The Games Industry And ATVI - Page 48

On May 15 2021 07:30 Harris1st wrote:


In that case, I'm kinda hyped for Biomutant
Whaddaya think about that one?

Though I still don't think some sort of catch up boost or something for ppl who start late or simply have less time is okay. As long as they are capped somehow

On May 15 2021 08:01 Archeon wrote:

Imo the problem with catch up boosts is that it only makes sense if your leveling sucks and if your leveling sucks you made a ton of boring content. So imo it'd be better to make the leveling content engaging than use a band-aid that can be monetized, which always brings the hidden incentive to make leveling more boring and slow in order to bring more money in.

The usual solution is to create dungeons with variable player sizes so ppl who want more challenge can just go lower on the party numbers, but they need the more exploration heavy populace for their player count, so they can't make mainly dungeons and shared cities like GW1 if they want a large consistent player count.

On May 15 2021 17:31 deacon.frost wrote:

Every leveling done for the 51st time is boring. SWTOR has one of the best base leveling out there and trust me - it gets boring. It gets boring pretty fast. Like really really fast. I have over 40 characters in there IIRC(haven't logged for a long time) And if you skip the content you lose some fancy things(e.g. the Darth title which is really unfortunate for a Star Wars Sith character )

No matter how good your leveling system is, if you force multiple characters and multiple leveling from the start it will get boring eventually. Also not everyone is so hyped about leveling no matter how engaging you do that because some people just want to do the endgame content - e.g. in many games leveling through PvP is harder than leveling through PvE. Some players don't give a flying fuck about the PvE but to access the endgame PvP you need the level. And the hardcore PvE players just see the dungeons and OW PvE as a boring barrier to raids, where the PvE really begins.

On May 16 2021 13:30 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
I agree with Archeon but i would add I think the OW leveling gameplay, when it involves nearby players whether for coop or pvp or a mix of both can be great and is exactly what I'm looking for in a MMO. That's why wow vanilla on a high pop server (no layers etc) is amazing, as long as there are always and everywhere players near you the gameplay is the best! Totally challenging especially when pvp is involved too. I don't really get bored with the leveling game, the only thing that matters for fun factor is that there are always players around, no low pop, no layers etc. [Because i would say wow is not a good single player game eheh ] So if you played on Nostalrius and some other places like that or some server openings you know what I mean i think, 100% would do it again but it's hard to find the place for it actually. (wow classic only was first few weeks, too low pop due to layers and i suppose player cap too and other issues that came up later i heard about boost meta because of bad balance changes etc)
I understand ppl who like raids and stuff but it's not what I come to a MMO for, I want open world stuff not instances, so I barely ever do BGs also. Anyway there's no reason these can't be good at any level not just max level etc.

On May 16 2021 06:18 Manit0u wrote:
Heh, for me the best part of any MMO is the leveling process. Most end game stuff is boring as hell for me (like doing dungeons over and over again).

On May 16 2021 10:41 Archeon wrote:

I get all these, but let's be honest, there is no reason why lategame needs to be more engaging than playing through the leveling area. If you create story quests, an open world and team-based dungeons so everyone can pick their poison there's no reason to level-gate this or that content unless you want to sell boosters. Games like GW2 or blade and soul introduced dungeons with a decent challenge fairly early on and in SWTOR I can try the 2/4-man dungeons solo if I want a challenge.

Like MMOs tend to have this distribution into OW leveling phase for explorers and social players and lategame dungeon/raid phase for the gameplay faction and unless your power growth is extremely exponential I don't see the point of level-gating the latter. Because like you say at some point the leveling phase gets boring and the gameplay people only play to use their char at max level in raids, but that basically means that only ~1% of the game actually has replay value for them.

And SWTOR imo really isn't a good case for good base leveling. The story representation is entertaining, but outside of the main quest you know the rest with your second char of the same faction. Else it's imo a typical case of extremely boring leveling, from lack of challenge to strong build limitations to slowed down fights with channel times and global cds to long ass travel times TOR does everything to make the actual gameplay during leveling as dull as possible.

On May 16 2021 19:29 Gorsameth wrote:
If your mainly interested in the level part then are you not more looking for an RPG then an MMO-RPG?
I don't know how the multiplayer of RPG's is these days, I play solo but if you want to play an RPG with other people for the story and leveling then I would suspect your more likely to find your grove there then in enjoying just the levelling aspect of an MMO.
Tho some like SWTOR are really good and certainly worth doing.

And as always, If you enjoy levelling in MMO's then I'm not telling you not to or saying your doing it 'wrong'. You do you.

On May 16 2021 19:23 deacon.frost wrote:

Yeah, but most players see it the other way around.

On May 16 2021 19:23 deacon.frost wrote:

Yeah, but most players see it the other way around.


Yeah, it is also over 10 years old and was obsolete-ish when it was released. I use it as an example because I know it. From what I've tried every other MMO has boring leveling. Be it FF14, GW2 or WoW. Out of these 4 the biggest winner is me not playing them

The endgame is more engaging because it is the endgame. It is the target experience for the most players. If you're a typical MMORPG player you spend hundreds of hours in the endgame and less than a hundred hours in the leveling process. So from the economic point of view - yes, the endgame has to be more endgaging because players will spend there the majority of their time. In other words - you want to keep the players in the game once they reach the max level

Yes, there are players who like to level again and again and again and again. But they're certainly not majority otherwise the leveling experience would have been better

Also notice how you write that you would solo something. In an RPG game you want to solo the shit. This is IMO the biggest issue MMORPG are facing. In what RPG game you would scratch the party and solo the shit? Let's check some the biggest RPG games:
ME - party, KOTOR - party, Baldur's Gate - party

And now let's add that you're playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER. WTF? If you want to solo and experience great leveling MMORPG is the worst RPG you can play. Sure, it is an issue if you're a big Star Wars or Warcraft fan(e.g.). But that's how it is.

Edit>
Most people simply don't care about the journey, they care about the target of the journey

On May 17 2021 00:23 Manit0u wrote:


Are you sure? AFAIK actually very low % of the playerbase usually engages in super end game stuff with scheduled raiding, pushing for the rankings, organized PvP etc.

On May 17 2021 01:58 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:


You have to define "super end game" for that to make any sense though. Less than 10% of players are full clearing mythic raids and often lower than 5% from a world of warcraft perspective. If you check heroic clear rates you'll see above 50% which is the majority you're looking for and even that isn't accounting for LFR players.