EPTThere are kickstarters that are basically just a large scale sale to get enough order volume to do a production run. Most of those are likely fine.
The Games Industry And ATVI - Page 82
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Yurie
12175 Posts
There are kickstarters that are basically just a large scale sale to get enough order volume to do a production run. Most of those are likely fine. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7424 Posts
On February 03 2026 00:42 Yurie wrote: Another way to look at is probably that you consider a multiplier on value. Assume 2/3 projects you back will fail. So any money you put in should give 3x value to future you. There are kickstarters that are basically just a large scale sale to get enough order volume to do a production run. Most of those are likely fine. There are many KS projects that are fine and good. Sure go ahead and support boardgames, books and whatnot on KS. Just not in the pc games section. Or at least think double and triple about it | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
202 Posts
On February 03 2026 00:42 Yurie wrote: Another way to look at is probably that you consider a multiplier on value. Assume 2/3 projects you back will fail. So any money you put in should give 3x value to future you. There are kickstarters that are basically just a large scale sale to get enough order volume to do a production run. Most of those are likely fine. We’ve gotten to the stage that we know which Kickstarters will work and which Kickstarters won’t work. If they have zero real design creep and need the funds to manufacture a reasonably designed product (so no motorised umbrellas), the likelihood you’ll get some sort of complete product at the end is almost guaranteed. I backed the kickstarter for the Loque Ghost S1 (a computer case) many years ago and they still managed to deliver a high quality product to me despite the whole process being a sham. They didn’t actually have manufacturing experience/capabilities and outsourced the first product batch to a Chinese coat hanger manufacturer who was predictably struggling to meet requirements. The successful crowdfunded games, like Undertale and Kingdom Come Deliverance, are dwarfed by the bad (Mighty No 9), the mediocre (Bloodstained), and arguable scams (Star Citizen). Harris is correct, just don’t kickstart software because more often than not you can expect it to not meet expectations or suffer from design creep/budget overruns/delays. As an aside, I also wouldn’t kickstart anything from Anycubic. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17931 Posts
https://www.thegamebusiness.com/p/us-video-game-market-defies-expectations the headline is hilarious. "defies expectations" ? whose expectations? i guess if click-baiters talk constantly about the "impending apocalypse" they can talk themselves into thinking its happening. The overpriced Nintendo Switch2 sold 15M units. 17.4M are shipped to stores. Thus, Nintendo and Walmart clearly anticipate consumers will continue to pay $450 USD for a 10 year old APU with a garbage screen. At Walmart every millimetre of the store must generate profit. They don't stick stuff on shelves for shits and giggles. What do the morons at Nintendo and Walmart know any way? Don't they realize the US economy is toast? https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2026/01/switch-2-remains-the-fastest-selling-console-in-the-us-at-4-4-million-units Any how, so much for the video game industry collapse. I guess it is fun talking about apocalypses though. Another ho-hum, boring year is in the books. Kinda like I projected. My projections are so boring though... they won't get clicks and views. On December 26 2025 01:14 Sadist wrote: What is curious about the circumstances? He gunned his car lost control and hit something. how fucked up on drugs was Vince? my mom runs a medical lab for a coroner. she gets substantial drug panels completed on a dead guy in a shift. the LA Coroner's office has a reputation for using the "waiting for information" excuse to sanitize details of a death. its a bullshit excuse. Critics and families often argue that these delays serve to: Manage Legacies: By the time a report is released months later, the initial shock has worn off, and the public has often accepted an alternative narrative—such as "mechanical failure" or "dangerous roads"—rather than substance use. Protect Assets: For individuals with massive financial ties, like Zampella and Electronic Arts, immediate toxicology releases could trigger stock volatility or legal liability that a delayed report avoids. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4392 Posts
Surely you can realise this? So is Nintendo and walmart that great and know switch 2 will sell for 450? Or is Nintendo horribly overpriced and walmart is discounting it from the start or unhappy to have 2more million units bought than what was sold? You need to pick a lane. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17931 Posts
On February 06 2026 05:13 KobraKay wrote: It's amazing how you even used the same source from the Nintendo thread to reach the exact opposite conclusion about Nintendo and their sales as to what you keep defending there. Surely you can realise this? So is Nintendo and walmart that great and know switch 2 will sell for 450? Or is Nintendo horribly overpriced and walmart is discounting it from the start or unhappy to have 2more million units bought than what was sold? You need to pick a lane. my lane is the U.S. economy is NOT total garbage as another poster continues to insist. US video game industry revenues increasing by 1% in 2025 prove people are spending more money than ever before. They are doing so to participate in a hobby that is a total bullshit, unnecessary activity that is both a time vampire and money black hole. Video game hobbyists have both money and time to throw away every week... that still holds true in 2025. The rebuttal from this poster is then "only the top 10% of incoming earning households are making discretionary spending purchases so consumer spending doesn't mean anything." My rebuttal to that is... just look at all the floor space Walmart dedicates to Sony, Nintendo and M$ video games. Thus, video games are a hobby where people in the bottom 90% are spending buckets and buckets of cash. The bottom 90% are NOT getting totally crushed in some horrible economy only benefiting the "rich" and the "upper middle class". Also, I think the PS5 outsold the Switch2 in the past 6 months even though it is more expensive. The conclusion: the median American who has a very slowly increasing real income ... is doing ok. That median American is spending lots of money on video games. The industry is not being carried by households making more than 250K/year. On February 06 2026 05:13 KobraKay wrote: Nintendo horribly overpriced and walmart is discounting it from the start or unhappy to have 2more million units bought than what was sold? You need to pick a lane. The Switch is ~$110 USD cheaper in Japan and selling great. The Switch2 went down in price by ~10% in its two biggest non-Japanese markets. Nintendo's actions indicate the price is too high i guess? My "lane" when it comes to the Switch2 is that it'll sell 80M units. I stated this shortly after teh Switch2 was released and it was breaking all kinds of sales records. I'm sticking with that projection: 80M units sold. It sold an all time record 4.4M units in the USA in the last 9 months of 2025 with plenty sold in Walmart. So middle class Americans are not starving to death in 2025... they have lots of extra spending money for video games. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2836 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46514 Posts
On February 06 2026 05:13 KobraKay wrote: It's amazing how you even used the same source from the Nintendo thread to reach the exact opposite conclusion about Nintendo and their sales as to what you keep defending there. Surely you can realise this? So is Nintendo and walmart that great and know switch 2 will sell for 450? Or is Nintendo horribly overpriced and walmart is discounting it from the start or unhappy to have 2more million units bought than what was sold? You need to pick a lane. I noticed this too. | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
202 Posts
Like he apparently spends all this time following the industry and yet completely ignores comments from Circana’s Mat Piscatella highlighting these facts that made the news everywhere: 53% of US video game hardware buyers in Q4 '25 had a household income of $100k+ - a record high - and up from 40% in Q1 '22. Over that same period, the % of video game hardware buyers that had household incomes of <$50k fell from 31% in Q1 2022 to 19% in Q4 2025. $50k-$75k HHs went from 17% to 14%, while $75k-$100k HH increased from 12% of total hardware buyers to 14%. Quite a shift over the course of the last 4 years. I don’t know about you but it sure sounds like middle and working class are becoming less and less of a core audience for consoles and it is wealthier consumers who actually have any money to spend on hardware and accessories fuelling the market. It’s not like the businesses are stupid, they’ve pivoted towards selling higher priced accessories like “professional” controllers that are multiple times the price of the base controller, higher costed headsets like those from Sony that use Audeze’s tech, or optional add-ons like Sony’s Portal streaming device or their optional disc drive for the PS5 Digital. This allows them some price flexibility on their core hardware due to higher profit margins everywhere else while also allowing them to nickle and dime affluent consumers who will buy four controllers. This was also one of the tariff mitigation strategies specifically mentioned by Nintendo, who has shifted price hikes that would normally be put on their hardware (which still happened but at a far lower percentage) onto accessories instead so to not front load costs onto adopters. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46514 Posts
On February 06 2026 20:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Pricing switch 2 at a premium paid off, cost of ram and ssds doubling making it look better compared to a new pc.If they had released it cheaper, probably would have raised the price by now. Agreed. And tbh I think it's a completely reasonable price compared to its competitors and compared to the prices of Nintendo's last-gen Switch 1 base model and Switch 1 OLED. | ||
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91clublogin
India1 Post
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bharatclublogin
India1 Post
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17931 Posts
me? nah, i'm dead bang on the money. On February 06 2026 13:08 Hat Trick of Today wrote: Like he apparently spends all this time following the industry and yet completely ignores comments from Circana’s Mat Piscatella highlighting these facts that made the news everywhere: your "source" 53% of US video game hardware buyers in Q4 '25 had a household income of $100k+ - a record high - and up from 40% in Q1 '22. Over that same period, the % of video game hardware buyers that had household incomes of <$50k fell from 31% in Q1 2022 to 19% in Q4 2025. $50k-$75k HHs went from 17% to 14%, while $75k-$100k HH increased from 12% of total hardware buyers to 14%. Quite a shift over the course of the last 4 years. On February 06 2026 13:08 Hat Trick of Today wrote: He’s still dead wrong about everything. nah, you are very bad at interpreting statistics. so very bad. inflation. 43M households had incomes over 100K in 2020. 58M had incomes over 100K in 2025. due to inflation there will always be a record high % of households with incomes over $100K buying consoles. the # of 100K households rose substantially during those high inflation times. the # is always rising. who spends all their time "following the industry" ? i follow the industry while i am waiting for match making in whatever multiplayer game i'm playing. Compared to 1978, a far greater % of video game consoles were purchased by households making $100K+. I guess video games are a sport for the rich. LOL. Any how, video games remain and always have been a great hobby for the lower middle class and working poor. Its also a great hobby for super cheap upper middle class people. I'm very proud of the ways I invent to spend almost no money playing great games for many hours. One does not require a PS5, XBOX Series X, or Switch2 to pursue their video game hobby. Any one can jam together a PC with used and spare parts like I did 7 years ago. None of this will "show up in the stats" published by mainstream media framing their headlines for clickbait though. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4392 Posts
Doesnt matter if all of us start making 1 million a month if a bottle of water now costs 500k. Your statistic will show an unprecedented amount of millionaires compared to the previous data point you are using to compare the current data to, however, people's economic situation has degraded a ton. Hope the above helps ilustrate why your "statistic" is irrelevant to what was being pointed out. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17931 Posts
On March 28 2026 23:32 KobraKay wrote: That example of the 100k shows you dont know how inflation works. Doesnt matter if all of us start making 1 million a month if a bottle of water now costs 500k. Your statistic will show an unprecedented amount of millionaires compared to the previous data point you are using to compare the current data to, however, people's economic situation has degraded a ton. Hope the above helps ilustrate why your "statistic" is irrelevant to what was being pointed out. I'll put it out there plain as day. The fastest 5-year period of nominal (non-inflation-adjusted) wage growth since 1979 in the U.S. is: Roughly 2019–2024 (COVID + post-COVID period) So, we now have 58M households making 100K+ per year. A much larger % of all households make 100K+. So that increased larger % ends up resulting in a larger % buying the random consumer product known as a video game console. Here is the statement I made. On February 06 2026 05:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: video games are a hobby where people in the bottom 90% are spending buckets and buckets of cash. Here is the conclusion of the poster's "statistical analysis" I don’t know about you but it sure sounds like middle and working class are becoming less and less of a core audience for consoles and it is wealthier consumers who actually have any money to spend on hardware and accessories fuelling the market. During this analysis he "analyzes" console stats. Problem is, in the 2020s, there are 87 Bazillion video game hobbyists who never buy a PS5 or XBOX Series X console. In 1979, the year I quoted, you could argue that the 2600 and Intellivision consoles WERE THE VIDEO GAME HOBBY. You can not state that in the 2020s. You can pursue this hobby in any one of a million ways in the 2020s. The video game hobby is a great way to have fun spending very little money. I've been doing in since i was 13. I've poured countless hours into Brood War on PC since I was 14 and SC2 since i was 23. None of that involves a video game console. You can play these games with a $200 PC. The median price of Steam games has fallen from $19.50 to $15. https://games.gg/news/steam-players-prefer-lower-priced-games/ Millions and millions of video game hobbyists are having a blast playing cheaper and cheaper games. Games are falling in price faster every year. In conclusion: video games are a great hobby when you don't have much money to spend. Video games are also a great hobby if you are cheap like me. Despite how little one can spend while enjoying the hobby the amount spent on video games continues to rise every year. Sounds like paradise to me! | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17931 Posts
We only seem to hear about the tragic stories of the poor, exploited video game workers in North America. Meanwhile, the story telling coming out of North American studios is garbage and it used to be great. XBOX Game Studios are dropping like flies. Bungie in Washington will be at 400 employees down from 1600 employees. How is that megalopolis Bungie was building? Haven Studios in Montreal has made nothing. An XBOX Game Studio in Montreal is going to get shut down.  Ubisoft is going to have to lay some people off in Montreal sooner or later.With Montreal getting hit it'll be interesting to see how the Quebec government responds. The industry in Montreal only exists due to government grants and tax breaks. Anyhow, I'd say the North American video game industry is getting what it deserves. Making video games gets easier every decade; meanwhile members of the North American media make it seem like EA, Microsoft, and Sony are landing a man on the moon every time they bring out a game. LOL. Let's not make this out to be some kind of unforeseen shock. These studios are almost all commercial failures. Microsoft is giving all the studios they are going to cut the option to find another publisher. If the games they are making are so great someone will buy them. Ubisoft has been declining for a very long time. No one at Ubisoft should be surprised when they get laid off. Everyone at Bungie shoulda been looking for work for at least six months... ever since that stolen art thing their new game was doomed. Regarding XBOX, Microsoft is cutting everything it can. When you are looking to sell off a piece of your company the first thing you do is can any one not directly contributing to immediate profits. Then, you sell what is left. https://www.reuters.com/business/microsoft-has-considered-spinning-out-xbox-information-reports-2026-06-12/ | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13426 Posts
I don't think it has to do with militant workers and their salaries aren't great (for many, for a long time). What more likely happened was covid put a bunch of people inside, people played games more than ever before with more time on their hands and nowhere to go - similar to how netflix had a giant boom and other streamers alongside them. But as people spend less time indoors, or aren't forced to spend as much time indoors anyway, along with commuting to their office again like they used to - all those hours of commuting, prepping for in office work, the recovery of job markets (in different more varied work types compared to lockdown periods), etc, they spend less time playing games and watching netflix. A year or two ago this was hitting the netflix/stream space really hard. With the time lag to how long it takes games to be made, *and* the extra pressures of AI making everything computer so much more expensive - computers and equipment needed to make games, play games, etc. The costs are probably ballooning like crazy and all the hype based investment from 5/6 years ago on numbers that were never sustainable, is probably dropping. So costs up and cash flow down, along with higher interest rates make the financials grim for many im sure. The pressures for salary and all that is probably a factor but I don't think it was militant or greedy workers so much as it was the broad market pressures in the tech space in general and willingness to pay and invest in a future that never really materialized. | ||
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Yurie
12175 Posts
On top of that you have the multiplayer area where any new title is going to struggle even if it is decent. The incumbents aren't going away unless you can beat a game that was in development as long as yours and has had 5+ years of more development post release. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12026 Posts
On June 18 2026 00:19 Yurie wrote: I honestly think the competition is harder than it has ever been as well. Anybody buying an indie procedural game is a lost sale on a AAA game. They come out of the same time budget for the player. Aggregated over many many games this shrinks the market. On top of that you have the multiplayer area where any new title is going to struggle even if it is decent. The incumbents aren't going away unless you can beat a game that was in development as long as yours and has had 5+ years of more development post release. Competition really is heavy. I game a lot. How much do i spend on games? Maybe 20 bucks a month. Between replaying older games i already own, cheap indies, bundles, and discounts, the games i need to spend my day gaming and want to play are simply not that expensive. I am rarely interested in buying a completely new title, despite basically identifying as a core gamer. I assume a lot of people feel the same considering just how many awesome games came out in the last decade that even i as a really major gamer haven't gotten around to playing yet. | ||
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