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On June 14 2025 22:48 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 22:43 Nebuchad wrote:On June 14 2025 20:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 14 2025 18:51 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 17:55 Legan wrote:
if they trigger nuclear strikes on their cities Wanted to specifically highlight this part because it’s important for people, including you, to see exactly how broken your brain is. You’re describing Iran as putting a nuclear warhead on a missile, fueling it, targeting it at an Israeli city, and then launching it. The words you’re using to describe that process are Israel pulling the trigger to strike their own cities. You never seem to point this out when people blame Hamas for Israel starving and bombing Palestinians. In fact I'm pretty sure you have blamed Hamas for Israel bombing and starving Palestinians, many times. Can we agree that this assigning of blame depending on whatever point someone feels like making is a poor rhetorical trick when blame is shared all around. It makes the most sense to assign responsibility for actions that were directly initiated by that party. For example, Israel is entirely responsible for denying aid and starving the population of Gaza, just as Iran or whoever would be responsible if they nuked Israel. The worst thing with KwarK is that he used to know better, he has posts explaining literally all of this to others before october 2023. It's also, like, not rocket science, you know. Hamas is responsible for the people it kills, Iran is responsible for the people it kills, Israel is responsible for the people it kills. That's how killing works. But suddenly we have to have this tedious dance where a government who has like hundreds of genocidal quotes attributed to it is killing a large amount of people and going for more wars, but maybe the responsibility is on the people being killed because they didn't react correctly to 75 years of oppression of Palestinians. Extremely silly, and depraved. Are you suggesting that when a major world event happened Kwark's perspective changed based on the new information. What a monster.
It's not about being a monster, it's about being moronic. If your logic worked before, I would expect your logic to still work after, just with a different conclusion. You can't unlearn how things work.
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The major issue I have with the rhetoric of people in this thread is claiming people who have issues with Israel's conduct are broken brained when the same people leveling these kind of accusations are the ones that decided that what Hamas did on October 7th gives Israel free reign to do whatever kind of violence and escalations.
This kind of blank check is pretty insane to me, and I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand, no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same and no amount of lashing out will change this.
The ballistic missiles coming down on Tel-Aviv should be a hint enough, but this escalation is not making Israel more safe. Even if Iran depletes their stockpiles and achieves nothing with them, they will learn and move on with more asymmetrical warfare, so in all likelihood we'll see more terrorist attacks, both in and around Israel as well as attacks all across the world, what Israel is doing and continuing to do is making itself and the world a less safe space, and you guys can all explain to us how we are idiots for condemning that and comparing it to other wars in order to try to illustrate how fucked up it is, it doesn't change the fact that what you are doing is to continually provide cover for Nethyanahu and his genocidal buddies attempt to stay in power.
That is really not that different from the posters in the other thread saying that every fascist escalation that Trump does is justified by failures of the previous administration and by the "invasion" of immigrants which is "a threat to US sovereignty" that appears to be their October 7th.
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On June 14 2025 17:55 Legan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 17:28 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 16:00 Legan wrote:
If the collapse happens, I would hope that you would heavily blame Israel for causing the suffering of the people, but I highly doubt that. It will be just another case, nothing wrong done and no consequences. The Iranian government has actively pursued conflict with Israel, a country with which they have no overlapping or conflicting interests, as a matter of policy. They’re sovereign, they’re not children, they’re allowed to be fully responsible for their choice to start a war and then lose it. Every day Iran wakes up and decides that continuing this war is something they want to do and yet only Israel bares responsibility? And the same applies to Israel regarding the Palestinian genocide, right? They are not children, right? They know what they are doing and what happens to people when they do not have food and their homes are bombed to ruins, right? They also know that if they trigger nuclear strikes on their cities, it is because they decided not to give any other options to their opposition? Nothing else seems to stop them, so surely it is understandable that the opposition takes their only chance to stop them, just like this is taking the risk to prevent Iran from getting nukes.
You are dehumanizing Iranians. Please try to imagine the people leading Iran are the same species as you. I assure you it’s true. All the things you are able to see about this situation, they can see it too. They are aware of the six day war. They are aware Israel could never occupy Iran even if they wanted to. Iran understands they are not at risk of being conquered. You are treating them like they are suffering from schizophrenia.
Imagine yourself as the leader of Iran right now. Would you say “keep going, this is a good use of human lives and resources”? You wouldn’t.
Israel has air superiority from western Iran all the way to Tehran right now. If Iran did what Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria have all done, they’d be in a much better position. Pretending Iran doesn’t have agency isn’t doing them any favors.
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United States42778 Posts
On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand
Ok I guess?
On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same
Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence.
Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone.
What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?"
Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you.
On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice.
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Iran problem getting solved real quick.
Fuck Mullahs.
And Fuck the CIA for bringing them to power.
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On June 15 2025 00:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand Ok I guess? Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence. Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone. What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?" Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you. On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice.
Iran hasn't really done anything to Israel since the last exchange, they have pursued peaceful resolution regarding the alleged main reason why Israel attacked them, their nuclear program, after 7 years and Israel made sure that never happens by doing these strikes.
It really goes to show how weak your arguments are when you feel the need to continuously insult instead of addressing anything else that I wrote.
We get it, Israel can do whatever the fuck they want and they are justified to do it because Iranians are monsters who want them dead, just like they are justified in murdering everyone in Gaza because anyone there might be Hamas and how they are justified in taking territory from Syria and Lebanon because "security", it's never territorial expansion and aggression.
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On June 15 2025 02:41 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2025 00:37 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand Ok I guess? On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence. Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone. What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?" Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you. On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice. Iran hasn't really done anything to Israel since the last exchange, they have pursued peaceful resolution regarding the alleged main reason why Israel attacked them, their nuclear program, after 7 years and Israel made sure that never happens by doing these strikes. It really goes to show how weak your arguments are when you feel the need to continuously insult instead of addressing anything else that I wrote. We get it, Israel can do whatever the fuck they want and they are justified to do it because Iranians are monsters who want them dead, just like they are justified in murdering everyone in Gaza because anyone there might be Hamas and how they are justified in taking territory from Syria and Lebanon because "security", it's never territorial expansion and aggression.
There seems to be such a disconnect in perception of events it might be easier to approach it from this angle: consider how the last 2 days have gone for Iran. Now consider the extent to which they have yielded to Israel in spite of that. A foreign nation having uncontested air superiority within your capital is generally considered an extreme disaster and the point at which you throw in the towel. Iran not offering to discontinue their nuclear ambitions in spite of all that says a lot. What do you think it says?
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On June 15 2025 03:54 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2025 02:41 Jankisa wrote:On June 15 2025 00:37 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand Ok I guess? On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence. Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone. What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?" Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you. On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice. Iran hasn't really done anything to Israel since the last exchange, they have pursued peaceful resolution regarding the alleged main reason why Israel attacked them, their nuclear program, after 7 years and Israel made sure that never happens by doing these strikes. It really goes to show how weak your arguments are when you feel the need to continuously insult instead of addressing anything else that I wrote. We get it, Israel can do whatever the fuck they want and they are justified to do it because Iranians are monsters who want them dead, just like they are justified in murdering everyone in Gaza because anyone there might be Hamas and how they are justified in taking territory from Syria and Lebanon because "security", it's never territorial expansion and aggression. There seems to be such a disconnect in perception of events it might be easier to approach it from this angle: consider how the last 2 days have gone for Iran. Now consider the extent to which they have yielded to Israel in spite of that. A foreign nation having uncontested air superiority within your capital is generally considered an extreme disaster and the point at which you throw in the towel. Iran not offering to discontinue their nuclear ambitions in spite of all that says a lot. What do you think it says?
It could simply mean they don't believe there is a desirable future for them without having nuclear weapons as a shield. I am absolutely not of the opinion that they should have them, but it really isn't very hard to find reasons other than "they want to glass israel, even if it costs their lives" for why they might not make that offer.
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United States42778 Posts
The frustrating thing is that Iran was complying with the Obama era multilateral agreement that had China/Russia/US/EU all agreed to work collectively to wreck Iran’s economy if they continued enrichment. The Iran hybrid war vs Israel was still an issue but the nuclear crisis was solved. Trump blew up the deal that Iran was complying with and in doing so blew up the international coalition that was enforcing the deal. That is what has allowed Iran to resume enrichment. Then he took up threatening to invade Iran as a hobby which is a pretty huge incentive for Iran to get a nuke.
They’re in a tough spot because Trump is threatening war if they don’t get a nuke and Israel is threatening war if they do. A weapon that they need for defensive purposes vs one opponent is identical to an offensive threat vs another.
But this could all be avoided if they just made peace with Israel which would require zero concessions on their part.
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On June 15 2025 03:54 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2025 02:41 Jankisa wrote:On June 15 2025 00:37 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand Ok I guess? On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence. Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone. What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?" Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you. On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice. Iran hasn't really done anything to Israel since the last exchange, they have pursued peaceful resolution regarding the alleged main reason why Israel attacked them, their nuclear program, after 7 years and Israel made sure that never happens by doing these strikes. It really goes to show how weak your arguments are when you feel the need to continuously insult instead of addressing anything else that I wrote. We get it, Israel can do whatever the fuck they want and they are justified to do it because Iranians are monsters who want them dead, just like they are justified in murdering everyone in Gaza because anyone there might be Hamas and how they are justified in taking territory from Syria and Lebanon because "security", it's never territorial expansion and aggression. There seems to be such a disconnect in perception of events it might be easier to approach it from this angle: consider how the last 2 days have gone for Iran. Now consider the extent to which they have yielded to Israel in spite of that. A foreign nation having uncontested air superiority within your capital is generally considered an extreme disaster and the point at which you throw in the towel. Iran not offering to discontinue their nuclear ambitions in spite of all that says a lot. What do you think it says?
I mean, come on, we are all obviously at least well enough read on history to understand that that's not how things happen, despite the regime in Iran being a fucked up theocracy (and the fact that USA is basically the reason for Iran's political trajectory over last half a century is irrelevant) they still enjoy support from majority of the population, just because they got badly embarrassed by Israel's air superiority the population won't (in their brainwashed state) want to throw in the towel, they want and will want revenge, by any means necessary.
If we are talking about history, there is one thing that has been true and proven right over and over again, when war starts there is the "rally around the flag" sentiment, it's always helpful to the authoritarians in charge, it's true for Israel and it will be true for Iran, the failure of people defending Israel's decision making when this is obviously the primary motivation behind the attack and will in all likelihood result in a more aggressive and belligerent Iran is extremely confusing to me.
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United States42778 Posts
On June 15 2025 05:26 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2025 03:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2025 02:41 Jankisa wrote:On June 15 2025 00:37 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand Ok I guess? On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence. Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone. What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?" Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you. On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice. Iran hasn't really done anything to Israel since the last exchange, they have pursued peaceful resolution regarding the alleged main reason why Israel attacked them, their nuclear program, after 7 years and Israel made sure that never happens by doing these strikes. It really goes to show how weak your arguments are when you feel the need to continuously insult instead of addressing anything else that I wrote. We get it, Israel can do whatever the fuck they want and they are justified to do it because Iranians are monsters who want them dead, just like they are justified in murdering everyone in Gaza because anyone there might be Hamas and how they are justified in taking territory from Syria and Lebanon because "security", it's never territorial expansion and aggression. There seems to be such a disconnect in perception of events it might be easier to approach it from this angle: consider how the last 2 days have gone for Iran. Now consider the extent to which they have yielded to Israel in spite of that. A foreign nation having uncontested air superiority within your capital is generally considered an extreme disaster and the point at which you throw in the towel. Iran not offering to discontinue their nuclear ambitions in spite of all that says a lot. What do you think it says? I mean, come on, we are all obviously at least well enough read on history to understand that that's not how things happen, despite the regime in Iran being a fucked up theocracy (and the fact that USA is basically the reason for Iran's political trajectory over last half a century is irrelevant) they still enjoy support from majority of the population, just because they got badly embarrassed by Israel's air superiority the population won't (in their brainwashed state) want to throw in the towel, they want and will want revenge, by any means necessary. If we are talking about history, there is one thing that has been true and proven right over and over again, when war starts there is the "rally around the flag" sentiment, it's always helpful to the authoritarians in charge, it's true for Israel and it will be true for Iran, the failure of people defending Israel's decision making when this is obviously the primary motivation behind the attack and will in all likelihood result in a more aggressive and belligerent Iran is extremely confusing to me.
Who here is defending Israel’s decision making?
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On June 15 2025 04:21 Artesimo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2025 03:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2025 02:41 Jankisa wrote:On June 15 2025 00:37 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
I still firmly believe that my idiotic comparisons stand Ok I guess? On June 14 2025 23:25 Jankisa wrote:
no one explaining legitimacy of Israel hitting residential buildings in Teheran in order to kill nuclear scientists in their sleep along with their neighbors would have the same approach to Russia doing the same Ukraine doesn't want anything from Russia other than to be left alone. Russia insists on attacking Ukraine. Ukraine is acting in self defence. Israel likewise wants absolutely nothing from Iran other than to be left alone. What you've done here is switch the parties and then cry out "if it's okay for the defender to act in self defence then why is it not okay for the attacker to attack?" Well, for the reasons that are obvious to any idiot and therefore ought to be obvious to you. On any given day Russia, just like Iran, could make a lasting peace. They actively choose to pursue their wars as a matter of deliberate state policy and so they bear responsibility for that choice. Iran hasn't really done anything to Israel since the last exchange, they have pursued peaceful resolution regarding the alleged main reason why Israel attacked them, their nuclear program, after 7 years and Israel made sure that never happens by doing these strikes. It really goes to show how weak your arguments are when you feel the need to continuously insult instead of addressing anything else that I wrote. We get it, Israel can do whatever the fuck they want and they are justified to do it because Iranians are monsters who want them dead, just like they are justified in murdering everyone in Gaza because anyone there might be Hamas and how they are justified in taking territory from Syria and Lebanon because "security", it's never territorial expansion and aggression. There seems to be such a disconnect in perception of events it might be easier to approach it from this angle: consider how the last 2 days have gone for Iran. Now consider the extent to which they have yielded to Israel in spite of that. A foreign nation having uncontested air superiority within your capital is generally considered an extreme disaster and the point at which you throw in the towel. Iran not offering to discontinue their nuclear ambitions in spite of all that says a lot. What do you think it says? It could simply mean they don't believe there is a desirable future for them without having nuclear weapons as a shield. I am absolutely not of the opinion that they should have them, but it really isn't very hard to find reasons other than "they want to glass israel, even if it costs their lives" for why they might not make that offer.
The situation is evolving so quickly it’s kind of hard to nail down when or if they should tap out.
Looks like Israel is going after the oil, which Biden was always whiny about. And the explosions are getting bigger. Israel officially requested help with the mountain facility. You could argue destroying the mountain facility could be the humane route since it will remove Israel’s justification to continue doing other stuff in the meantime.
The strikes this time appear to be intended to convey impatience with Khomeini. I think the next upgrade is gonna be very tragic.
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I think this was meant like:
Israels governement decides to wage war on a foreign country now to silence any domestic quabble (about Gaza and Westbank, which are domestic problems, even for Netanyahus political opponents).
Any attempt to side with the side of the military/gov that protects israel from close to nuke mullahs who now are hellbent on retaliation...while distancing yourself from Netanyahu's plans to annex gaza and all of the Westbank is just to complicated .. walking the line seems impossible.
In the end, Netanyahus genocidal plan works because the antisemites played along. They did their useless attack and really need to be thrown out of gaza, and the iranians had to make an attempt at the bomb when the international community only had Trump in the end zone who fumbled the deal on purpose, because it wasn't his deal.
So in typcial Trump fashion, promissing there won't be nation building.. the US gets to nation build in Iran very soon.
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On June 15 2025 07:44 KT_Elwood wrote:
I think this was meant like:
Israels governement decides to wage war on a foreign country now to silence any domestic quabble (about Gaza and Westbank, which are domestic problems, even for Netanyahus political opponents).
Any attempt to side with the side of the military/gov that protects israel from close to nuke mullahs who now are hellbent on retaliation...while distancing yourself from Netanyahu's plans to annex gaza and all of the Westbank is just to complicated .. walking the line seems impossible.
In the end, Netanyahus genocidal plan works because the antisemites played along. They did their useless attack and really need to be thrown out of gaza, and the iranians had to make an attempt at the bomb when the international community only had Trump in the end zone who fumbled the deal on purpose, because it wasn't his deal.
So in typcial Trump fashion, promissing there won't be nation building.. the US gets to nation build in Iran very soon.
It’s hard to feel bad for the Iranian government/molitary when they had the easiest possible solution. It is similar to democrats losing to Trump in 2016. The only way to lose was to make 15 consecutive wrong decisions. And they went on to make history by doing exactly that.
I know Mossad is an extremely abnormally effective intelligence organization, but did Iran really have no idea how outgunned they were? After all the stuff with pagers and assassinating the Hamas dipshit in Tehran, how do they not pause for a moment and assume they are a bit outclassed?
So then they go for a nuke? Then their air defenses and air force end up cooked before the Israeli attack even begins. Then they STILL go ahead with a retaliation and maintain their same language about “blah blah they will burn”???
I’ve always wondered if Khomeini really was the jihad dipshit he made himself out to be. I wondered if it was just optics and politics. Nope, dude really thinks 72 virgins are sitting in some clouds waiting for his jihad to finish up.
Edit: not fixing the “molitary” typo. I realized it’s actually perfect LOL
Edit2: wow and this post was written before hearing about the 100+ Israeli casualty missile that hit Tel Aviv. I am assuming everyone agrees Iranian leadership has decided to do all the damage they can while they are still technically a government?
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Khamenei. Khomeini has been dead for decades. Apparently Iran was taken completely by surprise because they thought Israel would not attack before the round of talks that were supposed to take place today.
Iran’s senior leaders had been planning for more than a week for an Israeli attack should nuclear talks with the United States fail. But they made one enormous miscalculation.
They never expected Israel to strike before another round of talks that had been scheduled for this coming Sunday in Oman, officials close to Iran’s leadership said on Friday. They dismissed reports that an attack was imminent as Israeli propaganda meant to pressure Iran to make concessions on its nuclear program in those talks.
Perhaps because of that complacency, precautions that had been planned were ignored, the officials said.
This account of how Iranian officials were preparing before Israel conducted widespread attacks across their country on Friday, and how they reacted in the aftermath, is based on interviews with half a dozen senior Iranian officials and two members of the Revolutionary Guards. They all asked not to be named to discuss sensitive information.
Officials said that the night of Israel’s attack, senior military commanders did not shelter in safe houses and instead stayed in their own homes, a fateful decision. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the commander of the Revolutionary Guards’ aerospace unit, and his senior staff ignored a directive against congregating in one location. They held an emergency war meeting at a military base in Tehran and were killed when Israel struck the base.
www.nytimes.com
Edit: I don't think a country can let an attack on the scale of what we've seen go unanswered. Iran is also not Hezbollah. They're much more capable so the retaliatory strikes will probably do much more damage in the future.
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On June 15 2025 10:57 Mohdoo wrote:
Edit2: wow and this post was written before hearing about the 100+ Israeli casualty missile that hit Tel Aviv. I am assuming everyone agrees Iranian leadership has decided to do all the damage they can while they are still technically a government?
Not really, civilian casualties are all part of the game.
Both sides have escalation options they are not using just yet.
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On June 14 2025 22:43 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 20:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 14 2025 18:51 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 17:55 Legan wrote:
if they trigger nuclear strikes on their cities Wanted to specifically highlight this part because it’s important for people, including you, to see exactly how broken your brain is. You’re describing Iran as putting a nuclear warhead on a missile, fueling it, targeting it at an Israeli city, and then launching it. The words you’re using to describe that process are Israel pulling the trigger to strike their own cities. You never seem to point this out when people blame Hamas for Israel starving and bombing Palestinians. In fact I'm pretty sure you have blamed Hamas for Israel bombing and starving Palestinians, many times. Can we agree that this assigning of blame depending on whatever point someone feels like making is a poor rhetorical trick when blame is shared all around. It makes the most sense to assign responsibility for actions that were directly initiated by that party. For example, Israel is entirely responsible for denying aid and starving the population of Gaza, just as Iran or whoever would be responsible if they nuked Israel. The worst thing with KwarK is that he used to know better, he has posts explaining literally all of this to others before october 2023. It's also, like, not rocket science, you know. Hamas is responsible for the people it kills, Iran is responsible for the people it kills, Israel is responsible for the people it kills. That's how killing works. But suddenly we have to have this tedious dance where a government who has like hundreds of genocidal quotes attributed to it is killing a large amount of people and going for more wars, but maybe the responsibility is on the people being killed because they didn't react correctly to 75 years of oppression of Palestinians. Extremely silly, and depraved.
See post below
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On June 15 2025 14:31 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 22:43 Nebuchad wrote:On June 14 2025 20:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 14 2025 18:51 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 17:55 Legan wrote:
if they trigger nuclear strikes on their cities Wanted to specifically highlight this part because it’s important for people, including you, to see exactly how broken your brain is. You’re describing Iran as putting a nuclear warhead on a missile, fueling it, targeting it at an Israeli city, and then launching it. The words you’re using to describe that process are Israel pulling the trigger to strike their own cities. You never seem to point this out when people blame Hamas for Israel starving and bombing Palestinians. In fact I'm pretty sure you have blamed Hamas for Israel bombing and starving Palestinians, many times. Can we agree that this assigning of blame depending on whatever point someone feels like making is a poor rhetorical trick when blame is shared all around. It makes the most sense to assign responsibility for actions that were directly initiated by that party. For example, Israel is entirely responsible for denying aid and starving the population of Gaza, just as Iran or whoever would be responsible if they nuked Israel. The worst thing with KwarK is that he used to know better, he has posts explaining literally all of this to others before october 2023. It's also, like, not rocket science, you know. Hamas is responsible for the people it kills, Iran is responsible for the people it kills, Israel is responsible for the people it kills. That's how killing works. But suddenly we have to have this tedious dance where a government who has like hundreds of genocidal quotes attributed to it is killing a large amount of people and going for more wars, but maybe the responsibility is on the people being killed because they didn't react correctly to 75 years of oppression of Palestinians. Extremely silly, and depraved. Intellectualy simplicit disguised as moral clarity. You are stating a technical truth, which is the worst kind of truth. Am I technically at fault when I choose to defend my home against a Burghardt
I'm mostly just quoting old posts by Kwark. Would you like to tell us more about the palestinian question and how they create problems in every country they're in which is why Israel has to deal with them, let's see how good you are at moral clarity
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On June 14 2025 22:43 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2025 20:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 14 2025 18:51 KwarK wrote:On June 14 2025 17:55 Legan wrote:
if they trigger nuclear strikes on their cities Wanted to specifically highlight this part because it’s important for people, including you, to see exactly how broken your brain is. You’re describing Iran as putting a nuclear warhead on a missile, fueling it, targeting it at an Israeli city, and then launching it. The words you’re using to describe that process are Israel pulling the trigger to strike their own cities. You never seem to point this out when people blame Hamas for Israel starving and bombing Palestinians. In fact I'm pretty sure you have blamed Hamas for Israel bombing and starving Palestinians, many times. Can we agree that this assigning of blame depending on whatever point someone feels like making is a poor rhetorical trick when blame is shared all around. It makes the most sense to assign responsibility for actions that were directly initiated by that party. For example, Israel is entirely responsible for denying aid and starving the population of Gaza, just as Iran or whoever would be responsible if they nuked Israel. The worst thing with KwarK is that he used to know better, he has posts explaining literally all of this to others before october 2023. It's also, like, not rocket science, you know. Hamas is responsible for the people it kills, Iran is responsible for the people it kills, Israel is responsible for the people it kills. That's how killing works. But suddenly we have to have this tedious dance where a government who has like hundreds of genocidal quotes attributed to it is killing a large amount of people and going for more wars, but maybe the responsibility is on the people being killed because they didn't react correctly to 75 years of oppression of Palestinians. Extremely silly, and depraved.
Intellectualy simplicity disguised as moral clarity, which ignores the immense complexity of this context.
You are stating a technical truth, which is the worst kind of truth. Am I technically at fault when I choose to defend my home against a burglar who gets injured/killed? Yes, but that is why self defense exists.
To compare the attacks on Israel by religious zealots carrying out a Jihad because of religious fundamentalism with Israel being forced to defend its right to exist is context-wise utterly bonkers.
The strawman directed at KwarK (or did he indeed say that Palestinians are responsible for their plight because their reaction was off for 75 years towards oppression? Perhaps a quote can help) is so obvious, that I have a hard time imagining how you came to the conclusion that pressing the post-button was a sound idea.
He never violated a universal truth. Context, intentions and scale matter in the honest evaluation of any issue (well, at least if you try to look at it through a mostly neutral lense).
Iran chose this war. Hamas chose this war. Is Israel responsible for the killings it commits? Yes, but they were forced into them, although one can obviously talk about disproportionality, the committed war crimes that happen along the way and Israel not doing enough in other areas (illegal settlements etc.)
Still: giving up the hostages and accepting Israel as a country. These are key issues to forward this situation as well as an absolute baseline to ever achieve progress. But religious fanatics don't want this conflict to end.
To include a notion about hundreds of genocidal quotes of which the vast majority probably have been taken out of context by ministers of a government and not official government statements is simply the cherry on top, as most of the time when you reply in your cynical, one-sided way.
Your meantime reply between my posts:
It is obvious that you are a rage-baiter and don't want to talk about context.
I never posed a "Palestinian problem" and I don't seek a Palestinian solution, no matter how often you accuse me of it by mis-contextualizing by statements.
But again: isn't it a reality that nations are reluctant to accept Palestinian refugees? And that one of the reasons is that they caused political, military and social instability and chaos in Jordan and Lebanon and to a lesser degree Syria in the past?
I never made the point that this is because of the fact that they are Palestinians though.. this is a reflection of their statelessness and the surrounding circumstances, but these issues have not changed so far. So we still need to confront the problem that surrounding nations are reluctant to accept Palestinian refugees, no?
To be clear once again: This is a problem the Palestinians face, not because they are Palestinians but because of the contextual history of the region.
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EPT
