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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 595

Forum Index > General Forum
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21667 Posts
August 07 2018 12:29 GMT
#11881
On August 07 2018 21:04 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 18:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Again I have to imagine sooner or later state and then the federal government is going to tell homeowners and companies that if you build in a certain area during natural disasters you will not be saved or able to recoup your losses as a result.

Plumes of smoke towered over flame-engulfed mountains in northern California on Monday as firefighters grappled with the largest wildfire in state history.

At a community hall in a small farming community 121 miles north-east of San Francisco, Renato Lira, an American Red Cross disaster services worker, looked through photos on his phone of the fire he had just driven through to set up an evacuation center. As he flicked, his screen turned red.

“It’s not stopping,” Lira said of the blaze. “People thought this year was going to be a break.”

At 443.4 square miles and growing, the blaze is already larger than New York and approaching the size of Los Angeles. The fire surpassed this size of the Thomas Fire, which broke out in 2017.

As of Monday afternoon, the Mendocino Complex fire had destroyed a total of 87 residences and 82 other structures. News agencies have reported seven deaths so far in blazes across California.

The images on Lira’s phone are a testament to the forbidding atmosphere in a region that has seen repeated blazes over the past four years, threatening the local economy and leading residents to question fire prevention strategies.

Blazes throughout the state have disrupted summer routines, with much of Yosemite national park closed due to fire activity. Air quality around the park is poor amid thick smoke and falling ash.

About 14,000 firefighters, including inmate volunteers, are battling 18 major blazes burning thousands of square miles. Firefighting costs have more than tripled from $242 million in the 2013 fiscal year to $773 million in the 2018 fiscal year that ended on 30 June, according to Cal Fire.

The fire conditions have drawn unusual commentary from Donald Trump, who tweeted that the blazes had been caused by policies that require the state’s water managers to divert water from reservoirs into rivers and streams. Among other things, the policies are meant to protect struggling fish species and prevent salinity in waterways.

“Governor Jerry Brown must allow the Free Flow of the vast amounts of water coming from the North and foolishly being diverted into the Pacific Ocean,” Trump tweeted on Monday.

Though Trump’s logic is sure to be questioned by hydrologists, the water diversion policies have long been a target of conservative farmers in the region, who argue that water should be stored for their use rather than flowing out to sea.

Tricia Austin, a spokesperson for CalFire, the state firefighting agency, said the fire was eating through the region’s diverse topography, where remote homes and small towns are interspersed through an arid region of pines, oak woodlands and parched grass pastures.

“All the fuels are receptive and the fire is being pushed erratically,” Austin said. “They’re dry and it’s hot and we’ve got low humidities.”

At the evacuation center in Colusa, the Red Cross worker Dene Shaver said the repeated cycles of fire, home destruction and evacuation had begun to take a psychological toll on residents and caused them to question the future of living in this region, which has been a haven for retirees and others priced out of the Bay Area.

“The California people are sort of over it,” Shaver said. “They want to know why this keeps happening.”

The frequent fires through this region, which have seen less national media attention than those that have burned-through communities such as Redding and Santa Rosa, have hampered the local economy, with businesses struggling to stay staffed while employees endure repeated evacuations.

“It’s extremely challenging financially,” said Melissa Fulton, CEO of the Lake County Chamber of Commerce. “Our county is suffering quite a bit because of the revenue in tourism and property tax.”

A CalFire spokesperson, Marco De Anza, said the fire highlighted the need for a more comprehensive fire strategy, which could help communities in northern California stay safe in a time of prolonged drought and hotter days.


Source


Yeah this is a problem. When I lived in California i was blown away by all the building in fire prone areas. Combined with the lack of controlled burns and global warming, this problem isn't going away. At some point you got to change something, right?

A similarly stupid thing im seeing is the huge influx of people to Tucson and Phoenix. WE DONT HAVE ENOUGH WATER. Stop building new houses for fucks sake. NPR said Phoenix has the highest water usage for golf in the country. What a joke.
$$$, simple as that.
Cities can stop allowing new houses to be built is they can't be sustained from a lack water or not allow them to be building near wildfire danger area's.

But then construction companies will have a seizure because it kills their work and causes mass layoffs.
And housing prices will spike hard as the existing houses now become premium space so a lot of people will be forced to move out of their house with no where else to go in the region because rents spiked
Which will hurt businesses because now their employees can't afford to live in range anymore. So they need to increase wages to offset the property prices ect ect.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
August 07 2018 12:37 GMT
#11882
The water problem isn't going away. When (not if) the crisis comes, the exodus from the state will be historic. Ofc the politicians dont care. They love being one of the fastest growing states. "Look at all that room! Keep building!"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 12:38:37
August 07 2018 12:38 GMT
#11883
On August 07 2018 18:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Again I have to imagine sooner or later state and then the federal government is going to tell homeowners and companies that if you build in a certain area during natural disasters you will not be saved or able to recoup your losses as a result.

Show nested quote +
Plumes of smoke towered over flame-engulfed mountains in northern California on Monday as firefighters grappled with the largest wildfire in state history.

At a community hall in a small farming community 121 miles north-east of San Francisco, Renato Lira, an American Red Cross disaster services worker, looked through photos on his phone of the fire he had just driven through to set up an evacuation center. As he flicked, his screen turned red.

“It’s not stopping,” Lira said of the blaze. “People thought this year was going to be a break.”

At 443.4 square miles and growing, the blaze is already larger than New York and approaching the size of Los Angeles. The fire surpassed this size of the Thomas Fire, which broke out in 2017.

As of Monday afternoon, the Mendocino Complex fire had destroyed a total of 87 residences and 82 other structures. News agencies have reported seven deaths so far in blazes across California.

The images on Lira’s phone are a testament to the forbidding atmosphere in a region that has seen repeated blazes over the past four years, threatening the local economy and leading residents to question fire prevention strategies.

Blazes throughout the state have disrupted summer routines, with much of Yosemite national park closed due to fire activity. Air quality around the park is poor amid thick smoke and falling ash.

About 14,000 firefighters, including inmate volunteers, are battling 18 major blazes burning thousands of square miles. Firefighting costs have more than tripled from $242 million in the 2013 fiscal year to $773 million in the 2018 fiscal year that ended on 30 June, according to Cal Fire.

The fire conditions have drawn unusual commentary from Donald Trump, who tweeted that the blazes had been caused by policies that require the state’s water managers to divert water from reservoirs into rivers and streams. Among other things, the policies are meant to protect struggling fish species and prevent salinity in waterways.

“Governor Jerry Brown must allow the Free Flow of the vast amounts of water coming from the North and foolishly being diverted into the Pacific Ocean,” Trump tweeted on Monday.

Though Trump’s logic is sure to be questioned by hydrologists, the water diversion policies have long been a target of conservative farmers in the region, who argue that water should be stored for their use rather than flowing out to sea.

Tricia Austin, a spokesperson for CalFire, the state firefighting agency, said the fire was eating through the region’s diverse topography, where remote homes and small towns are interspersed through an arid region of pines, oak woodlands and parched grass pastures.

“All the fuels are receptive and the fire is being pushed erratically,” Austin said. “They’re dry and it’s hot and we’ve got low humidities.”

At the evacuation center in Colusa, the Red Cross worker Dene Shaver said the repeated cycles of fire, home destruction and evacuation had begun to take a psychological toll on residents and caused them to question the future of living in this region, which has been a haven for retirees and others priced out of the Bay Area.

“The California people are sort of over it,” Shaver said. “They want to know why this keeps happening.”

The frequent fires through this region, which have seen less national media attention than those that have burned-through communities such as Redding and Santa Rosa, have hampered the local economy, with businesses struggling to stay staffed while employees endure repeated evacuations.

“It’s extremely challenging financially,” said Melissa Fulton, CEO of the Lake County Chamber of Commerce. “Our county is suffering quite a bit because of the revenue in tourism and property tax.”

A CalFire spokesperson, Marco De Anza, said the fire highlighted the need for a more comprehensive fire strategy, which could help communities in northern California stay safe in a time of prolonged drought and hotter days.


Source

seems unlikely it'll happen that soon given the history of the national flood insurance program; which shows how slow the government will be to stop people from building in areas that shouldn't be built in; and when they eventually tried to reform the program somewhat, they caved and reverted bunches of the reform due to pressure from the people affected.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 12:57:18
August 07 2018 12:55 GMT
#11884
To be fair, looking at californian fire hazard maps, http://frap.fire.ca.gov/webdata/maps/statewide/fhszl06_1_map.jpg anywhere anyone can build a new house on new land, ie to continue the massive urban sprawl that seem to be californian cities, would be building into the forests that are the biggest fire hazard zones. In fact it appears that to be next to urban land is a fire hazard all and of itself. The alternative land would be building it in areas already taken up by farming, which has already taken up about 15% of available land, (and you can be sure that the water hungry agri companies aren't selling that land) or in the middle of a desert, and either case would require hours of commute.
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9647 Posts
August 07 2018 13:04 GMT
#11885
On August 07 2018 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 17:44 Nebuchad wrote:
My guess is this has more to do with who is at the receiving end and who isn't.


It surely does, but the situations aren't comparable.


Why do you think MLK jr. began to believe it was moderates and not KKK members who were the greatest obstacle for Black people?


I agree with that. Winning over the moderates is very important when it comes to the cause of equality. Winning over the far right is a pipe dream not even worth attempting. This is my exact reasoning.
RIP Meatloaf <3
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
August 07 2018 13:33 GMT
#11886
On August 07 2018 22:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 17:44 Nebuchad wrote:
My guess is this has more to do with who is at the receiving end and who isn't.


It surely does, but the situations aren't comparable.


Why do you think MLK jr. began to believe it was moderates and not KKK members who were the greatest obstacle for Black people?


I agree with that. Winning over the moderates is very important when it comes to the cause of equality. Winning over the far right is a pipe dream not even worth attempting. This is my exact reasoning.


I'm afraid you don't understand what he was talking about.

He was making quite the opposite point you are. Your argument is the very one he's criticizing. Your failure to understand his point is why you can't answer the question.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
August 07 2018 14:06 GMT
#11887
In other news, the good old EPA has done it again.
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/federal-register-notice-proposed-snur-asbestos
The asbestos SNUR is on the federal register until August 10th.
Note: this doesn't explicitly lift bans on asbestos, but it allows asbestos to be used again and then evaluated using new methods that apparently do not take other legacy uses of asbestos into account.
Additionally, the policy before this was to automatically ban new uses of asbestos, which seems much safer than the new policy.
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 07 2018 14:12 GMT
#11888
Bring back lead paint! Make children have stunted growth again!
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9647 Posts
August 07 2018 14:17 GMT
#11889
On August 07 2018 22:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 22:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 17:44 Nebuchad wrote:
My guess is this has more to do with who is at the receiving end and who isn't.


It surely does, but the situations aren't comparable.


Why do you think MLK jr. began to believe it was moderates and not KKK members who were the greatest obstacle for Black people?


I agree with that. Winning over the moderates is very important when it comes to the cause of equality. Winning over the far right is a pipe dream not even worth attempting. This is my exact reasoning.


I'm afraid you don't understand what he was talking about.

He was making quite the opposite point you are. Your argument is the very one he's criticizing. Your failure to understand his point is why you can't answer the question.


OK.
I'm glad he had all those solutions, otherwise the USA would still be racist.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 14:23:19
August 07 2018 14:18 GMT
#11890
Russia is the global leader in exporting asbestos. Coincidence or just another crazy random connection? Maybe we'll have a nostalgia trip mesothelioma commercial in some years as well.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11822 Posts
August 07 2018 14:22 GMT
#11891
On August 07 2018 23:12 Plansix wrote:
Bring back lead paint! Make children have stunted growth again!


Add extra lead to fuel to make it cheaper and better!
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 14:35:45
August 07 2018 14:35 GMT
#11892
On August 07 2018 23:18 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Russia is the global leader in exporting asbestos. Coincidence or just another crazy random connection? Maybe we'll have a nostalgia trip mesothelioma commercial in some years as well.


Iirc, Trump has been a big asbestos defender for decades. It's just another one of the weird quirks about him. Kinda like his anti vaccine shit.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
August 07 2018 14:37 GMT
#11893
On August 07 2018 23:17 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 22:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 07 2018 22:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 17:44 Nebuchad wrote:
My guess is this has more to do with who is at the receiving end and who isn't.


It surely does, but the situations aren't comparable.


Why do you think MLK jr. began to believe it was moderates and not KKK members who were the greatest obstacle for Black people?


I agree with that. Winning over the moderates is very important when it comes to the cause of equality. Winning over the far right is a pipe dream not even worth attempting. This is my exact reasoning.


I'm afraid you don't understand what he was talking about.

He was making quite the opposite point you are. Your argument is the very one he's criticizing. Your failure to understand his point is why you can't answer the question.


OK.
I'm glad he had all those solutions, otherwise the USA would still be racist.


I can tell you're being flippant, but I think you're proving my point.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 07 2018 14:41 GMT
#11894
On August 07 2018 23:35 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 23:18 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Russia is the global leader in exporting asbestos. Coincidence or just another crazy random connection? Maybe we'll have a nostalgia trip mesothelioma commercial in some years as well.


Iirc, Trump has been a big asbestos defender for decades. It's just another one of the weird quirks about him. Kinda like his anti vaccine shit.

I can understand him being an asbestos defender; in that as a real estate developer dealing with old asbestos is quite an expense, so he opposes those regulations because they cost him money.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
August 07 2018 14:43 GMT
#11895
Unsurprisingly he is also a huge defender of eminent domain.
Fwmeh
Profile Joined April 2008
1286 Posts
August 07 2018 14:51 GMT
#11896
On August 07 2018 23:37 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 23:17 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 22:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 07 2018 22:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
On August 07 2018 17:44 Nebuchad wrote:
My guess is this has more to do with who is at the receiving end and who isn't.


It surely does, but the situations aren't comparable.


Why do you think MLK jr. began to believe it was moderates and not KKK members who were the greatest obstacle for Black people?


I agree with that. Winning over the moderates is very important when it comes to the cause of equality. Winning over the far right is a pipe dream not even worth attempting. This is my exact reasoning.


I'm afraid you don't understand what he was talking about.

He was making quite the opposite point you are. Your argument is the very one he's criticizing. Your failure to understand his point is why you can't answer the question.


OK.
I'm glad he had all those solutions, otherwise the USA would still be racist.


I can tell you're being flippant, but I think you're proving my point.

In this context, is your point identical to MLK Jr.'s point? In other words, that the greatest obstacle to Black people (your capitalization) is moderates being flippant?

And if so, what actions should, in your opinion, be taken so that the moderates become less flippant?
A parser for things is a function from strings to lists of pairs of things and strings
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35143 Posts
August 07 2018 14:56 GMT
#11897
On August 07 2018 21:25 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 21:04 On_Slaught wrote:
On August 07 2018 18:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Again I have to imagine sooner or later state and then the federal government is going to tell homeowners and companies that if you build in a certain area during natural disasters you will not be saved or able to recoup your losses as a result.

Plumes of smoke towered over flame-engulfed mountains in northern California on Monday as firefighters grappled with the largest wildfire in state history.

At a community hall in a small farming community 121 miles north-east of San Francisco, Renato Lira, an American Red Cross disaster services worker, looked through photos on his phone of the fire he had just driven through to set up an evacuation center. As he flicked, his screen turned red.

“It’s not stopping,” Lira said of the blaze. “People thought this year was going to be a break.”

At 443.4 square miles and growing, the blaze is already larger than New York and approaching the size of Los Angeles. The fire surpassed this size of the Thomas Fire, which broke out in 2017.

As of Monday afternoon, the Mendocino Complex fire had destroyed a total of 87 residences and 82 other structures. News agencies have reported seven deaths so far in blazes across California.

The images on Lira’s phone are a testament to the forbidding atmosphere in a region that has seen repeated blazes over the past four years, threatening the local economy and leading residents to question fire prevention strategies.

Blazes throughout the state have disrupted summer routines, with much of Yosemite national park closed due to fire activity. Air quality around the park is poor amid thick smoke and falling ash.

About 14,000 firefighters, including inmate volunteers, are battling 18 major blazes burning thousands of square miles. Firefighting costs have more than tripled from $242 million in the 2013 fiscal year to $773 million in the 2018 fiscal year that ended on 30 June, according to Cal Fire.

The fire conditions have drawn unusual commentary from Donald Trump, who tweeted that the blazes had been caused by policies that require the state’s water managers to divert water from reservoirs into rivers and streams. Among other things, the policies are meant to protect struggling fish species and prevent salinity in waterways.

“Governor Jerry Brown must allow the Free Flow of the vast amounts of water coming from the North and foolishly being diverted into the Pacific Ocean,” Trump tweeted on Monday.

Though Trump’s logic is sure to be questioned by hydrologists, the water diversion policies have long been a target of conservative farmers in the region, who argue that water should be stored for their use rather than flowing out to sea.

Tricia Austin, a spokesperson for CalFire, the state firefighting agency, said the fire was eating through the region’s diverse topography, where remote homes and small towns are interspersed through an arid region of pines, oak woodlands and parched grass pastures.

“All the fuels are receptive and the fire is being pushed erratically,” Austin said. “They’re dry and it’s hot and we’ve got low humidities.”

At the evacuation center in Colusa, the Red Cross worker Dene Shaver said the repeated cycles of fire, home destruction and evacuation had begun to take a psychological toll on residents and caused them to question the future of living in this region, which has been a haven for retirees and others priced out of the Bay Area.

“The California people are sort of over it,” Shaver said. “They want to know why this keeps happening.”

The frequent fires through this region, which have seen less national media attention than those that have burned-through communities such as Redding and Santa Rosa, have hampered the local economy, with businesses struggling to stay staffed while employees endure repeated evacuations.

“It’s extremely challenging financially,” said Melissa Fulton, CEO of the Lake County Chamber of Commerce. “Our county is suffering quite a bit because of the revenue in tourism and property tax.”

A CalFire spokesperson, Marco De Anza, said the fire highlighted the need for a more comprehensive fire strategy, which could help communities in northern California stay safe in a time of prolonged drought and hotter days.


Source


Yeah this is a problem. When I lived in California i was blown away by all the building in fire prone areas. Combined with the lack of controlled burns and global warming, this problem isn't going away. At some point you got to change something, right?

A similarly stupid thing im seeing is the huge influx of people to Tucson and Phoenix. WE DONT HAVE ENOUGH WATER. Stop building new houses for fucks sake. NPR said Phoenix has the highest water usage for golf in the country. What a joke.


Maybe ask Trump to build a wall around those cities ?

Mean like a... fire wall? Russia says they don't want us to have any of those.
Ryzel
Profile Joined December 2012
United States529 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 15:05:06
August 07 2018 14:57 GMT
#11898
GH, you could just explain to Jock what MLK’s point was instead of being obtuse for the sake of...getting people riled up I guess. Although now that I put it that way, that pretty much is your MO about everything so your posting habits make a lot of sense now.

Anyway, MLKs point is that white moderates are complacent with the status quo, and that while they sympathize/pay lip-service to the plight of African-Americans, its not enough to actually help them in a meaningful way. It’s like the difference between an activist who works in a soup kitchen every weekend, and some guy who donates his old clothes/furniture to Salvation Army when there’s too much clutter. You could say both are helping the cause, but there’s a clear difference between both the intent and impact of the two people. MLKs (and now GHs) plight is to try and convert enough of the latter to the former so that a majority can be formed to create meaningful political change, but the white moderate has demonstrated strong resistance to that conversion process.

There seems to be some misunderstanding that the goal of black activism is to get those with racist far-right views to be more like white moderates. That isn’t the case. You could replace every far-right bigot with a white moderate and it wouldn’t change anything meaningful long-term for the issues the black community faces.
Hakuna Matata B*tches
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 07 2018 14:58 GMT
#11899
MLKs quote wasn’t about winning over moderates, but that moderates are guilty of upholding the status quo, aka segregation. They their prized their own stability and order over justice for oppressed black citizens. It is a call for moderates to look at the reasons why they oppose groups seeking racial justice due to their “tactics”.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 07 2018 15:00 GMT
#11900
The more I read GH, the more I think that "we" aren't his targeted audience. It seems that his intended purpose, rather like in the manner of the BLM movement isn't to raise awareness or solve problems, but to galvanise the "black" community of USA itself.
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