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Coronavirus and You - Page 287

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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.

It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.

Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.

This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.

Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better.
Neneu
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway492 Posts
November 18 2020 16:31 GMT
#5721
Hmm perhaps they should try to cooperate with regional chemistry labs/universities, which have them. Doesn't fix the problem, but makes it easier. Could probably rent something from companies like Yara as well.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-18 16:43:04
November 18 2020 16:35 GMT
#5722
Also, there are several vaccines in the works. Moderna's does not require the ultra cold storage and I can't imagine many others opted for one with that unusual requirement.
Moderna said its vaccine is expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 36 to 46 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 days, up from the previous estimate of seven days. The vaccine can remain stable at minus-4 degrees Fahrenheit for up to six months and at room temperature for 24 hours, the company said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-19-vaccine-candidate-94-5-percent-effective-moderna-says-n1247888

Russia has their own and China apparently has four candidates, one of which is approved for emergency use already (only just now entering phase 3, and its phase 1/ phase 2 were smaller groups).

Its trial 3 is 60k people and has first 2 phases in the Lancet
However, the results published in the scientific journal The Lancet are only from the first and second trial phases of one of those four vaccines.

According to the report, Sinovac Biotech's CoronaVac triggered a quick immune response, although the study conducted in April and May this year did not give a percentage of the vaccine's success rate.

Zhu Fengcai, one of the paper's authors, said the results - which are based on 144 participants in the phase 1 trial and 600 in the phase 2 trial - meant the vaccine was "suitable for emergency use".
[...]
Its vaccine is different from the ones announced by Pfizer/BionTech and Moderna in that it has been
developed using more traditional methods. It uses a chemically inactivated version of the virus. The manufacturers highlight the fact that their vaccine gives a "quick" response in the trials - developing virus-fighting antibodies within 14 days of receiving a dose. This feature would make it suitable for emergency use, they say, during an outbreak or for healthcare workers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54982910

The Russian one is who I think the fewest outside people are going to trust, as it definitely seems a little rushed (considering it's almost certainly going to be the first out by at least a month). It also doesn't have the cold storage issue, btw.

(The other two referred to are the Russian one, Sputnik, and the Oxford one)
The other two use a harmless virus that has been genetically modified to resemble the coronavirus.

Two doses are also required, but one advantage of Sputnik is that it doesn't need to be stored at very low temperatures, around -80C, unlike Pfizer's.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54905330
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
November 18 2020 16:59 GMT
#5723
On November 18 2020 17:38 Elroi wrote:
We have mask debates every ten pages or so here and it always goes something like this:
1) someone claims that it is beyond absurd to think that masks doesn't help against the virus.
2) he gets called out and provides some sources.
3) Other people claim that those tests are from laboratory settings and we still don't know how that pans out in real society.
4) we end up with two (imo pretty reasonable) opposing claims: we should try masks anyway because we
really think it works and it isn't so bad to use masks; or, we can't ask people to use masks because we don't know that it helps in this setting (and if it doesn't it will hurt the credibility of the authorities) and it's a real intrusion into people's lives.

No, this is pure ignorance. We have plenty of studies that have made it abundantly clear that masks help outside of laboratory settings and specifically with covid. The other perspective is not reasonable and does not deserve attention.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 18 2020 17:12 GMT
#5724
--- Nuked ---
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22664 Posts
November 18 2020 17:27 GMT
#5725
On November 19 2020 02:12 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2020 01:35 Nevuk wrote:
Also, there are several vaccines in the works. Moderna's does not require the ultra cold storage and I can't imagine many others opted for one with that unusual requirement.
Moderna said its vaccine is expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 36 to 46 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 days, up from the previous estimate of seven days. The vaccine can remain stable at minus-4 degrees Fahrenheit for up to six months and at room temperature for 24 hours, the company said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-19-vaccine-candidate-94-5-percent-effective-moderna-says-n1247888

Russia has their own and China apparently has four candidates, one of which is approved for emergency use already (only just now entering phase 3, and its phase 1/ phase 2 were smaller groups).

Its trial 3 is 60k people and has first 2 phases in the Lancet
However, the results published in the scientific journal The Lancet are only from the first and second trial phases of one of those four vaccines.

According to the report, Sinovac Biotech's CoronaVac triggered a quick immune response, although the study conducted in April and May this year did not give a percentage of the vaccine's success rate.

Zhu Fengcai, one of the paper's authors, said the results - which are based on 144 participants in the phase 1 trial and 600 in the phase 2 trial - meant the vaccine was "suitable for emergency use".
[...]
Its vaccine is different from the ones announced by Pfizer/BionTech and Moderna in that it has been
developed using more traditional methods. It uses a chemically inactivated version of the virus. The manufacturers highlight the fact that their vaccine gives a "quick" response in the trials - developing virus-fighting antibodies within 14 days of receiving a dose. This feature would make it suitable for emergency use, they say, during an outbreak or for healthcare workers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54982910

The Russian one is who I think the fewest outside people are going to trust, as it definitely seems a little rushed (considering it's almost certainly going to be the first out by at least a month). It also doesn't have the cold storage issue, btw.

(The other two referred to are the Russian one, Sputnik, and the Oxford one)
The other two use a harmless virus that has been genetically modified to resemble the coronavirus.

Two doses are also required, but one advantage of Sputnik is that it doesn't need to be stored at very low temperatures, around -80C, unlike Pfizer's.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54905330

I am very pro vaccine and would not take the Russian or Chinese ones unless independently tested in a non dictatorship country. They have shown the propensity to show their empires in the best light instead of the truthful one at the expense of their own people which makes me doubt they would care that much about the rest of the world, other then how a failure might make the empire look. I would probably trust the Chinese one over the Russian one as the labs and handling the epidemic show more competency but I'd rather stick to western Europe or NA tested ones.


How does it work with different vaccines. Like is there any chance to get the maximum out to people you could do the -70 degree one in big centers and the other one in areas where the freezers and transport would be more of a issue? If either is going to have production problems and there is not a down side to suing both (like they protect close to the same) that might end up being the best option. I could see there being fear of people getting the "worse" one or Govs being scared that they might get in trouble if one ends up worse, but there is risk with any strategy.
The Netherlands has bought vaccines from like half a dozen companies so we will likely have several variations being distrusted for use, so long as they are all roughly the same effectiveness, which appears to be the case sofar, then I don't imagine it will be an issue except to those people who would have been unlikely to get their vaccination in the first place.

if there is a big difference (say 1 70% effectiveness and another 95%) then things get more tricky. You might want to give people the option to use the less effective one now, or wait for more of the 'better' vaccine to become available. With maybe the ability to get an 'upgrade' shot of the better vaccine at a later date. I don't know if that is potentially dangerous or what have you.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
November 18 2020 17:51 GMT
#5726
On November 19 2020 02:12 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2020 01:35 Nevuk wrote:
Also, there are several vaccines in the works. Moderna's does not require the ultra cold storage and I can't imagine many others opted for one with that unusual requirement.
Moderna said its vaccine is expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 36 to 46 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 days, up from the previous estimate of seven days. The vaccine can remain stable at minus-4 degrees Fahrenheit for up to six months and at room temperature for 24 hours, the company said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-19-vaccine-candidate-94-5-percent-effective-moderna-says-n1247888

Russia has their own and China apparently has four candidates, one of which is approved for emergency use already (only just now entering phase 3, and its phase 1/ phase 2 were smaller groups).

Its trial 3 is 60k people and has first 2 phases in the Lancet
However, the results published in the scientific journal The Lancet are only from the first and second trial phases of one of those four vaccines.

According to the report, Sinovac Biotech's CoronaVac triggered a quick immune response, although the study conducted in April and May this year did not give a percentage of the vaccine's success rate.

Zhu Fengcai, one of the paper's authors, said the results - which are based on 144 participants in the phase 1 trial and 600 in the phase 2 trial - meant the vaccine was "suitable for emergency use".
[...]
Its vaccine is different from the ones announced by Pfizer/BionTech and Moderna in that it has been
developed using more traditional methods. It uses a chemically inactivated version of the virus. The manufacturers highlight the fact that their vaccine gives a "quick" response in the trials - developing virus-fighting antibodies within 14 days of receiving a dose. This feature would make it suitable for emergency use, they say, during an outbreak or for healthcare workers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54982910

The Russian one is who I think the fewest outside people are going to trust, as it definitely seems a little rushed (considering it's almost certainly going to be the first out by at least a month). It also doesn't have the cold storage issue, btw.

(The other two referred to are the Russian one, Sputnik, and the Oxford one)
The other two use a harmless virus that has been genetically modified to resemble the coronavirus.

Two doses are also required, but one advantage of Sputnik is that it doesn't need to be stored at very low temperatures, around -80C, unlike Pfizer's.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54905330

I am very pro vaccine and would not take the Russian or Chinese ones unless independently tested in a non dictatorship country. They have shown the propensity to show their empires in the best light instead of the truthful one at the expense of their own people which makes me doubt they would care that much about the rest of the world, other then how a failure might make the empire look. I would probably trust the Chinese one over the Russian one as the labs and handling the epidemic show more competency but I'd rather stick to western Europe or NA tested ones.


How does it work with different vaccines. Like is there any chance to get the maximum out to people you could do the -70 degree one in big centers and the other one in areas where the freezers and transport would be more of a issue? If either is going to have production problems and there is not a down side to suing both (like they protect close to the same) that might end up being the best option. I could see there being fear of people getting the "worse" one or Govs being scared that they might get in trouble if one ends up worse, but there is risk with any strategy.


Dunno about the Russian one, but the chinese vaccine (Coronavac) is being tested in partnership with the Butantan institute here in Sao Paulo under supervision by Brazillian regulatory agencies. I trust the institute and (mostly) trust the regulatory agency responsible.

At least you can know that our federal government isn't tampering to approve the vaccine. If anything, Bolsonaro would tamper to reject it, since the partnership was fruit of Sao Paulo's governor's work, one of his main political rivals. In fact, it was suggested that last week's brief call to halt the testing (due to a death that was in fact an unrelated suicide) was done by political inteference, but honestly I think it was just a bureocratic mixup.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/world/asia/brazil-china-vaccine-covid19.html
Bora Pain minha porra!
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10666 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-18 21:53:02
November 18 2020 21:36 GMT
#5727
I live in Hawaii and the state requires a negative test if ur arriving or you’ll be placed on 2-week self quarantine. I have a two-day stint in LA and Las Vegas and already have a confirmed appointment for rapid testing at a Walgreens drive through in Vegas.

My question is has anyone taken a rapid test before? And how much was it? I already looked up and tried calling the store but could only gather info that generally rapid tests are in the ~150 range.
Skol
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46537 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-19 11:05:36
November 19 2020 11:05 GMT
#5728
On November 19 2020 06:36 Emnjay808 wrote:
I live in Hawaii and the state requires a negative test if ur arriving or you’ll be placed on 2-week self quarantine. I have a two-day stint in LA and Las Vegas and already have a confirmed appointment for rapid testing at a Walgreens drive through in Vegas.

My question is has anyone taken a rapid test before? And how much was it? I already looked up and tried calling the store but could only gather info that generally rapid tests are in the ~150 range.


I've taken 2 rapid tests before (in New Jersey) and they were completely covered by my health insurance... both times... after a few bucks (like $10) as a copay.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 19 2020 16:02 GMT
#5729
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17944 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-19 17:34:47
November 19 2020 16:54 GMT
#5730
meh, if hte government of Ontario doesn't take the containment of deadly infectious diseases seriously... why will its citizens do so?

in 2003 Toronto, Ontario, Canada was hit hard by SARS. The government of Ontario didn't take SARS seriously. The Ontario government continued to have nurses working part time in multiple hospitals rather than paying up for full time, salaried nurses with extended medical benefits working in one and only one hospital. The Ontario government just rolled along like nothing happened. Having part time nurses working in multiple hospitals makes it very hard to contain an infectious disease. And, it is dangerous for the nurses themselves. Worst case scenario is that you work to contain an infectious disease to 1 single hospital. Then a part time nurse ends up spreading it to one of the other hospitals where they work part time.

https://rnao.ca/sites/rnao-ca/files/SARS_Unmasked.pdf
Page12.
Over-reliance on Part-Time and Casual Employment Across Ontario, the share of casual / part-time nursing employment peaked in the late 1990s at over 50%. Although it has improved slightly since then, it remains unacceptably high (see chart 2). Since SARS was by and large an issue for the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), the employment patterns in this area are of particular interest. From College of Nurses of Ontario (CNO) data, we see that the patterns of part-time and casual employment in Toronto and in the GTA are similar to that for Ontario as a whole. Table 1 shows the employment status of nurses employed in nursing in Ontario, in the GTA and in Metro Toronto.


If the Ontario government won't take stuff like SARS and Covid19 seriously enough to take the proper step to protect nurses by offering full time employment in 1 hospital... what signal does that send to the average Ontarian? Its all talk by the government.. .and no real action.

No wonder thousands of Canadian nurses leave for full time work in the USA. There are hardly any full time job offers for nurses in Ontario. Ontario is hte most populous province in Canada.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1955372/

https://www.conexusmedstaff.com/blog/2019/09/why-are-so-many-canadian-nurses-moving-to-the-us
The number of Canadian nurses moving to the US has continued to increase over the past decade. Given that Canada is facing its own nursing shortage, what exactly is it about the US that’s so appealing to nurses?
Over three-quarters of respondents said they left Canada to obtain full-time RN employment;


So these nurses are not just complaining. They are complaining and leaving for a better situation. Is anyone going to listen? If the government isn't taking infectious disease containment seriously... why should its citizens?

If a MOD considers this "fear mongering" please ask for more details about the nursing situation in Ontario, Canada. I can cover this topic in great detail should any statements in my post be in question.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 19 2020 17:22 GMT
#5731
CDC is advising against travel for thanksgiving this year in America. Makes sense to me given how bad our spikes are getting.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/coronavirus-cdc-urges-americans-against-traveling-for-thanksgiving-as-coronavirus-outbreak-worsens.html
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 19 2020 17:48 GMT
#5732
--- Nuked ---
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10666 Posts
November 19 2020 18:37 GMT
#5733
On November 19 2020 20:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2020 06:36 Emnjay808 wrote:
I live in Hawaii and the state requires a negative test if ur arriving or you’ll be placed on 2-week self quarantine. I have a two-day stint in LA and Las Vegas and already have a confirmed appointment for rapid testing at a Walgreens drive through in Vegas.

My question is has anyone taken a rapid test before? And how much was it? I already looked up and tried calling the store but could only gather info that generally rapid tests are in the ~150 range.


I've taken 2 rapid tests before (in New Jersey) and they were completely covered by my health insurance... both times... after a few bucks (like $10) as a copay.

Thanks that’s what I’m hoping lol. I wouldn’t even mind if copay would be higher than 20 bucks tbh
Skol
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12175 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-19 18:52:58
November 19 2020 18:51 GMT
#5734
On November 20 2020 03:37 Emnjay808 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2020 20:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 19 2020 06:36 Emnjay808 wrote:
I live in Hawaii and the state requires a negative test if ur arriving or you’ll be placed on 2-week self quarantine. I have a two-day stint in LA and Las Vegas and already have a confirmed appointment for rapid testing at a Walgreens drive through in Vegas.

My question is has anyone taken a rapid test before? And how much was it? I already looked up and tried calling the store but could only gather info that generally rapid tests are in the ~150 range.


I've taken 2 rapid tests before (in New Jersey) and they were completely covered by my health insurance... both times... after a few bucks (like $10) as a copay.

Thanks that’s what I’m hoping lol. I wouldn’t even mind if copay would be higher than 20 bucks tbh


The company I work for started buying testing capacity for their employees. It was in the $75-150 range cost for the company. (Numbers taken from memory since they only published it once internally and I can't locate it again.)

So unless US exceptionalism strikes again your ~150 estimate seems to be the actual cost if you foot the entire bill.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17944 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-19 18:58:33
November 19 2020 18:52 GMT
#5735
On November 20 2020 02:48 JimmiC wrote:
I'm also really confused on the almost no job offers for full time nurses in Ontario, I quick search brings up what looks like tons to me compared to almost any other employment.

https://ca.indeed.com/Registered-Nurse-jobs-in-Ontario?advn=6625725675672084&vjk=2355732ffbd1511b

Did you read your own source? Many are temporary due to Covid19. Most are not in hospitals
https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q=Registered Nurse&l=Ontario&vjk=6f8c762d26ecfd2b
https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q=Registered Nurse&l=Ontario&vjk=0fc0aa8ecec5e5ee
https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q=Registered Nurse&l=Ontario&vjk=1e50c2b20515b520
https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q=Registered Nurse&l=Ontario&vjk=18fabbb51a101bf3
https://careers.josephbranthospital.ca/eRecruit/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyUID=000000005981

None of these are permanent full time positions working in one hospital.

I gather you do not live in Ontario nor do you know any nurses living in Ontario. It is very difficult to land a permanent full time job in an Ontario hospital. Ontario hospitals continue to over rely on part time nurses who work in multiple facilities.

This is why nurses are leaving in substantial number to work in full time jobs in the USA as I stated in my post. When it comes to infectious disease control the government of Ontario is all talk and no action.

This is a pretty typical , middle-of-the-road perspective held by lots and lots of Ontario hospital workers and nurses in particular. This attitude then propagates to the rest of the community.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 19 2020 19:16 GMT
#5736
--- Nuked ---
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22423 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-19 20:28:29
November 19 2020 20:12 GMT
#5737
On November 19 2020 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2020 17:38 Elroi wrote:
We have mask debates every ten pages or so here and it always goes something like this:
1) someone claims that it is beyond absurd to think that masks doesn't help against the virus.
2) he gets called out and provides some sources.
3) Other people claim that those tests are from laboratory settings and we still don't know how that pans out in real society.
4) we end up with two (imo pretty reasonable) opposing claims: we should try masks anyway because we
really think it works and it isn't so bad to use masks; or, we can't ask people to use masks because we don't know that it helps in this setting (and if it doesn't it will hurt the credibility of the authorities) and it's a real intrusion into people's lives.

No, this is pure ignorance. We have plenty of studies that have made it abundantly clear that masks help outside of laboratory settings and specifically with covid. The other perspective is not reasonable and does not deserve attention.


Here's a recent one:

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

What mostly caught my eye is this:

Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.


the 95% CIs are the extremes and the actual value would be somewhere in the middle. Not significant means the sample size was too small and the effect probably is too (in relation to the sample size I'd add before looking like I'm against masks).

Oh and the guy in Travis video conference vid is called Dr. Robert Hodgkinson apparently, so he's not a random dude spreading misinfo (though he has a bit of an extreme opinion).


Found an interesting project by Cambridge for an app in the comments section of my newspapers. Seems to make more sense to me than contact tracing and might give it a shot.

https://www.covid-19-sounds.org/en/
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 19 2020 21:05 GMT
#5738
On November 20 2020 05:12 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2020 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:
On November 18 2020 17:38 Elroi wrote:
We have mask debates every ten pages or so here and it always goes something like this:
1) someone claims that it is beyond absurd to think that masks doesn't help against the virus.
2) he gets called out and provides some sources.
3) Other people claim that those tests are from laboratory settings and we still don't know how that pans out in real society.
4) we end up with two (imo pretty reasonable) opposing claims: we should try masks anyway because we
really think it works and it isn't so bad to use masks; or, we can't ask people to use masks because we don't know that it helps in this setting (and if it doesn't it will hurt the credibility of the authorities) and it's a real intrusion into people's lives.

No, this is pure ignorance. We have plenty of studies that have made it abundantly clear that masks help outside of laboratory settings and specifically with covid. The other perspective is not reasonable and does not deserve attention.


Here's a recent one:

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

What mostly caught my eye is this:
Show nested quote +

Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.


the 95% CIs are the extremes and the actual value would be somewhere in the middle. Not significant means the sample size was too small and the effect probably is too (in relation to the sample size I'd add before looking like I'm against masks).

Oh and the guy in Travis video conference vid is called Dr. Robert Hodgkinson apparently, so he's not a random dude spreading misinfo (though he has a bit of an extreme opinion).


Found an interesting project by Cambridge for an app in the comments section of my newspapers. Seems to make more sense to me than contact tracing and might give it a shot.

https://www.covid-19-sounds.org/en/

I wouldn’t say the sample size is too small when that’s the largest mask study to date and isn’t a junky n<1000 one. The “compatible with” is an awkward way of stating the limits of studies in general observing minor impact factors. IE statistics students are more commonly taught to observe that they fail to reject the null hypothesis, rather than opine on which variety of possibilities could be concealed by random chance (see also someone claiming that the study shows masks might have increased covid spread among wearers).

The effect is likely small for transmission to not have a noticeable decrease with such a large number of participants. It still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t wear masks or masks with social distancing is entirely ineffective.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-19 21:17:14
November 19 2020 21:14 GMT
#5739
The reason for the huge CI range is the very low rate of COVID in the participants overall.

1.8% vs 2.1% is incredibly small as a difference, and the study didn't happen in a covid hot zone (Denmark in april + may).
Future mask studies are going to be better, because COVID is more prevalent. (We can make some guesses based on mask mandates, but unless they're very strictly enforced we won't really have good data).


I wouldn’t say the sample size is too small when that’s the largest mask study to date and isn’t a junky n<1000 one. The “compatible with” is an awkward way of stating the limits of studies in general observing minor impact factors. IE statistics students are more commonly taught to observe that they fail to reject the null hypothesis, rather than opine on which variety of possibilities could be concealed by random chance (see also someone claiming that the study shows masks might have increased covid spread among wearers).

Not just commonly taught, exclusively taught. Every stats textbook in English says to phrase it that way. If you see it phrased any other way it's being written to be presented for a non-stats audience.


edit: The studies showing masks have an effect are the different, non stats ones: they're the ones that show how significantly fluid spray is reduced by a mask. We know that for sure, and it just seems insane that it wouldn't translate into an overall reduction of spread.

CDC has changed their stance btw, and said it reduces risk of getting infected as well now (in addition to reducing risk of asymptomatic spread).
Hondelul
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
1999 Posts
November 19 2020 21:19 GMT
#5740
On November 20 2020 05:12 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2020 01:59 Mohdoo wrote:
On November 18 2020 17:38 Elroi wrote:
We have mask debates every ten pages or so here and it always goes something like this:
1) someone claims that it is beyond absurd to think that masks doesn't help against the virus.
2) he gets called out and provides some sources.
3) Other people claim that those tests are from laboratory settings and we still don't know how that pans out in real society.
4) we end up with two (imo pretty reasonable) opposing claims: we should try masks anyway because we
really think it works and it isn't so bad to use masks; or, we can't ask people to use masks because we don't know that it helps in this setting (and if it doesn't it will hurt the credibility of the authorities) and it's a real intrusion into people's lives.

No, this is pure ignorance. We have plenty of studies that have made it abundantly clear that masks help outside of laboratory settings and specifically with covid. The other perspective is not reasonable and does not deserve attention.

Oh and the guy in Travis video conference vid is called Dr. Robert Hodgkinson apparently, so he's not a random dude spreading misinfo (though he has a bit of an extreme opinion).

On November 18 2020 14:28 RenSC2 wrote:
"no evidence of masks being useful" - except all the evidence of masks being useful against airborne viruses.
"social distancing is also useless" - except all the evidence of it being useful.
"the risk of death under 65 in this province is 1 in 300,000" - Blatantly wrong. Breakdowns are by 10s, so under 60, the deaths in Alberta are 16 out of 35,291 or about 1 in 2200 die, not 1 in 300,000. He's off by a factor of more than 100.


At the moment Alberta puts it at 35939 cases to 17 death. https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm

So it is not "a bit of of an extreme opinion" but just blatant lying. You should rethink your opinion or be truthful about your position.
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