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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
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"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60197150
There has been a 77% rise in the number of children needing specialist treatment for severe mental health crisis, analysis for the BBC shows.
Some 409,347 under-18s were referred to the NHS in England for specialist care for issues such as suicidal thoughts and self harm between April and October 2021.
Head teachers also report a huge rise in less severe mental health issues.
The government plans 400 mental health teams to support schools by 2023.
The NHS Digital referrals data analysed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists for the BBC, includes the most serious and urgent cases where the child faces an immediate risk from an eating disorder, self-harm or suicidal thoughts. In the same six month period in 2019, there were 230,591 referrals for under-18s.
We chose to see potential mental health crisis as a result of lockdown as 'unknown consequences', which allowed us to make this awful sacrifice to save the lives of others.
Its important that these consequences are looked at honestly. It was a choice most of us decided to make. Is it fair to do this to a generation in order to save lives?
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On February 05 2022 01:53 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60197150Show nested quote +There has been a 77% rise in the number of children needing specialist treatment for severe mental health crisis, analysis for the BBC shows.
Some 409,347 under-18s were referred to the NHS in England for specialist care for issues such as suicidal thoughts and self harm between April and October 2021.
Head teachers also report a huge rise in less severe mental health issues.
The government plans 400 mental health teams to support schools by 2023.
The NHS Digital referrals data analysed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists for the BBC, includes the most serious and urgent cases where the child faces an immediate risk from an eating disorder, self-harm or suicidal thoughts. In the same six month period in 2019, there were 230,591 referrals for under-18s. We chose to see potential mental health crisis as a result of lockdown as 'unknown consequences', which allowed us to make this awful sacrifice to save the lives of others. Its important that these consequences are looked at honestly. It was a choice most of us decided to make. Is it fair to do this to a generation in order to save lives?
As opposed to seeing the same generation lose parents and see sections of society collapse? Yes it is fair to do this.
You can't just equate "ah jeez we shouldn't have done this" without considering the real reasons why those things were done.
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Northern Ireland23317 Posts
On February 05 2022 01:53 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60197150Show nested quote +There has been a 77% rise in the number of children needing specialist treatment for severe mental health crisis, analysis for the BBC shows.
Some 409,347 under-18s were referred to the NHS in England for specialist care for issues such as suicidal thoughts and self harm between April and October 2021.
Head teachers also report a huge rise in less severe mental health issues.
The government plans 400 mental health teams to support schools by 2023.
The NHS Digital referrals data analysed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists for the BBC, includes the most serious and urgent cases where the child faces an immediate risk from an eating disorder, self-harm or suicidal thoughts. In the same six month period in 2019, there were 230,591 referrals for under-18s. We chose to see potential mental health crisis as a result of lockdown as 'unknown consequences', which allowed us to make this awful sacrifice to save the lives of others. Its important that these consequences are looked at honestly. It was a choice most of us decided to make. Is it fair to do this to a generation in order to save lives?
From personal experience we were not giving much of a collective shit before Covid in this domain, with some of the most vulnerable in society. There were already funding problems in dealing with a non-Covid baseline level of mental health problems.
Not a charge I’m levelling at you but I have my suspicions this is just a rationale people throw out to justify them not wanting restrictions for other reasons.
Yes that is a consideration and a choice that was made, with negative consequences, but there’s no real course of action that doesn’t have some negatives attached to them.
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On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that.
it was never about 100% vaccination. The solutions we are involving now don't include that. The focus of whats being done hasn't changed from march almost two years ago.
Stop letting people lie to you and just accepting the lies.
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On February 05 2022 05:03 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 01:53 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60197150There has been a 77% rise in the number of children needing specialist treatment for severe mental health crisis, analysis for the BBC shows.
Some 409,347 under-18s were referred to the NHS in England for specialist care for issues such as suicidal thoughts and self harm between April and October 2021.
Head teachers also report a huge rise in less severe mental health issues.
The government plans 400 mental health teams to support schools by 2023.
The NHS Digital referrals data analysed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists for the BBC, includes the most serious and urgent cases where the child faces an immediate risk from an eating disorder, self-harm or suicidal thoughts. In the same six month period in 2019, there were 230,591 referrals for under-18s. We chose to see potential mental health crisis as a result of lockdown as 'unknown consequences', which allowed us to make this awful sacrifice to save the lives of others. Its important that these consequences are looked at honestly. It was a choice most of us decided to make. Is it fair to do this to a generation in order to save lives? As opposed to seeing the same generation lose parents and see sections of society collapse? Yes it is fair to do this. You can't just equate "ah jeez we shouldn't have done this" without considering the real reasons why those things were done.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have done it. I'm saying the consequences could be alot worse than people are currently seeing. Generally speaking, I accepted the lockdown.
However, the way decisions were made and communicated needs looking at, because i think alot of people knew about the mental health consequences of lockdown, but didn't really seem to want to talk about it much. Sure, there were some articles on news sites, but there wasn't a huge drive during lockdown to help these kids, because no-one was clearly told 'this is going to affect the mental health of vulnerable kids and something needs doing about it'.
The people in charge of enacting lockdown were far too busy defending and redefending their decisions - mostly due to the toxic political climate - to worry about the negative consequences of them, and how to mitigate them.
On February 05 2022 07:30 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 01:53 Jockmcplop wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60197150There has been a 77% rise in the number of children needing specialist treatment for severe mental health crisis, analysis for the BBC shows.
Some 409,347 under-18s were referred to the NHS in England for specialist care for issues such as suicidal thoughts and self harm between April and October 2021.
Head teachers also report a huge rise in less severe mental health issues.
The government plans 400 mental health teams to support schools by 2023.
The NHS Digital referrals data analysed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists for the BBC, includes the most serious and urgent cases where the child faces an immediate risk from an eating disorder, self-harm or suicidal thoughts. In the same six month period in 2019, there were 230,591 referrals for under-18s. We chose to see potential mental health crisis as a result of lockdown as 'unknown consequences', which allowed us to make this awful sacrifice to save the lives of others. Its important that these consequences are looked at honestly. It was a choice most of us decided to make. Is it fair to do this to a generation in order to save lives? From personal experience we were not giving much of a collective shit before Covid in this domain, with some of the most vulnerable in society. There were already funding problems in dealing with a non-Covid baseline level of mental health problems. Not a charge I’m levelling at you but I have my suspicions this is just a rationale people throw out to justify them not wanting restrictions for other reasons. Yes that is a consideration and a choice that was made, with negative consequences, but there’s no real course of action that doesn’t have some negatives attached to them.
Alot of us have been begging governments to take mental health more seriously for a very long time!
I think there needs to be more data and studies into this problem, because the lack of understanding of your average person about mental health conditions and how they work leads to people not realizing how destructive this kind of situation can be.
I would like to know what age range this is affecting. Bear in mind that once someone has a mental health crisis, they are likely to repeat that crisis later in life and struggle with mental health for the rest of their lives.
If we are seeing double the amount of mental health crises now, for kids of a range of ages, then that is going to continue, which is going to lead to huge difficulties for mental health systems across the world for years to come.
I think in the UK, this affords an opportunity for Labour to do what the tories could never do and implement serious mental health reforms, because the system we have here (like in most places the world over) is not fit for purpose.
I wonder how governments are going to react to this news as it keeps on coming. Will they try to minimize or discredit it in order to stick by their decisions, or will they actually do something about it?
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On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not.
Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S.
As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them.
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On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them.
You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it?
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On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it?
Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way.
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On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way.
That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works.
At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit?
Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america.
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On February 05 2022 15:27 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way. That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works. At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit? Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america.
Less money leading to more cases? Exact opposite of what I said.
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On February 05 2022 15:37 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:27 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way. That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works. At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit? Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america. Less money leading to more cases? Exact opposite of what I said.
Yes it is what you said. You think that there is money from the government going to hospitals that is somehow causing more people to get sick from a disease that is less profitable for hospitals to treat than normal operations. That the hospitals getting less money than they're somehow getting from the government will cause less people to get sick.
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On February 05 2022 15:42 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:37 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:27 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way. That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works. At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit? Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america. Less money leading to more cases? Exact opposite of what I said. Yes it is what you said. You think that there is money from the government going to hospitals that is somehow causing more people to get sick from a disease that is less profitable for hospitals to treat than normal operations. That the hospitals getting less money than they're somehow getting from the government will cause less people to get sick.
I never said less money would lead to more cases.
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On February 05 2022 15:50 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:42 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 15:37 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:27 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way. That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works. At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit? Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america. Less money leading to more cases? Exact opposite of what I said. Yes it is what you said. You think that there is money from the government going to hospitals that is somehow causing more people to get sick from a disease that is less profitable for hospitals to treat than normal operations. That the hospitals getting less money than they're somehow getting from the government will cause less people to get sick. I never said less money would lead to more cases.
You said less money would lead to less cases I have established that twice now. Can you expand on the money you think the government is spending now and how this money has an influence on the number of cases from a disease? A disease that costs hospitals more to treat than normal operations.
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On February 05 2022 15:27 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way. That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works. At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit? Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america.
Read the your last line. I never said less money would lead to more cases.
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On February 05 2022 16:01 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 15:27 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 15:17 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 15:09 Sermokala wrote:On February 05 2022 14:20 Nick_54 wrote:On February 05 2022 00:10 JimmiC wrote:On February 04 2022 23:53 mierin wrote:
"If we all just got the vaccine we wouldn't be here" is not a feasible way to think about things. I am vaxxed and boosted, but this reminds me a lot of the "oh if we just had 2 more democratic senators we'd get everything we want!" kind of logic.
100% vaccination is off the table, period. It's time to start looking for solutions that don't involve that. We are, its 100% of people with some immunity which is happening thanks to how contagious Omicron is. Between that and the sensible people that have the combo our hospitals should be able to handle future waves, especially with the increased capacity, pending some awful new variant. Even then with the tech and what we learned variant specific boosters like what the flu shot is that most of those currently vaccinated will take yearly. But numbers do no lie and with this wave (and actually the last but this one is just so clear) if everyone was vaccinated our hospitals would be fine and our government which has been itching to remove all restrictions (unlike the narrative) would have done so. It is just simply fact that restrictions exist because of the unvaccinated. I'm also interested in the US, once the Federal government stops footing the bill for Covid, if they insurance companies will charge more for the unvaxx like they do smokers and so on or not. Personally I think once the fed government stops footing the bill this turns into an endemic and things move toward getting back to how it was before 2020 in the U.S. As for insurance companies I'm sure they'll try to take as much as they can. They'd screw over their own grandma's for another nickel. Bernie is 100% right about them. You think the government not funding basic health services will somehow make the virus less contagiois and less of an impact on the hospital systems ability to treat it? Absolutely its a for profit driven business model. It'll still be as contagious, but less people will be admitted and treated for it without the cash heading their way. That's not how viruses work that's not how any of this works. At what point do you think money comes into people being sick and getting covid? Do you think that there is a giant conspiracy of people that are all keeping to the same story? Do you think people want to go to the hospital and rack up those bills? Do you think that we have universal health care and the nation pays for the hospital visit? Explain how hospitals making less money treating covid leads to more covid cases in america. Read the your last line. I never said less money would lead to more cases.
And I keep saying that yes I know that and that has nothing to do with what I keep asking you. You think less money leads to less cases.
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With the Olympic Games opening, I am very curious about what China's endgame for this pandemic is. For how long can they keep locking themselves in?
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EPT
