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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5363

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27110 Posts
November 20 2025 10:35 GMT
#107241
On November 20 2025 10:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Now, at the beginning of the year i had Real GDP growing at 2% in 2025. Let's see how this projection has played out so far. It is late November so 2025 projections by reasonable authors should be damn close.
https://www.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/topics/economy/us-economic-forecast/united-states-outlook-analysis.html

the official Deloitte projection as of September 30th is:
1.8% real GDP growth in 2025
1.4% real GDP growth in 2026
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2025 10:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 20 2025 10:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On November 20 2025 10:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 20 2025 10:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On November 20 2025 05:33 maybenexttime wrote:
On November 20 2025 04:48 LightSpectra wrote:
On November 20 2025 01:21 Razyda wrote:
Yeah mate, Democrats supported slavery, everyone who cries about Republicans being racist is, how did that go? "either clinically stupid or acting in supervillain-tier bad faith."


Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently.

To say nothing of the stupidity of comparing something Trump did this decade with something that happened a century and a half ago.

Or whose supporters wave the Confederate flag nowadays.

You don't know who is supporting what.

Of course we do.

ok, great. am i a Parti Quebecois supporter? i mean.. you just "know".

We're talking about whether the present-day Republicans or the present-day Democrats are more likely to support what the Confederacy/South stood for lol.

i am talking about assessing my support level in relation to a flag. you do not know what i support. you do not know what the confederate flag wavers support or not support. i do not know either. if i were waving a confederate flag you would not know.. if i were burning a Canadian flag you would not know anything either.

you know i'm stirring up trouble... that's about it.

One can take a wild stab at it. Humans are quite good at generalising and noticing patterns, even if they ain’t gonna 100% be on the money every time.

If I see some chick with teal hair and a bunch of piercings, I’m not sticking my house on it but neither am I going ‘Hm, it’s a 50:50 shot she’s liberal or conservative.’

Hey this bloke has a Palestinian flag hanging from his house, I wonder if he’s pro-Israel?

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium5185 Posts
November 20 2025 11:01 GMT
#107242
Your public actions says something about how nuanced your take is usually. If you start burning flags, waving flags, march with certain groups,.. there's a whole set of ideas that can probably be tied to you. The less pronounced the action, the more nuanced it becomes imo. Therefore, it's only very radicalized that start hurting/killing people.
I don't need many exchanges - even a few sentences will do - for me to understand what someone's underlying ideology usually is.
Taxes are for Terrans
Razyda
Profile Joined March 2013
1036 Posts
November 20 2025 14:00 GMT
#107243
On November 20 2025 04:48 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2025 01:21 Razyda wrote:
Yeah mate, Democrats supported slavery, everyone who cries about Republicans being racist is, how did that go? "either clinically stupid or acting in supervillain-tier bad faith."


Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently.

To say nothing of the stupidity of comparing something Trump did this decade with something that happened a century and a half ago.


You were the one who brought quote from like 80s or 90s in reference to today. Regarding to who Trump gave medal, you may wanna remember Obama gave one to Clinton. If that hurts, then well, "You better get some ice on that".
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States2816 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-20 14:22:30
November 20 2025 14:22 GMT
#107244
Trump gave Rush Limbaugh a the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2020. Am I understanding your position correctly that the current POTUS giving an award to someone who celebrated the death of gay people is exactly comparable to the political positions of the Democratic Party in the 19th century? If so, then alright, you got me. I'll never vote for James Buchanan if he runs for office again.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom1451 Posts
November 20 2025 14:41 GMT
#107245
On November 20 2025 23:00 Razyda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2025 04:48 LightSpectra wrote:
On November 20 2025 01:21 Razyda wrote:
Yeah mate, Democrats supported slavery, everyone who cries about Republicans being racist is, how did that go? "either clinically stupid or acting in supervillain-tier bad faith."


Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently.

To say nothing of the stupidity of comparing something Trump did this decade with something that happened a century and a half ago.


You were the one who brought quote from like 80s or 90s in reference to today. Regarding to who Trump gave medal, you may wanna remember Obama gave one to Clinton. If that hurts, then well, "You better get some ice on that".

You didn't answer the question.

"Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently."

Try again.
puking up frothing vitriolic sarcastic spittle
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17682 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-20 16:31:44
November 20 2025 16:31 GMT
#107246
When explaining where all the bazillions of new auto assembly jobs were coming from ... the first country Trump said they were coming from was Canada. Trump continues to curb-stomp poor little Governor Justin Trudeau.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46163 Posts
November 20 2025 16:50 GMT
#107247
On November 21 2025 01:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
When explaining where all the bazillions of new auto assembly jobs were coming from ... the first country Trump said they were coming from was Canada. Trump continues to curb-stomp poor little Governor Justin Trudeau.

Trudeau isn't even the Prime Minister of Canada anymore. That'd be like saying that Putin "continues to" run circles around Biden or Obama.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States455 Posts
November 20 2025 16:50 GMT
#107248
On November 20 2025 10:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
You don't know who is supporting what.

I can show up at the next Parti Quebecois rally and burn a Canadian flag while screaming a bunch of national quebec slogans and celebrating the death of Pierre Laporte. Does this have the support of the average PQ voter? i doubt it. Should a PQ member back down from forging a better relation with the Federal Government because some random clowns who want to make them look bad showed up burning a flag. Nah.

it is a great way for me to discredit their movement though.
On November 20 2025 10:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i am talking about assessing my support level in relation to a flag. you do not know what i support. you do not know what the confederate flag wavers support or not support. i do not know either. if i were waving a confederate flag you would not know.. if i were burning a Canadian flag you would not know anything either.

you know i'm stirring up trouble... that's about it.
The play is plain guilt by association with some extra bells and whistles. The best way to learn what JimmyJRaynor thinks is to ask him (you). The fake alternative is to pretend to notice whatever crank was at the last rally or some plurality of rallies (Parti Quebecois and Canadian flag burning was a good hypothetical) and allege that your movement is tainted and so are you. Then, they allege you haven't condemned that protestor or faction enough recently, or that you're secretly one of them, or if you had good moral character you would refuse to associate with them in the future. It's the tired habit of using the fringe to attack the mainstream, and sometimes called nutpicking.

It equally applies if another thinks Democrats really love Jeffrey Epstein and excuse pedophilia, because Democratic Rep Plaskett took funds from him and refused to return or disavow, or because Democrats refuse to censure Plaskett for texting Epstein at hearings and seeking his help long after his crimes were known. Or Democrats are still slavers and segregationists for rehabilitating klansman Robert Byrd, who was still a Democrat and was still in the Senate for the Obamacare vote. Just reject it no matter who's doing it, and for the record, I don't think Razyda was.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44170 Posts
November 20 2025 16:59 GMT
#107249
On November 21 2025 01:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
When explaining where all the bazillions of new auto assembly jobs were coming from ... the first country Trump said they were coming from was Canada. Trump continues to curb-stomp poor little Governor Justin Trudeau.

You’re so fucking weird.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany1160 Posts
November 20 2025 17:20 GMT
#107250
Wait has he stopped to be the 'MURICAnadian?
"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27110 Posts
November 20 2025 17:36 GMT
#107251
What, no Seinfeld reference?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9887 Posts
November 20 2025 18:28 GMT
#107252
I'm very surprised our peace loving, 'keep violence out of our politics' republicans haven't said anything about Trump calling for the deaths of 6 Democratic veterans in congress, for urging members of the military to refuse unlawful orders.

The post in question reads "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH!" and followed a string of reposts from Trump of deranged remarks from MAGA social media users. One of the posts that Trump shared read "HANG THEM GEORGE WASHINGTON WOULD !!"

Is it okay for the President to call for the deaths of of his political opponents?
RIP Meatloaf <3
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States2816 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-20 18:38:57
November 20 2025 18:37 GMT
#107253
On November 21 2025 03:28 Jockmcplop wrote:
I'm very surprised our peace loving, 'keep violence out of our politics' republicans haven't said anything about Trump calling for the deaths of 6 Democratic veterans in congress, for urging members of the military to refuse unlawful orders.

The post in question reads "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH!" and followed a string of reposts from Trump of deranged remarks from MAGA social media users. One of the posts that Trump shared read "HANG THEM GEORGE WASHINGTON WOULD !!"

Is it okay for the President to call for the deaths of of his political opponents?


I guarantee that the ones that wept the most blood over how people reacted to Charlie Kirk are either going to say nothing, or the most lukewarm shit you'll ever hear in your life (e.g. "Yeah I condemn it, so what now libtard?"), or they're going to cheer it on.

Because, and I'm sorry to repeat this yet again but it's worth bearing in mind: fascists think hypocrisy is based. They want to live in a world where they're allowed to be openly hypocritical. Internal consistency is something for untermenschen to worry about. “Conscience is a Jewish invention; it is a blemish like circumcision.”
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6275 Posts
November 20 2025 19:20 GMT
#107254
On November 20 2025 23:41 MJG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2025 23:00 Razyda wrote:
On November 20 2025 04:48 LightSpectra wrote:
On November 20 2025 01:21 Razyda wrote:
Yeah mate, Democrats supported slavery, everyone who cries about Republicans being racist is, how did that go? "either clinically stupid or acting in supervillain-tier bad faith."


Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently.

To say nothing of the stupidity of comparing something Trump did this decade with something that happened a century and a half ago.


You were the one who brought quote from like 80s or 90s in reference to today. Regarding to who Trump gave medal, you may wanna remember Obama gave one to Clinton. If that hurts, then well, "You better get some ice on that".

You didn't answer the question.

"Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently."

Try again.

When slavery was legal, most states period voted for Democrats. New York, California, and Illinois voted for Democrats.

The South was significantly Democrat for 100 years after as well, and the life of free blacks in the North didn't become suddenly paradise in 1865. They had a hard time everywhere. There was more racism in the South because there's more racism in all directions when there's more opportunities for it, which simply occurs where there's more racial diversity. Almost all blacks lived in the South and a tiny fraction of the North's population wasn't white. The population distribution didn't change much until migrations happened decades later.

It's not that in 1860 all the good people in the country lived in one half of it, and were in one party, and all the bad people lived in the other half and were in a different party, and they magically all reversed and switched parties over 100 years while still living in the same places. When Strom Thurmond won ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES! with 2.5% of the national vote, the takeaway is that a small swing constituency motivated largely by voting against integration was part of swinging the party alignment of a region. At one time. Clearly people are not voting Republican today because they are protesting the 1948 integration of the armed forces. The reason the Confederacy was bad is not something like they were mean to black people so everything their region does in perpetuity must be opposed because it's a manifestation of hating black people. There is and always has been racism in both parties. The reason the Confederacy was bad is because you can't start civil wars and try to leave the country when you don't like the federal government because you think it doesn't apply to you if you don't get your way. And the Civil War decided that in blood. That's the problem with the direction of Democrat politics, that is shared in common with the Democrats who seceded originally, trending towards sundering the Union when they don't get what they want.

The Civil War is over. The truth is neither modern party would support the Confederacy in the 1860s. Probably neither would support the Union either. And it's not the 1860s so hypothetical right-side-of-history opposition can't excuse racism or sedition in the here and now from the left. The analogy to show why such theorizing anyway doesn't carry any moral weight is easy: Would Netanyahu's government be more likely to be on the side of the Axis or Allies in 1944? They must be doing things right then?
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States2816 Posts
November 20 2025 19:22 GMT
#107255
To follow up on what oBlade just said, the U.S. Coast Guard will no longer classify swastikas, nooses as hate symbols: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/11/20/coast-guard-swastika-noose/
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1952 Posts
November 20 2025 19:23 GMT
#107256
On November 21 2025 04:20 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2025 23:41 MJG wrote:
On November 20 2025 23:00 Razyda wrote:
On November 20 2025 04:48 LightSpectra wrote:
On November 20 2025 01:21 Razyda wrote:
Yeah mate, Democrats supported slavery, everyone who cries about Republicans being racist is, how did that go? "either clinically stupid or acting in supervillain-tier bad faith."


Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently.

To say nothing of the stupidity of comparing something Trump did this decade with something that happened a century and a half ago.


You were the one who brought quote from like 80s or 90s in reference to today. Regarding to who Trump gave medal, you may wanna remember Obama gave one to Clinton. If that hurts, then well, "You better get some ice on that".

You didn't answer the question.

"Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently."

Try again.

When slavery was legal, most states period voted for Democrats. New York, California, and Illinois voted for Democrats.

The South was significantly Democrat for 100 years after as well, and the life of free blacks in the North didn't become suddenly paradise in 1865. They had a hard time everywhere. There was more racism in the South because there's more racism in all directions when there's more opportunities for it, which simply occurs where there's more racial diversity. Almost all blacks lived in the South and a tiny fraction of the North's population wasn't white. The population distribution didn't change much until migrations happened decades later.

It's not that in 1860 all the good people in the country lived in one half of it, and were in one party, and all the bad people lived in the other half and were in a different party, and they magically all reversed and switched parties over 100 years while still living in the same places. When Strom Thurmond won ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES! with 2.5% of the national vote, the takeaway is that a small swing constituency motivated largely by voting against integration was part of swinging the party alignment of a region. At one time. Clearly people are not voting Republican today because they are protesting the 1948 integration of the armed forces. The reason the Confederacy was bad is not something like they were mean to black people so everything their region does in perpetuity must be opposed because it's a manifestation of hating black people. There is and always has been racism in both parties. The reason the Confederacy was bad is because you can't start civil wars and try to leave the country when you don't like the federal government because you think it doesn't apply to you if you don't get your way. And the Civil War decided that in blood. That's the problem with the direction of Democrat politics, that is shared in common with the Democrats who seceded originally, trending towards sundering the Union when they don't get what they want.

The Civil War is over. The truth is neither modern party would support the Confederacy in the 1860s. Probably neither would support the Union either. And it's not the 1860s so hypothetical right-side-of-history opposition can't excuse racism or sedition in the here and now from the left. The analogy to show why such theorizing anyway doesn't carry any moral weight is easy: Would Netanyahu's government be more likely to be on the side of the Axis or Allies in 1944? They must be doing things right then?

So you agree it was a terrible zinger for Razyda to try and fail to land.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11910 Posts
November 20 2025 20:17 GMT
#107257
On November 21 2025 04:22 LightSpectra wrote:
To follow up on what oBlade just said, the U.S. Coast Guard will no longer classify swastikas, nooses as hate symbols: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/11/20/coast-guard-swastika-noose/


I fully expect them to classify rainbow flags as hate symbols tomorrow.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4999 Posts
November 21 2025 02:46 GMT
#107258
On November 20 2025 17:07 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
Yes. And that election was after when clear cracks were forming in the Democratic heartland in the South. Those cracks were not a result of amazing economic growth in the South, it is clear that the primary animus were the increasing amount of civil liberties given to black Americans.

Strom Thurmond, a Democrat in the South, entered an election to specifically spite Truman, specifically his goal to eliminate segregation in the US army. Him and his Dixiecrats managed to win four southern states and gain one faithless elector during an election prior to Eisenhower like you mentioned.

It goes without saying that these Dixiecrats, who broke ranks for openly racist political motivations, would influence how southern Democratic politicians and supporters would move. You can only look at the number of faithless electors during that period that specifically threw their vote towards Dixiecrats promoting segregation.

Like I said, the Civil Rights Act voting split was not of party lines like you might expect in 2025. It’s was solely geographical. You can very well argue that both major parties more or less flipped their geographical and demographic base over time. Which is what makes the thesis from Johnston and Shafer an interesting, very likely correct to a degree but also mind numbering used all the time to downplay the nasty parts of post-war US election history and the context of the Dixiecrats breaking from the rest of the party.

What they did was kinda like the countless Napoleon biographies that talk up his skill as a general while hand waving away just how important the French Revolution was at generating a culture that could allow the development of competent officers. Those biographies are potentially an interesting read but they always get tunnel vision because the authors have a claim they want to make (Napoleon is the greatest European general) and can’t do anything that might diminish that claim.


This is really non-responsive. Part of the problem with the (simplified) party switch narrative is how long it takes to actually happen. Eisenhower begins it, but what happens is the South slowly becomes more competitive. And as I said before, it takes decades for the effects to be felt at the district level. But whatever, the point is that if we are going to criticize any view for being myopic it clearly has to be the view the book takes issue with.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4999 Posts
November 21 2025 02:47 GMT
#107259
btw the Coast Guard says the story is about not banning swastikas or nooses is not true.

https://x.com/USCG/status/1991597087595851904?s=20

https://x.com/USCG/status/1991697288977072231?s=20

The linked document:

https://media.defense.gov/2025/Nov/20/2003827588/-1/-1/0/GENERAL ORDER MEMO SIGNED.PDF
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom1451 Posts
November 21 2025 07:19 GMT
#107260
On November 21 2025 04:20 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2025 23:41 MJG wrote:
On November 20 2025 23:00 Razyda wrote:
On November 20 2025 04:48 LightSpectra wrote:
On November 20 2025 01:21 Razyda wrote:
Yeah mate, Democrats supported slavery, everyone who cries about Republicans being racist is, how did that go? "either clinically stupid or acting in supervillain-tier bad faith."


Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently.

To say nothing of the stupidity of comparing something Trump did this decade with something that happened a century and a half ago.


You were the one who brought quote from like 80s or 90s in reference to today. Regarding to who Trump gave medal, you may wanna remember Obama gave one to Clinton. If that hurts, then well, "You better get some ice on that".

You didn't answer the question.

"Please remind me which states voted for Democrats when slavery was still legal, and how many of them are solid Republican states now. I'll wait patiently."

Try again.

When slavery was legal, most states period voted for Democrats. New York, California, and Illinois voted for Democrats.

The South was significantly Democrat for 100 years after as well, and the life of free blacks in the North didn't become suddenly paradise in 1865. They had a hard time everywhere. There was more racism in the South because there's more racism in all directions when there's more opportunities for it, which simply occurs where there's more racial diversity. Almost all blacks lived in the South and a tiny fraction of the North's population wasn't white. The population distribution didn't change much until migrations happened decades later.

It's not that in 1860 all the good people in the country lived in one half of it, and were in one party, and all the bad people lived in the other half and were in a different party, and they magically all reversed and switched parties over 100 years while still living in the same places. When Strom Thurmond won ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES! with 2.5% of the national vote, the takeaway is that a small swing constituency motivated largely by voting against integration was part of swinging the party alignment of a region. At one time. Clearly people are not voting Republican today because they are protesting the 1948 integration of the armed forces. The reason the Confederacy was bad is not something like they were mean to black people so everything their region does in perpetuity must be opposed because it's a manifestation of hating black people. There is and always has been racism in both parties. The reason the Confederacy was bad is because you can't start civil wars and try to leave the country when you don't like the federal government because you think it doesn't apply to you if you don't get your way. And the Civil War decided that in blood. That's the problem with the direction of Democrat politics, that is shared in common with the Democrats who seceded originally, trending towards sundering the Union when they don't get what they want.

The Civil War is over. The truth is neither modern party would support the Confederacy in the 1860s. Probably neither would support the Union either. And it's not the 1860s so hypothetical right-side-of-history opposition can't excuse racism or sedition in the here and now from the left. The analogy to show why such theorizing anyway doesn't carry any moral weight is easy: Would Netanyahu's government be more likely to be on the side of the Axis or Allies in 1944? They must be doing things right then?

So you agree that "Democrats supported slavery" is a terrible line to take in 2025?

That's all I needed.

Thanks.

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