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South American Politics thread - Page 42

Forum Index > General Forum
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Prev 1 40 41 42 43 44 66 Next
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 12 2019 02:06 GMT
#821
--- Nuked ---
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-12 06:57:38
September 12 2019 06:52 GMT
#822
Still nothing from Brazil. Which is good as that would signal the crisis is spreading this seems to be Maduro letting the Military put on a show so they can at least answer what they perceive as Colombian aggression and maintain some public support at the same time.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2749 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-17 22:17:57
September 17 2019 22:17 GMT
#823
On September 08 2019 11:46 JimmiC wrote:
No I didn’t and no you didn’t, you said there was US lead coup, which looks like it never will come.


Chili 1973 wasn't perform by the USA either but it's hard to deny their responsability.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 17 2019 22:44 GMT
#824
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23235 Posts
September 18 2019 01:58 GMT
#825
On September 18 2019 07:44 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2019 07:17 stilt wrote:
On September 08 2019 11:46 JimmiC wrote:
No I didn’t and no you didn’t, you said there was US lead coup, which looks like it never will come.


Chili 1973 wasn't perform by the USA either but it's hard to deny their responsability.

Other than both being in South America can you source anything that makes the two situations the same?


Don't think he was arguing they were the same, just that US involvement was instrumental, which even you can't deny.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-18 15:14:55
September 18 2019 15:14 GMT
#826
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23235 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-18 15:56:48
September 18 2019 15:21 GMT
#827
On September 19 2019 00:14 JimmiC wrote:
I was trying to understand his point. To your point yes US was involved in both, in completely different ways. For example one was a coup one was not. I dont deny things that are actual facts, just your presumptions.


Everyone from The Wall Street journal to NPR has referred to the situation as a failed "coup" but if you want to argue semantics go right ahead.

EDIT: your following post should demonstrate why it's not worth their time, hopefully they find that helpful.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 18 2019 15:39 GMT
#828
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 19 2019 01:12 GMT
#829
--- Nuked ---
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2749 Posts
September 19 2019 09:37 GMT
#830
On September 19 2019 00:14 JimmiC wrote:
I was trying to understand his point. To your point yes US was involved in both, in completely different ways. For example one was a coup one was not. I dont deny things that are actual facts, just your presumptions.



Do I really need to post articles about the massive economics sanctions and political pressions (+ an active and overly obvious research to corrupt their military in order to provoke a coup) the USA apply to these countries in order to see their regime crumble ?
The major difference is Guaido as a liberal democrat won't necesseraly slaughter his political opponents like Pinochet but as a member of the oligarchy and an american puppet, it will still be tough as hell.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 19 2019 14:29 GMT
#831
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 20 2019 17:02 GMT
#832
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 27 2019 15:56 GMT
#833
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 27 2019 20:37 GMT
#834
--- Nuked ---
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
September 27 2019 21:09 GMT
#835
On September 28 2019 05:37 JimmiC wrote:
Amnesty international is strongly supporting the UN looking into the human rights violations in Venezuela that they believe are breaking international law. This could be a precursor to eventual war crimes charges against Maduro and members of his government and military.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/09/venezuela-un-human-rights-body-backs-victims-hopes-for-justice/


What would need to happen for you to be ok with an international coalition steping in and military deposing Maduro?
Mass executions? Civil War (they sort of have that)? Gas chambers?

Fully honest question.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 27 2019 21:22 GMT
#836
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23235 Posts
September 30 2019 15:21 GMT
#837
Reuters reports that the US will be providing Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido with $52 million in funding. Guaido's office says the US, not his office, will be directing the said funds for the opposition.

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States said on Tuesday it will provide $52 million (£41.6 million) in funding to Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido, an escalation of support even as his push to oust socialist President Nicolas Maduro stalls.

Maduro, a socialist who has overseen an economic collapse and is accused of corruption and rights abuses, calls Guaido a coup-mongering U.S. puppet, an accusation likely to be bolstered by USAID’s announcement.

In a statement posted on Twitter, Guaido’s office thanked USAID for the aid but said it would not administer any of the funds itself, given that it has not yet appointed a comptroller.

“100% of the resources will be administered through implementing parties authorized by U.S. authorities,” the statement read.


uk.reuters.com
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3022 Posts
September 30 2019 18:11 GMT
#838
It's a PR war more than anything, ain't nobody removing Maduro from power. There was recently an interview with an argentinian ambassador in Venezuela and he explained that Maduro gave a lot of power to the military by making it the core of the government employment, so a lot of people are literally getting paid to defend the regime, it's the only job they can get.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/venezuela-military/
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-01 09:30:00
October 01 2019 09:26 GMT
#839
So who does one believe? Unless the reforms are masked to hide other details not known to the public. Or the far right party, which is a problem all in it self.

Peruvian president Martín Vizcarra has dissolved Congress to end a year-long battle with rightwing lawmakers over his anti-corruption campaign, but rebel legislators refused to leave the chamber as protests against them started across the country.

Peru’s worst political crisis in two decades threatens unrest in the South American country and could bring lawmaking to a halt.

“Peruvian people, we have done all we could,” Vizcarra told the nation in a televised message. He vowed to call new legislative elections to let voters weigh in on a dispute he says has stymied his bid to stamp out graft in the ruling class.

Opposition representatives cried “Dictator” after Vizcarra invoked a constitutional article allowing presidents to dissolve Congress. The chamber immediately voted to declare him temporarily suspended, naming vice president Mercedes Araoz to replace him.

But a government source said their efforts were void, since Congress was already officially closed.

Vizcarra accused Popular Force, the opposition majority party led by jailed former presidential candidate Keiko Fujimori, of trying to use democratic institutions for personal gain.

The party has dragged its feet on passing his anti-corruption reforms and last week shelved his bill for a snap general election to end the impasse.

The last straw, Vizcarra said, was Congress’ appointment on Monday of a new member to the top court, the constitutional tribunal, which would be the likely referee in a legal dispute between Congress and the government.

Proposed nominees for up to six of the tribunal’s seven members had drawn fire for links to criminally suspect judges.

“What happened in Congress underscores the shamelessness to which the parliamentary majority has fallen,” Vizcarra added.

Peru’s mining-powered economy has largely shrugged off increasing bouts of political turmoil in recent years, including the resignation last year of former president Pedro Pablo Kuczynski in a clash with Popular Force.

Kuczynski and Peru’s three other most recent presidents have been ensnared in a massive bribery scandal involving Brazilian builder Odebrecht.

Fujimori, the daughter of former authoritarian president Alberto Fujimori, is in pre-trial detention in a case related to Odebrecht.

Protesters gathered outside Congress in Lima on Monday night to pressure lawmakers to leave, while police in riot gear stood by. Domestic media said protests in support of Vizcarra had also started in other cities across the country.

Most Peruvians in recent opinion polls have expressed support for the dissolution of Congress. Vizcarra is often greeted on the streets with shouts encouraging the move.

Peru’s constitution allows presidents to dissolve Congress to call new elections if lawmakers deliver two votes of no-confidence in a government. The current Congress has already voted once that it had no confidence in the government.

Vizcarra said he counted Congress’ appointment of a new member to the constitutional tribunal as a second vote of no-confidence.

But lawmakers, who voted to renew their confidence in his government on Monday, said he had overstepped constitutional limits by overriding Congress’ powers to appoint tribunal judges.

“Vizcarra and his ministers will end up in jail. We will end up in history!” said former congressman Jorge del Castillo.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2749 Posts
October 02 2019 09:15 GMT
#840
On September 19 2019 23:29 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2019 18:37 stilt wrote:
On September 19 2019 00:14 JimmiC wrote:
I was trying to understand his point. To your point yes US was involved in both, in completely different ways. For example one was a coup one was not. I dont deny things that are actual facts, just your presumptions.



Do I really need to post articles about the massive economics sanctions and political pressions (+ an active and overly obvious research to corrupt their military in order to provoke a coup) the USA apply to these countries in order to see their regime crumble ?
The major difference is Guaido as a liberal democrat won't necesseraly slaughter his political opponents like Pinochet but as a member of the oligarchy and an american puppet, it will still be tough as hell.

Is not massive economic sanctions different? Is not over 50 countries supporting Guaido different? Is Guadio using the constitution different? Is it not different that over 3 million have fled, 2 million before the sanctions different?

This is a legal attempt to overthrow a dictator, yes the US was involved in both. But you are leaving out that basically every democracy that has picked a side has picked Guaido. And it isnt the left that is supporting Maduro, it is dictatorships.

How do you think the world should support people trying to get out from under a dictatorship?


I wonder why you think massive economics sanction are different in these two cases, that's the same story : you strangle economically a state and then declare its governement inapt (btw, venezuela has always been under sanction, since chavez...) , then you overthrow them and liberals are happy.

Moreover, you tried to bring democracy in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq, Lybia (and proceeded to utterly destroy the state of 3 of these nations) this makes the way you formulate your last question so damn annoying and in the context, it's maybe not criminal but cmon, let's try to be a bit less selfcentered : "How do you think the world shoud support people trying to get out from USA influence ?" See ? That's way better.
As for the legality of the coup made by Gaido, well, even the anglo saxon media speaks of "self proclaimed president", this timorous formula by biaised medias says it all.

Btw, you should add "liberal democracy" when you're talking about all the subservient states who are following usa imperialist policy as democracy is supposed to serve the interest of the majority, the public good which is not what the occidental political system is about, if it was the case, healthcare and a good education should be free in the richest country in the world but we both know it just can't happen in this political culture and system no matther who is in command. (I am fairly sure Obama was a decent human being which is pretty rare in politics but he couldn't do shits) I know, democracy is a fetish everyone loves but it's a word with so much political implications, applications and forms it should not be used carelessly.

Same goes for the "left", we have a different defintion, a leftist in usa is a rich person (or someone who follows their interest) who plays the divide and conquer game with minorities in order to keep its cultural and economical privilege, so an anglo saxon leftist encourages racisme, hatred, religious fanatism. Obviously, despite their rhetoric, an american leftist wants a free market and more populations to dominate in the name of "democracy", Venezuela appears as a good target.
As an eu leftist who actually cares a bit about social equality, I choose 50 times a guy like Putin over Trudeau, at least the first one managed to drastically increase the standart of living of his compatriots after the reign of the pro USA Yeltsin (how many deads with the shock therapy ?) and is in opposition to usa, as for their democratic approach, both are a joke.
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