|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On September 19 2018 23:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2018 23:43 JimmiC wrote:More talk of Military intervention in Venezuela. Canada has said that they are not willing to sign a pact that says they won't intervene but they are still strongly against it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-venezuela-military-intervention-1.4829074Venezuelan army went to a Colombian Island and kidnapped 3 people, Maduro says it is Venezuelan but it has been under Colombian control since 1931. Columbia is considering its options and discussing with the international community on how to respond. I have no idea what the Americans will do, they seem very split. Maduro also hurt his image within Venezuela as his people starve, it is now up to 30% of the people eating only one meal a day with 4 Million leaving the country. He filmed a video with a famous Turkish chef eating tons and smoking cigars https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/viral-video-of-venezuelan-president-with-turkish-celebrity-chef-sparks-outrage/ar-BBNvDGM?li=AAggFp5Maduro is also claiming that the migration is "normal", while everyone else in the world is calling it a Syria level crisis. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45407617I'm not sure what can be done, people can't rise up because they are too hungry and hundreds if not thousands have been shot and killed for protesting with thousands more jailed for disagreeing. Also many more that would have have the ability to stand up have fled the country. I don't believe an armed response would fix, in the past it has not worked out well for countries. The power vacuum created is usually filled but someone just as bad just with different political ideals. They are trying to get help from China to get their oil production up but China is skeptical about it with Venezuela missing so many payments. They have put another 5 billion in and gained a 49% ownership of some of the oil fields. There is also a lot of talk from the opposition (which has all fled to either Spain, Columbia or other countries) that it is now a Narco dictatorship with the strings being pulled by mafia and cartels. I'm not sure how this ends but it likely will become a bigger and bigger problem. With the USA reducing it's number of refugees it allows down to 30k and the countries around Venezuela not having the money or space to deal with the millions fleeing, this story is not going away and is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. So let's say we actually do intervene militarily. Then what? We basically just build them a voting/political system, give them some billions of dollars a year, then they just kind of figure it out? I hear talk of military action but I don't actually know what this looks like for the US in a more "complete" sense. What somewhat interests me is the US going well beyond that and making Venezuela somewhat of a colony. I think we could extract a lot of value out of Venezuela and they are kinda shitting the bed without us right now.
The fantastic historical record of benevolent colonialism suggests you might have hit the right line of thought.
EDIT: also the idea that Venezuela could conceivably become another 'Syria type' situation doesn't make any sense
|
|
|
On September 20 2018 12:01 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2018 23:52 Mohdoo wrote:On September 19 2018 23:43 JimmiC wrote:More talk of Military intervention in Venezuela. Canada has said that they are not willing to sign a pact that says they won't intervene but they are still strongly against it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-venezuela-military-intervention-1.4829074Venezuelan army went to a Colombian Island and kidnapped 3 people, Maduro says it is Venezuelan but it has been under Colombian control since 1931. Columbia is considering its options and discussing with the international community on how to respond. I have no idea what the Americans will do, they seem very split. Maduro also hurt his image within Venezuela as his people starve, it is now up to 30% of the people eating only one meal a day with 4 Million leaving the country. He filmed a video with a famous Turkish chef eating tons and smoking cigars https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/viral-video-of-venezuelan-president-with-turkish-celebrity-chef-sparks-outrage/ar-BBNvDGM?li=AAggFp5Maduro is also claiming that the migration is "normal", while everyone else in the world is calling it a Syria level crisis. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45407617I'm not sure what can be done, people can't rise up because they are too hungry and hundreds if not thousands have been shot and killed for protesting with thousands more jailed for disagreeing. Also many more that would have have the ability to stand up have fled the country. I don't believe an armed response would fix, in the past it has not worked out well for countries. The power vacuum created is usually filled but someone just as bad just with different political ideals. They are trying to get help from China to get their oil production up but China is skeptical about it with Venezuela missing so many payments. They have put another 5 billion in and gained a 49% ownership of some of the oil fields. There is also a lot of talk from the opposition (which has all fled to either Spain, Columbia or other countries) that it is now a Narco dictatorship with the strings being pulled by mafia and cartels. I'm not sure how this ends but it likely will become a bigger and bigger problem. With the USA reducing it's number of refugees it allows down to 30k and the countries around Venezuela not having the money or space to deal with the millions fleeing, this story is not going away and is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. So let's say we actually do intervene militarily. Then what? We basically just build them a voting/political system, give them some billions of dollars a year, then they just kind of figure it out? I hear talk of military action but I don't actually know what this looks like for the US in a more "complete" sense. What somewhat interests me is the US going well beyond that and making Venezuela somewhat of a colony. I think we could extract a lot of value out of Venezuela and they are kinda shitting the bed without us right now. The fantastic historical record of benevolent colonialism suggests you might have hit the right line of thought. EDIT: also the idea that Venezuela could conceivably become another 'Syria type' situation doesn't make any sense
Syria? Probably not that bad because you don't have the Saud/Iran rivalry. But as bad as the Columbian Conflict? Hell yes. 220,000 killed is not inconceivable when you had that long running example next door.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_conflict
|
On September 20 2018 12:11 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2018 12:01 kollin wrote:On September 19 2018 23:52 Mohdoo wrote:On September 19 2018 23:43 JimmiC wrote:More talk of Military intervention in Venezuela. Canada has said that they are not willing to sign a pact that says they won't intervene but they are still strongly against it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-venezuela-military-intervention-1.4829074Venezuelan army went to a Colombian Island and kidnapped 3 people, Maduro says it is Venezuelan but it has been under Colombian control since 1931. Columbia is considering its options and discussing with the international community on how to respond. I have no idea what the Americans will do, they seem very split. Maduro also hurt his image within Venezuela as his people starve, it is now up to 30% of the people eating only one meal a day with 4 Million leaving the country. He filmed a video with a famous Turkish chef eating tons and smoking cigars https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/viral-video-of-venezuelan-president-with-turkish-celebrity-chef-sparks-outrage/ar-BBNvDGM?li=AAggFp5Maduro is also claiming that the migration is "normal", while everyone else in the world is calling it a Syria level crisis. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45407617I'm not sure what can be done, people can't rise up because they are too hungry and hundreds if not thousands have been shot and killed for protesting with thousands more jailed for disagreeing. Also many more that would have have the ability to stand up have fled the country. I don't believe an armed response would fix, in the past it has not worked out well for countries. The power vacuum created is usually filled but someone just as bad just with different political ideals. They are trying to get help from China to get their oil production up but China is skeptical about it with Venezuela missing so many payments. They have put another 5 billion in and gained a 49% ownership of some of the oil fields. There is also a lot of talk from the opposition (which has all fled to either Spain, Columbia or other countries) that it is now a Narco dictatorship with the strings being pulled by mafia and cartels. I'm not sure how this ends but it likely will become a bigger and bigger problem. With the USA reducing it's number of refugees it allows down to 30k and the countries around Venezuela not having the money or space to deal with the millions fleeing, this story is not going away and is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. So let's say we actually do intervene militarily. Then what? We basically just build them a voting/political system, give them some billions of dollars a year, then they just kind of figure it out? I hear talk of military action but I don't actually know what this looks like for the US in a more "complete" sense. What somewhat interests me is the US going well beyond that and making Venezuela somewhat of a colony. I think we could extract a lot of value out of Venezuela and they are kinda shitting the bed without us right now. The fantastic historical record of benevolent colonialism suggests you might have hit the right line of thought. EDIT: also the idea that Venezuela could conceivably become another 'Syria type' situation doesn't make any sense How so they already have a mass exodus, starvation, killing of own people. If Columbia intervene s who knows how bad it gets.
The reason Syrias war is so intractable is because it's a proxy war between Saudi Arabia, NATO etc on one side and Iran and Russia and the other. The length of the war has exacerbated the humanitarian crisis, which, while tragic, has mainly stuck out amidst all the other equally horrendous humanitarian crises because of the destabilising effect it has had on European politics. There's no way Venezuela ends up as a multipolar battlefield or a crisis which similarly threatens the literal fabric of the US political system (think Texas closing its borders to non-US citizens). It's alarmism to think otherwise.
|
Wouldn't it be favourable to build a broad political coalition against the Venezuelan government? Military action will not lead to a positive outcome in my opinion but showing the people of that country that not only evil America but in fact Europe, Asia and their neighbouring countries have the same stance on Maduro should erode his support.
And as to the prime directive: it's not an alien civilisation contacted for the first time. That should be obvious.
|
On September 20 2018 14:34 schaf wrote:
Wouldn't it be favourable to build a broad political coalition against the Venezuelan government? Military action will not lead to a positive outcome in my opinion but showing the people of that country that not only evil America but in fact Europe, Asia and their neighbouring countries have the same stance on Maduro should erode his support.
And as to the prime directive: it's not an alien civilisation contacted for the first time. That should be obvious.
It also doesn't apply to the situation because the US government (especially under Trump) is clearly not well intentioned.
By the way, I found this article the other day which claims that the US and Saudis collaborated to flood the oil market in order to "crash" the Russian and Iranian economies. One of the results was the collapse of the Venezuelan economy, since 96% of its exports consists of oil.
I was reading about US-Venezuela relations and supposedly they're not quite so bad as they're sometimes claimed to be. 40% of its oil is exported to the US. And more of its population would view the US favorably than not. There wasn't anything comparable to the economic embargo against Cuba. I would speculate this is related to oil imports and the danger of disrupting this relationship. Venezuela has the world's largest proven oil reserves.
But the relationship has drastically worsened since the Maduro presidency. There have been new sanctions, and there has been talk of invasion. John Bolton joined the administration and he is an advocate of some sort of regime change. And the US has become drastically less dependent on Venezuelan oil imports.
|
|
|
|
|
maybe we wont get any more supreme court justices until 2021
|
On September 20 2018 23:28 IgnE wrote:
maybe we wont get any more supreme court justices until 2021
I’m sure Merrick Garland could get confirmed if he was nominated.
|
There is a lot going on but today it is being reported that we lost 1500 children who’s parents we are trying to deport. Also, in other news the White House took millions out of cancer and aids research to pay for this state funded child abuse policy. Literally stealing money from cancer research.
|
|
|
The idea of Kavanaugh being on SCOTUS becomes more unpalatable every day. Now we learn from Chua, an influential prof at Yale and the number one person for getting a Kavanaugh clerkship, that "it was no accident" that all of his clerks "looked like models." She would tell women to dress up and even asked one to send her pictures of her outfit before meeting with Kavanaugh. Guy is a fucking creep.
Robert's must be having an aneurism concerning the damage this is going to do to the courts reputation. He is the most disliked SCOTUS nominee ever and that will only get worse if he is voted in without a full investigation.
Source:
|
McCaskill has stated that she's a firm no on Kavanaugh, so there's one DINO down.
|
On September 21 2018 01:00 On_Slaught wrote:The idea of Kavanaugh being on SCOTUS becomes more unpalatable every day. Now we learn from Chua, an influential prof at Yale and the number one person for getting a Kavanaugh clerkship, that "it was no accident" that all of his clerks "looked like models." She would tell women to dress up and even asked one to send her pictures of her outfit before meeting with Kavanaugh. Guy is a fucking creep. Robert's must be having an aneurism concerning the damage this is going to do to the courts reputation. He is the most disliked SCOTUS nominee ever and that will only get worse if he is voted in without a full investigation. Source: https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1042791812627345408
Surprise! Another defender of family values and fervent opponent to women’s right upon their own body happens to be a creep who treats them like objects 🤔
|
|
|
I am staring at a map of Spain, Morocco and Western Sahara trying to figure out where that wall would go and how it would be better than the ocean.
|
|
|
The Great Sea Wall will protect us from the Kaiju, I mean migrants.
|
On September 21 2018 01:48 Plansix wrote:
I am staring at a map of Spain, Morocco and Western Sahara trying to figure out where that wall would go and how it would be better than the ocean. In case you don't know. Spain actually has 2 enclaves on Africa (Ceuta and Mellilla) where immigrants try to storm to border fences to get into Spain.
They don't have to cross the Mediterranean to get to Spain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
