Coronavirus and You - Page 580

On January 30 2022 12:21 JimmiC wrote:

You need to read what selection bias is again.

So me and you can both get covid and choose to get tested or not. If me and you both get a milder version who do you think is going to choose to get tested? If you were sick but not needing hospitalization would you get testeaad or would you not want to deal with the isolation or even the inconvience.

Next most "high risk" jobs have vaccine rules that create 99% + vaccination rate, for example and those people have high incedences of risk of catching it then say a job with much lower rates like trucking which has much fewer high risk interactions. Vaccinated people are allowed to go to returaunts, theaters, arenas, malls so on, unvaccinated are not. It would be like looking up that there are way more shark attacks on people who live in Miami then Philly and concluding that it is safer for people from Philly to swim in a tank of sharks then some one from Miami.

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On January 30 2022 23:18 JimmiC wrote:


It does, because they are not filling up the hospitals ICUs or morgues.

If the vaccine does not work, and increases infection rates how do you explain that people without it are 5x-7x more likely to end up in the hospital or ICU?

If doctors and the government are not being forthright about the numbers, why would they show they show the infection rate? Or say we should dig into it? And that 2 shots does not help with infection rate for omicron? These all seem like unwise data to release if you are manipulating it.

Ive told you the logical explaination for the infection rates from experts, id love to hear your logical explaination for hospital rates, icu rates and death rates from the unvaccinated being so much higher from the vaccinated, other than the vaccination working.

On February 01 2022 05:14 Slydie wrote:
It is a proven fact that the vaccines do a surprisingly bad job at preventing transmission of Omnicron. So does natural immunity, as the Delta variant is not closely related to Omnicron, double infection is VERY normal, and can even happen if vaccinated on top of that! For serious illness and death, the story is very different.

There are 2 reasons for requiring vaccines:
#1: Require them in high risk situations as the vaccines should reduce the spread of the virus.
#2: Indirectly forcing people to get the vaccine by making not having them as unpractical as possible.

For Omnicron, policies are made for reason #2, but they are often masked as reason #1. If you do not want the vaccine, that obviously pisses people off. There were already vaccine requirements for all travelers to South-Africa when Omnicron broke out, but needless to say, they did a horrible job at containing that strain. I have still not seen any research confirming that vaccine passports etc. have any direct impact on this pandemic.

If you are conciously trying to make life difficult for unvaccinated to force them to get the shots, you have to be honest about it, and not wrap it in bullshit arguments.

On February 01 2022 05:14 Slydie wrote:
It is a proven fact that the vaccines do a surprisingly bad job at preventing transmission of Omnicron. So does natural immunity, as the Delta variant is not closely related to Omnicron, double infection is VERY normal, and can even happen if vaccinated on top of that! For serious illness and death, the story is very different.

There are 2 reasons for requiring vaccines:
#1: Require them in high risk situations as the vaccines should reduce the spread of the virus.
#2: Indirectly forcing people to get the vaccine by making not having them as unpractical as possible.

For Omnicron, policies are made for reason #2, but they are often masked as reason #1. If you do not want the vaccine, that obviously pisses people off. There were already vaccine requirements for all travelers to South-Africa when Omnicron broke out, but needless to say, they did a horrible job at containing that strain. I have still not seen any research confirming that vaccine passports etc. have any direct impact on this pandemic.

If you are conciously trying to make life difficult for unvaccinated to force them to get the shots, you have to be honest about it, and not wrap it in bullshit arguments.

On February 01 2022 07:09 Sermokala wrote:

There is a third reason for requiring vaccines: They cause less people to die and less people to take up hospital space for everyone else.

Do you think people aren't dieing because so much hospital space is being taken up by people who are too selfish to get something that is free, safe, and convenient to get?


Please tell be a legitimate reason why people don't want to get specifically the covid vaccine and not the list of other vaccines you were mandated to get for the public good as a child?

On February 02 2022 02:43 Slydie wrote:


Come on, man. COVID is a rapidly changing respiratory virus which is not approved for small children, and the effect of vaccinating children for such diseases is highly debatable. Flu shots are not mandatory for kids either.

The vaccine effectiveness against COVID infection already dropped from 94% to ~30%. There are some very good reasons why flu shots are typically reserved for the vulnerable and some HC-workers, COVID shots will just be added to the list, and they can likely even be give the same time. Our immune systems take care of the rest, and we can live with getting knocked out once every 5-10 years.

On February 02 2022 03:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


The covid vaccine can be given to all school-age children though (5 years old, and older), who come in contact with dozens, if not hundreds, of individuals every day, which is far more important than babies/toddlers who have a much more limited number of interactions.

Also, I've never heard of flu shots being reserved for only the vulnerable; that's certainly not true in the United States, where you can walk into just about any pharmacy and get a free flu shot without any sort of check-up or health diagnostic, because we basically have infinitely many doses.

Finally, what do you mean by "effectiveness" when you say "The vaccine effectiveness against COVID infection already dropped from 94% to ~30%." What are these percentages in reference to? Preventing infection? Transmission? Death? Hospitalizations?

On February 02 2022 05:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


It's really weird to read "You're STILL using the argument that we have to vaccinate children because they come into contact with other people?" and then right after that, read that you fully concede that there are infection-related benefits to getting vaccinated, but okay

I was going to completely ignore your last paragraph, as it came off as ridiculous trolling and/or slippery sloping into absurdity, but giving you the benefit of the doubt that you actually believe that this is what I think, I'll respond to it: Although things may change, it seems to be the case that newer variants end up being less deadly. If newer strains continue to be less harmful as covid-19 becomes endemic, then it'll be less impactful to become infected with covid-19. Obviously, it'll be helpful to learn about the effects of long-covid, but as more effective treatments (both proactively and reactively) are researched and developed, we'll likely be able to deal with the virus a lot better, perhaps eventually relegating it to "the scientific and medical communities still recommend that you get your annual flu shot and your annual covid-19 shot, because you'd probably get a little sick if you get infected, and you could spread those viruses to others, but the daily updates of death tolls are long gone". In other words, I'm pretty optimistic that our experts will continue to help us get through this and that covid-19 will become less threatening, not more threatening. I don't see us needing to get vaccinated every 3 months in the future, but also that's irrelevant to the fact that children should already be vaccinated in the present.