women like shit. Don't enter the conversation with "but that's just how it is". It's not a good look. Also, thank you for correcting the record and pointing out that Blizzard had 0 female employees in the very beginning. I'm not sure it makes the point you think it does, but you do you. Did you miss the 2 year investigation that preceded all of this news? Or do you need to see criminal charges before you believe a victim over someone with power? Well when we are speculating about Mike Morhaimes involvement, I consider him innocent until proven guilty | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25339 Posts
On August 02 2021 02:29 Timebon3s wrote: Well when we are speculating about Mike Morhaimes involvement, I consider him innocent until proven guilty Innocent until proven guilty and ‘he’s a nice guy, he couldn’t have known about this’ are different, and not even that subtly. But yes. I don’t feel I have sufficient detail to know how much or otherwise a higher up in a huge studio has about goings on down the chain. It’s equally plausible to me that he turned a blind eye and was fully aware as it is that he knew nothing and was insulated by layers of personnel. Authoritative statements either way, I dunno I don’t feel they can really be substantiated, at least not with what’s publicly known. Probably why the state has spent quite some time in preparing this case, as they do have much higher burdens of proof etc. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8080 Posts
If Mike Morhaime didn't know about what was going on within his own company, does that really mean he's off the hook? His job was literally to know about these things (among much more, of course), and not knowing about them meant he did such a terrible job it borders on negligence. He actively ran a company which fostered this kind of environment, and not knowing about it isn't necessarily a valid excuse. To me, he's guilty either way, whether he knew about it or not. The question is only on whether it was due to malice or incompetence | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25339 Posts
On August 02 2021 03:09 Excludos wrote: What if I twist the argument a little bit for you guys: If Mike Morhaime didn't know about what was going on within his own company, does that really mean he's off the hook? His job was literally to know about these things (among much more, of course), and not knowing about them meant he did such a terrible job it borders on negligence. He actively ran a company which fostered this kind of environment, and not knowing about it isn't necessarily a valid excuse. To me, he's guilty either way, whether he knew about it or not. The question is only on whether it was due to malice or incompetence I’d certainly agree with that, within reason and awaiting what emerges from this. You get the big bucks for a reason, but greater responsibility and accountability (should) be part of the other side of that coin. If you’re high up the chain of a giant corporation and some singular office somewhere has a terrible work environment, that gets complaints escalated and is dealt with, the structure you sit on top of is doing its job and I wouldn’t personally fault a CEO for not knowing of the activities of said office. If it’s across a fair chunk of your company and sits unresolved to the degree this has escalated, you’ve dropped the ball somewhere. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway697 Posts
Imagine having 9000 employees. Yeah, it's his job to know these things but ffs he is not guilty of sexual harassment just because he is a boss. | ||
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StalkyBear
55 Posts
So you met the guy once and believe whatever fleeting impression you may have gleaned from your chance passing and now its suddenly more likely to you that Mike is innocent and the people who worked directly with him are lying? Josh Allen@devolore "If I'd known this was happening I would have stopped it" says the man who was told repeatedly that it was happening and did nothing to stop it Josh Allen@devolore I've refrained from giving my own comments on the situation at Actiblizz because frankly, there are more important people you should be listening to right now. But that statement from a certain former leader was 100% bullshit and I'm furious about it. He knew. He did nothing. Cher Scarlett @cherthedev As hard as this is, and knowing I'll never work in games again: Mike was directly responsible for the chain reaction of events that got me nearly fired for cc'ing him about Tia Zimmerman threatening me with violence for contacting emergency dispatch when she threatened suicide. 2:25 PM · Jul 24, 2021 This is just the teeniest tip of the iceberg. if you believe mike was innocent in all this you are naive af. | ||
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