US Politics Mega-thread - Page 819
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8986 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8986 Posts
On October 07 2018 05:56 Plansix wrote: She isn’t up for re-election until 2020. She is banking on the landscape being different by then. Okay. Well, hopefully her opponent remembers this and really hammers it home when the time comes. This shouldn't be forgiven. | ||
Introvert
United States4774 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
2020 will be a very different race for her, post Trump and post this. But Maine is a fickle state, so anything is possible. But any Republican banking on Obama era results in the era of Trump is a fool. | ||
Introvert
United States4774 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21713 Posts
Half the country just lives in an alternative reality and the politicization of the media means they are stuck there. And I don't see an end to it or how you could move towards fixing it when those who would need to do so are the ones in control of it. | ||
iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4335 Posts
On October 07 2018 05:50 Plansix wrote: Just remember, Collins called for Al Franken to resign soon after he was accused of sexual harassment. Her deep concern with due process is a new development. There was some great photographic evidence there though.Impossible for him to deny. Congratulations to Justice Kavanaugh! Only early 50s so should be good for 30 years hopefully! | ||
iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4335 Posts
Reid changed the law 5 years ago from requiring 60 senate votes to confirm a supreme court nominee to a simple majority.We also saw republicans use the ‘Biden rule’ to ignore Obamas Garland suggestion in his final year. The dems have been losing big league the past two years running and they’ll keep losing this November.Good times. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On October 07 2018 05:47 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: A week was too short. You may not have gotten the sexual assault charge, but the lies/perjury should have been enough. I'm assuming the people interviewed balked because they were spineless and didn't want their lives upended defending the masses from this. Oh come on. They didn't give a shit if he lied. The only thing that would have stopped him being confirmed was if the sexual assault allegation was 100% upheld. Even 60% probably wouldn't have done it. They did not give the faintest hint of a shit about lies. Why would they? On October 07 2018 06:47 Plansix wrote: The Biden rule doesn’t exist. It is literally a single statement he made in one speech that was never became anything. The Biden Rule is just a cover for McConnel’s tactics of abusing the power of the majority. Just like he did with the filibuster. I'd be generally surprised to learn that Nettles reads the posts in this thread, and doubly surprised to learn that he understood them, given he always sounds like he's talking to people from another thread from some other part of the internet. | ||
Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 07 2018 05:37 Plansix wrote: It turns out that being accused of sexual assault does not, in fact, ruin a man’s life. It appears to have had almost no impact on the outcome. *If that man has the president and half of the legislature protecting him. Let's not act like this is a typical scenario. | ||
m4ini
4215 Posts
Like, do you have to swear an oath to be the most obnoxious sore winner you could possibly be before you join the republicans? It's funny to see really, how "republicans" call everyone being annoyed snowflakes while rubbing some bullshit in, but cry like little bitches once they feel treated unfairly, where on earth is that coming from? Real men don't look at explosions. Little bitches do. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8986 Posts
On October 07 2018 07:10 m4ini wrote: Could someone explain to me why "republicans" seem to have the built in urge to constantly gloat if they accomplish something, regardless of how shitty or minor it is? Like, do you have to swear an oath to be the most obnoxious sore winner you could possibly be before you join the republicans? It's funny to see really, how "republicans" call everyone being annoyed snowflakes while rubbing some bullshit in, but cry like little bitches once they feel treated unfairly, where on earth is that coming from? Real men don't look at explosions. Little bitches do. m4ini asking the real questions. When a republican's bullshit card is pulled, they get real defensive and sensitive. But they get one of the worst SCJ and they act like they've just secured the future for a millennia. I really do think, if the Ds get their shit together and get control of both, they'll impeach Kav, nominate Garland (push him through), and see if it's worth it to remove Gorsuch as well, just to be petty. But I won't hold me breath on anything substantial happening. Like I said, this country has no future. | ||
melkor3
Austria50 Posts
On October 07 2018 04:48 Nouar wrote: Kavanaugh vote expected result : Yes : 50 No : 48 The Sergeant at arms will restore order in the gallery : 150 You are a funny guy xD | ||
Introvert
United States4774 Posts
On October 05 2018 15:54 On_Slaught wrote: Here's 10 for ya. 1. BK says in 2004 that he did not "personally" handle the judicial nomination of Judge Pryor and he "was not involved in the handling of his nomination." HOWEVER, emails show that he was involved in it before then. 4 emails show he is a liar. One, from 2003, literally was called "Pryor Working Group Contact List" which states that he should give the sender the contact info of "other person/groups that are going to be involved." The second literally says "Brett, at your request, I asked Matt to speak with Pryor about his interest" and that they should continue to discuss the matter going forward; The third shows he was sent an email saying there would be a meeting the following day about the Pryor nomination. Forth is an email he was sent inviting him to a conference call to coordinate Judge Pryors nomination. Copies of the emails below for reference. + Show Spoiler + 2. BK said in 2004 that he had never received any of the stolen Democratic documents by Miranda. HOWEVER, new email leaks show he absolutely "received" them. + Show Spoiler + 3. BK said in 2006 that he was not involved in the legal questions around detaining/torturing enemy combatants. HOWEVER, he recently admitted he was involved in discussions about access to counsel for detainees when meeting with Durbin. Durbin also claims there are emails that "support that fact." + Show Spoiler + 4. BK said last week that he had never been blackout drunk. Of course it's obvious to everyone why he has to say this. If he admitted to this then it would open the door to the possibility that Ford was telling the truth and he simply didn't remember. HOWEVER, there are a number of people coming out to say that this is flatly untrue. Their experiences with BK were with someone who would get drunk to the point of incoherence. Frankly, I don't even need their accounts to know this is bullshit. I'm not stupid or naive enough to believe that somebody who drank as much as this guy did (and whose best friend was an alcoholic) never drank to the point of blackout. Also, his friend Judge admits to getting blackout drunk back in high school in his book. Anyone really believe his best friend and drinking buddy wasn't doing the same? This is pure cover. 5. BK said last week that Bart O'Kavanaugh was a fictionalized character. HOWEVER, we now know his nickname back then was Bart. Also, the book references him puking after being drunk, something he not only admitted to being a regular occurrence in the hearings themselves but also in his 1983 letter. The reference to Bart in the book? Says he was "passed out after drinking." Obvious why he wouldn't be upfront about this. 6. BK said multiple times last week that all 4 people at the party said what Ford claimed never happened. HOWEVER, this is a misrepresentation of the facts resulting in a lie. What they said was they did not remember this happening. 7. BK said last week that "I have never attended a gathering like the one Dr. Ford describes in her allegation." HOWEVER, Ford simply describes a small gathering of friends with drinking. His own calendar shows these sorts of gatherings are were not uncommon. Why deflect something so simple? Why not just say "sure I went to some house parties like this but I don't remember this one?" It simply isn't credible that he "never attended" a gathering like the one Ford described. 8. BK said about Ford's claims last week that "[N]one of those gatherings included the group of people that Dr. Ford has identified. And as my calendars show, I was very precise about listing who was there; very precise." HOWEVER, Ford said that Mark Judge and PJ were there. We know MJ was his friend but his calendar also says on his July 1 calendar entry that he was hanging with PJ. That's 2 of the 3 men Ford said were at the party. + Show Spoiler + 9. BK said he got into Yale without connections. HOWEVER, we know his grandfather attended Yale, making him a legacy student. 10. BK, through his lawyer, said as part of his explanation of Renate Alumni, that he had merely kissed Renate. HOWEVER, she says they never kissed. It's worth noting that apparently in one of the other 'Renate Alumni' kids yearbooks it says "You need a date / and it’s getting late / so don’t hesitate / to call Renate." Not exactly something you'd expect to see if these kids and her were telling the truth about their promiscuity, but whatever. This doesn't even include things like his involvement of the Pickering judicial nomination and the legal questions behind warrantless wiretapping. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more people could point out. Guy is bad news and the legal community, at least, knows it. This article goes into a lot more of the fishy stuff and absurd deflections in many of his answers. His deflections are embarrassing when you dig into them. Nobody acts like this unless they have a guilty conscious and/or are trying to cover-up something. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/09/how-we-know-kavanaugh-is-lying I promised On_Slaught I would reply to his post, but we kind of moved on from the perjury discussion. I'm not sure if I will respond to any of the replies here, if there are any. It kind of seems pointless anyways, we're all in our corners. If you do decide to read this (it's not that long) remember that I don't care about dodges in congressional testimony, and if you do, I have bad news for you on how testimony from everyone works in Capitol Hill. You'd pretty much have to fire every judge there is. + Show Spoiler + 1-3. Ok, so for the first three I found the article I was looking for. Sorry that it’s mainly article of tweets, but sometimes people don’t feel translating their tweets into... articles. Instead of me dealing with it all again I’ll leave this here. But the basic point is, when you look at the context of the entire Q/A time he had with senators, it becomes far more clear what he means in each situation and it clearly doesn’t meet the bar for perjury or even really deception. https://abovethelaw.com/2018/09/in-defense-of-judge-brett-kavanaugh/ This is far from the only person/article defending his statements as not perjury, but it's the easiest to see links to the other issues. 4. For the drinking ones I actually defer to ReditusSum, who laid it out very well. Your assertion that you don’t believe he was never blackout drunk really is just an opinion. Kavanaugh claimed, and classmates supported (I think), that Kavanaugh had a weak stomach, perhaps he couldn’t down the amount of alcohol required before passing out instead. This is such an individual question that it boggles the mind that one could even conceive of impeaching him for it. I should point out very explicitly, because this seems lost on some people, that he never denied passing out or drinking too much. His denial was very specific. No blacking out, and no sexual assault. 5. This is just a dodge. “Bart O’Kavanaugh” almost certainly does refer to a fictionalized version of Kavanaugh. And it’s easy to see why he dodged because they were going to use tales from a book that are some blend of truth and story and try to hang him with it. As I said, deflections don’t interest me, especially when the hearing was going the way it was going. But it’s not a lie. 6. Kavanaugh used the word “refuted.” I assume that was intentional, since refute is a more slippery word than deny (though still strong), which you should note, is a word used only once by him in this context. This is the part of the statement that has everyone up in arms: Importantly her friend, Ms. Keyser, has not only denied knowledge of the party, Ms. Keyser said under penalty of felony she does not know me, does not recall ever being at a party with me ever. And my two male friends who were allegedly there, who knew me well, have told this committee under penalty of felony that they do not recall any such party and that I never did or would do anything like this. Dr. Ford’s allegation is not merely uncorroborated, it is refuted by the very people she says were there, including by a long-time friend of hers. Refuted. Merely sentences before, he explicitly says that she “denies knowledge of the party” and then makes the point that she says she “does not recall” ever being at a party with him. He then acknowledges his two friends also “deny knowledge” of the party. If his intent was to deceive then he did so badly by stating exactly what everyone is criticizing him for ignoring, when he said it mere sentences before! He is careful to accurately recount what they said, including denial vs. “I don’t remember” so I assume the choice of the word “refute” is likewise intentional. And in the context of “he said, she said” I don’t recall there ever being a party like that” is pretty %(*&ing strong. Which is why Ford went on to blame Keyser’s health issues. I suppose you could get more angry over this one, just because this was in his prepared statement and thus a strong word choice like that might rub you the wrong way. 7. This is really reaching. Ford had very few details, but there were a few. A general location, with a specific group of people. He denies a gathering at which it was just the four of them near the country club. Here he is denying a specific charge and now you are giving him grief. The word “like” is really important, and it does good work here. 8. This is related to the above. As his comments about “precision” make clear, he denies a party withthese particular circumstances. This line should be dropped entirely, Ford’s own team says that the July 1st date is not the one (although how someone with such memory problems could know, I’m not sure). Also, at that party was Garrett, whom she was apparently dating at the time. It’d be odd for this to be the party in question and Ford to forget him. They did interview him, by the way, and judging by the way the Democrats have reacted, he must have denied any knowledge of this assault as well. + Show Spoiler + The calendars show a few weekday gatherings at friends’ houses after a workout or just to meet up and have some beers. But none of those gatherings included the group of people that Dr. Ford has identified. And as my calendars show, I was very precise about listing who was there; very precise. And keeping — keep in mind, my calendars also were diaries of sorts, forward-looking and backward-looking, just like my dad’s. You can see, for example, that I crossed out missed workouts and the canceled doctor’s appointments, and that I listed the precise people who had shown up for certain events. The calendars are obviously not dispositive on their own, but they are another piece of evidence for you to consider. 9. Context Context Context. The relevant exchange: HIRONO: So the answer is yes. I am running out of time. You know, we only five minutes, so let me get to something else. In your Fox News interview, you said that you, quote, “always treated women with dignity and respect,” end quote, and that in high school you never, quote, “drank so much that you couldn’t remember what happened the night before.” Would you say the same thing about your college life? KAVANAUGH: Yes. HIRONO: So I’d like to read your statements from people who knew you in college. And as … KAVANAUGH: Can I say one thing? HIRONO: … Senator Coons noted … KAVANAUGH: OK. HIRONO: … that James Roche said, your roommate, “Although Brett was normally reserved, he was a notably heavy drinker, even by the standards of the time. And he became aggressive and belligerent when he was drunk.” So is your former college roommate lying? KAVANAUGH: I would refer you to what I said in the sealed or redacted portion about his relationship with the other two roommates, and I’m going to leave it at that. I will say – Senator, you were asking about college. I got into Yale Law School. That’s the number one law school in the country. I had no connections there. I got there by busting my tail in college. HIRONO: I feel insulted, as a Georgetown graduate. (LAUGHTER) KAVANAUGH: Excuse me? HIRONO: But go on. KAVANAUGH: I’m sorry. It’s ranked number one, that doesn’t mean it’s number one. (LAUGHTER) Yes, we know that his grandfather went to Yale as an undergrad. But what Brett is quite obviously saying here is that he didn’t have any connections to the law school and Hirono understands this when she mentions Georgetown. Even if his grandfather went to the law school (haven’t seen anything about that) Kavanaugh is speaking in tense about the 1980s. That right there would kill any bit of perjury, but I think that, especially if his grandfather didn’t attend the law school, then this statement was factual. It’s not even deflective or dodgy, it’s straight up true. 10. Finally, this one. This is actually the most iffy to, and when the lady was told what people thought it meant she seemed to think it was possible. I’m drawing my points on this item from this NYT story. Notably , no one who actually used the phrase claims it had a sexual connotation, and all deny any sexual relationship, her included. The only people who claim it was sexual are A) Avanatti when he made that tweet (the other two parts of that tweet were blown up, as you know). B) classmates not directly involved. And it is certainly plausible. Kavanaugh indeed acknowledges that it looks bad and calls it “clumsy.” One thing in particular we’re sad about: one of our good — one of our good female friends who we would admire and went to dances with had her names used on the yearbook page with the term “alumnus.” That yearbook reference was clumsily intended to show affection, and that she was one of us. But in this circus, the media’s interpreted the term is related to sex. It was not related to sex. As the woman herself noted to the media on the record, she and I never had any six — sexual interaction of — at all. I’m so sorry to her for that yearbook reference. This may sound a bit trivial, given all that we are here for, but one thing I want to try to make sure — sure of in the future is my friendship with her. She was and is a great person. As for the little rhyme, that could be more innocent, this is from the story: Ms. Dolphin was aware that members of Judge Kavanaugh’s clique were reciting that poem, according to a person familiar with her thinking. She told the football players that she found it offensive, believing it made her seem like a cheap date, and she asked them to stop. Nonetheless, she did sign the letter attesting to his character, before she saw the yearbook references. So at least in her mind those things aren’t related and that's just assholes 17 year old boys being themselves. I think, given how the other two phrases that people thought were surely sexual (“FFFF” and “Devil’s Triangle”) turned out to be not sexual at all, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Kavanaugh on this one. *** As a reminder, despite what some people in this thread have been saying, before these allegations Kavanaugh was considered a mainstream, extremely well qualified potential nominee that any Republican president would have picked. He had the pedigree, the history, and the temperament. He was known for being intellectual and well-prepared, as well as being a decent human being. Add to that the fact that there still exists no allegation or story of any kind from his adult/professional life. Apparently he was this terrible person in college but even if that's true, he's not that man now, and there is no doubt about that. In the end, I think David French at NR makes a succinct case. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/kavanaugh-case-for-confirmation-allegations-explained/ _____ Transcript quotes taken from https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/09/27/kavanaugh-hearing-transcript/?utm_term=.954e17bc5265 | ||
Emnjay808
United States10656 Posts
If someone accused my dad of rape and their only proof was that they went to the same college. I would call for their fucking head. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands21713 Posts
On October 07 2018 08:15 Emnjay808 wrote: For one there is a difference between 'we found no proof that it happened after talking to 10 people' and 'she knowingly lied about it happening', and secondly no one is going to go after Ford because to do so would cause another investigation which would go much deeper then this one did and risk finding she was right all along.Can someone tldr me what’s happening to Professor Ford? Surely she will be held accountable for these accusations. BK and his family now has to live with this. If someone accused my dad of rape and their only proof was that they went to the same college. I would call for their fucking head. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8986 Posts
On October 07 2018 08:15 Emnjay808 wrote: Can someone tldr me what’s happening to Professor Ford? Surely she will be held accountable for these accusations. BK and his family now has to live with this. If someone accused my dad of rape and their only proof was that they went to the same college. I would call for their fucking head. This is why when it really does happen, no one comes forward. You are part of the problem. | ||
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