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On October 28 2025 01:06 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2025 01:00 GreenHorizons wrote:AI surveillance of children in the US almost got an innocent child killed. One wrong move and the cops swarming him could have done what they do all too often. Police officers swarmed a 16-year-old high school student last week after an artificial intelligence (AI) gun detection system mistakenly flagged his bag of chips as a firearm, leaving officials and students shaken.
Student Taki Allen was waiting for his ride at Kenwood High School in Essex, Maryland, last Monday when he placed an empty bag of chips in his pocket, according to WMAR-2 News. Moments later, police officers suddenly surrounded him, ordering him to the ground and handcuffing him, the local station reported.
"Police showed up, like eight cop cars, and then they all came out with guns pointed at me talking about getting on the ground. I was putting my hands up like, ‘What’s going on?’" Allen told WMAR-2.
"I guess just the way you guys were eating chips… It picked it up as a gun," a police officer told the students in the video. "AI's not the best."
"Our system operated as designed — it identified a possible threat, elevated it for human review, and relied on authorized safety personnel for final determination," the company told Fox News Digital
Allen, shaken by the incident, said he no longer feels safe going outside after football practice and that the incident should never have happened.
"I don't want - don't think I'm safe enough to go outside, especially eating a bag of chips or drinking something. I just stay inside until my ride comes," Allen added. www.foxnews.comIt's worth better understanding how something like this used to be considered a dystopian authoritarian nightmare and then US society just integrated it. Literally everything is horribly broken in that. Why do you have a surveillance system for students? Why does AI constantly monitor that system? Why is the AI so bad that it mistakes a bag of chips for a gun? Why did no human look at that video before a bunch of armed cops shout at a guy? And last but not least: Why is interacting with cops so dangerous in the US? If the cops make everyone feel less save, why have the cops at all?
You have surveillance at a school because it's a school. It's a public place. It's a gun-free zone. It's inhabited by minors who aren't full citizens and can't have guns in any case, let alone at a gun-free zone. You can have AI monitoring it constantly for the same reason you have metal detectors at the front door. You don't want guns, knives, school shootings, and violence, and you want to spot that without relying on an impossible army of CCTV-watching humans. Even when everyone else misses it or nobody involved would report on it. So you flag things and send them to human review. In this case, the superintendent claims it was canceled but the school principal didn't get the memo. In the process of flagging, you would like to be perfect. Same with the review step. Nevertheless, given the choice between false negatives and false positives, you want to be biased towards false positives. Not that you want a lot of those either, or your system is crying wolf. Regardless of how anyone "feels," everyone walked away from that interaction and unarmed teenagers are not shot often by police in the US. So police should probably still exist.
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On October 29 2025 03:30 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2025 01:06 Simberto wrote:On October 28 2025 01:00 GreenHorizons wrote:AI surveillance of children in the US almost got an innocent child killed. One wrong move and the cops swarming him could have done what they do all too often. Police officers swarmed a 16-year-old high school student last week after an artificial intelligence (AI) gun detection system mistakenly flagged his bag of chips as a firearm, leaving officials and students shaken.
Student Taki Allen was waiting for his ride at Kenwood High School in Essex, Maryland, last Monday when he placed an empty bag of chips in his pocket, according to WMAR-2 News. Moments later, police officers suddenly surrounded him, ordering him to the ground and handcuffing him, the local station reported.
"Police showed up, like eight cop cars, and then they all came out with guns pointed at me talking about getting on the ground. I was putting my hands up like, ‘What’s going on?’" Allen told WMAR-2.
"I guess just the way you guys were eating chips… It picked it up as a gun," a police officer told the students in the video. "AI's not the best."
"Our system operated as designed — it identified a possible threat, elevated it for human review, and relied on authorized safety personnel for final determination," the company told Fox News Digital
Allen, shaken by the incident, said he no longer feels safe going outside after football practice and that the incident should never have happened.
"I don't want - don't think I'm safe enough to go outside, especially eating a bag of chips or drinking something. I just stay inside until my ride comes," Allen added. www.foxnews.comIt's worth better understanding how something like this used to be considered a dystopian authoritarian nightmare and then US society just integrated it. Literally everything is horribly broken in that. Why do you have a surveillance system for students? Why does AI constantly monitor that system? Why is the AI so bad that it mistakes a bag of chips for a gun? Why did no human look at that video before a bunch of armed cops shout at a guy? And last but not least: Why is interacting with cops so dangerous in the US? If the cops make everyone feel less save, why have the cops at all? You have surveillance at a school because it's a school. It's a public place. It's a gun-free zone. It's inhabited by minors who aren't full citizens and can't have guns in any case, let alone at a gun-free zone. You can have AI monitoring it constantly for the same reason you have metal detectors at the front door. You don't want guns, knives, school shootings, and violence, and you want to spot that without relying on an impossible army of CCTV-watching humans. Even when everyone else misses it or nobody involved would report on it. So you flag things and send them to human review. In this case, the superintendent claims it was canceled but the school principal didn't get the memo. In the process of flagging, you would like to be perfect. Same with the review step. Nevertheless, given the choice between false negatives and false positives, you want to be biased towards false positives. Not that you want a lot of those either, or your system is crying wolf. Regardless of how anyone "feels," everyone walked away from that interaction and unarmed teenagers are not shot often by police in the US. So police should probably still exist. Your aware that no other nation needs metal detectors or a 'gun free zone' at school right?
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'...
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Yeah if we just ignore the fact that a child was held at gunpoint by police for eating a bag of chips, which i'm sure wasn't traumatizing at all, then yeah no harm no foul.
We used to be a country of innocent until proven guilty and now we're in borderline minority report surveillance state because our overlords rather strip away our 4th amendment rights than enact any sort of reasonable gun control like the rest of the civilized world and tell us it's "for our safety"
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On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2025 03:30 oBlade wrote:On October 28 2025 01:06 Simberto wrote:On October 28 2025 01:00 GreenHorizons wrote:AI surveillance of children in the US almost got an innocent child killed. One wrong move and the cops swarming him could have done what they do all too often. Police officers swarmed a 16-year-old high school student last week after an artificial intelligence (AI) gun detection system mistakenly flagged his bag of chips as a firearm, leaving officials and students shaken.
Student Taki Allen was waiting for his ride at Kenwood High School in Essex, Maryland, last Monday when he placed an empty bag of chips in his pocket, according to WMAR-2 News. Moments later, police officers suddenly surrounded him, ordering him to the ground and handcuffing him, the local station reported.
"Police showed up, like eight cop cars, and then they all came out with guns pointed at me talking about getting on the ground. I was putting my hands up like, ‘What’s going on?’" Allen told WMAR-2.
"I guess just the way you guys were eating chips… It picked it up as a gun," a police officer told the students in the video. "AI's not the best."
"Our system operated as designed — it identified a possible threat, elevated it for human review, and relied on authorized safety personnel for final determination," the company told Fox News Digital
Allen, shaken by the incident, said he no longer feels safe going outside after football practice and that the incident should never have happened.
"I don't want - don't think I'm safe enough to go outside, especially eating a bag of chips or drinking something. I just stay inside until my ride comes," Allen added. www.foxnews.comIt's worth better understanding how something like this used to be considered a dystopian authoritarian nightmare and then US society just integrated it. Literally everything is horribly broken in that. Why do you have a surveillance system for students? Why does AI constantly monitor that system? Why is the AI so bad that it mistakes a bag of chips for a gun? Why did no human look at that video before a bunch of armed cops shout at a guy? And last but not least: Why is interacting with cops so dangerous in the US? If the cops make everyone feel less save, why have the cops at all? You have surveillance at a school because it's a school. It's a public place. It's a gun-free zone. It's inhabited by minors who aren't full citizens and can't have guns in any case, let alone at a gun-free zone. You can have AI monitoring it constantly for the same reason you have metal detectors at the front door. You don't want guns, knives, school shootings, and violence, and you want to spot that without relying on an impossible army of CCTV-watching humans. Even when everyone else misses it or nobody involved would report on it. So you flag things and send them to human review. In this case, the superintendent claims it was canceled but the school principal didn't get the memo. In the process of flagging, you would like to be perfect. Same with the review step. Nevertheless, given the choice between false negatives and false positives, you want to be biased towards false positives. Not that you want a lot of those either, or your system is crying wolf. Regardless of how anyone "feels," everyone walked away from that interaction and unarmed teenagers are not shot often by police in the US. So police should probably still exist. Your aware that no other nation needs metal detectors or a 'gun free zone' at school right?
No, my not aware. UK and India have both been adding them for knife issues.
And where is this going? School violence is a problem. That's why the metal detectors are good. Being in a situation where you need metal detectors is not good, but that's not solved by not having them.
On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'...
In a country of 350 million people, almost everything happens sometimes. It's pure numbers. There is no guarantee of anything. Similar to how you assumed among 200 countries the US is the only one that ever thought to put a metal detector in front of a school. The wording doesn't matter, the details matter. This is why I didn't waste time saying "hardly any ever at all" and just said not "often." Because that word game is always there if you want to play it. "Oh I love how it required the addition of hardly ever at all, because that means it happens sometimes." Yeah. Everything happens sometimes. That's level 1. Tell us how many such shooting incidents you think happen, say, per year, and then find the real objective number.
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United States43532 Posts
On October 29 2025 03:45 decafchicken wrote:
Yeah if we just ignore the fact that a child was held at gunpoint by police for eating a bag of chips, which i'm sure wasn't traumatizing at all, then yeah no harm no foul.
We used to be a country of innocent until proven guilty and now we're in borderline minority report surveillance state because our overlords rather strip away our 4th amendment rights than enact any sort of reasonable gun control like the rest of the civilized world and tell us it's "for our safety"
The gun nuts are constitutionally correct. If anything, the children should also be able to own guns.
It's just not a very good constitution. It should be changed. The authors of it thought it should be changed. They themselves made changes and they created a process for changing it in the hope that others would change it.
But as written gun control is unconstitutional.
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I work at a school. It has no surveillance. Obviously weapons are not allowed (because it is a school), but there are no metal detectors or guards controlling this.
Because it is a fucking school. It is a place of learning. Students should be able to be relaxed there and ideally feel at home. It is not a high security prison.
And it is just not a problem. There are no major problems with students bringing weapons into the school, it simply doesn't happen. Anything people from the US say about schools sounds utterly alien to me.
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On October 29 2025 03:10 Razyda wrote:
Fuentes is doing rounds recently, Owens, PBD, Smith, Carlson and seems like he will be coming to Tim guy.
Nazi goes around big Republican talk shows? Fork found in kitchen.
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On October 29 2025 03:57 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'... In a country of 350 million people, almost everything happens sometimes. It's pure numbers. There is no guarantee of anything. Similar to how you assumed among 200 countries the US is the only one that ever thought to put a metal detector in front of a school. The wording doesn't matter, the details matter. This is why I didn't waste time saying "hardly any ever at all" and just said not "often." Because that word game is always there if you want to play it. "Oh I love how it required the addition of hardly ever at all, because that means it happens sometimes." Yeah. Everything happens sometimes. That's level 1. Tell us how many such shooting incidents you think happen, say, per year, and then find the real objective number.
This is a bad argument. The number of gun-related incidents, police shootings, etc. is not proportional to a country's population. Other countries with one-tenth our population don't have one-tenth as many incidents as us; they have far fewer. The United States is an extreme outlier.
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It’s not actually an argument, it’s just someone admitting that they really don’t care about shootings.
Conservatives won the gun control debate when no one introduced any meaningful legislation post Sandy Hook. Rather than attempt some sort of solution, whether that be stricter gun control laws or a nation wide mental health program, conservative got exactly the apathy and nihilism they wanted.
How many public mass shootings has it been this year? JD Vance is right when he says shootings are a fact of life and Americans just need to deal with it because that’s exactly how they’re handling them.
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On October 29 2025 06:22 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
It’s not actually an argument, it’s just someone admitting that they really don’t care about shootings.
Conservatives won the gun control debate when no one introduced any meaningful legislation post Sandy Hook. Rather than attempt some sort of solution, whether that be stricter gun control laws or a nation wide mental health program, conservative got exactly the apathy and nihilism they wanted.
How many public mass shootings has it been this year? JD Vance is right when he says shootings are a fact of life and Americans just need to deal with it because that’s exactly how they’re handling them.
Most estimates seem to be in the mid-300s to low-400s range. More than one mass shooting per day, on average.
"This is a list of mass shootings that took place in the United States in 2025. Mass shootings are incidents in which several people are injured or killed due to firearm-related violence; specifically for the purposes of this article, this consists of a total of four or more victims. A total of 331 people have been killed and 1,499 people have been wounded in 341 shootings, as of September 30, 2025." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2025
"419 U.S. mass shootings in 2025
6951 mass shootings since 1/1/2013
2 days since last mass shooting"
https://massshootingtracker.site/
"America has already seen more than 300 mass shootings in 2025, data shows ... The U.S. has seen 340 mass shootings in 2025 so far, according to the Gun Violence Archive." https://www.livenowfox.com/news/us-mass-shootings-2025-gun-violence
"U.S. approaching 340 mass shootings this year after deadly weekend" https://www.axios.com/2025/10/13/us-mass-shooting-2025
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On October 29 2025 06:22 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
It’s not actually an argument, it’s just someone admitting that they really don’t care about shootings.
Conservatives won the gun control debate when no one introduced any meaningful legislation post Sandy Hook. Rather than attempt some sort of solution, whether that be stricter gun control laws or a nation wide mental health program, conservative got exactly the apathy and nihilism they wanted.
How many public mass shootings has it been this year? JD Vance is right when he says shootings are a fact of life and Americans just need to deal with it because that’s exactly how they’re handling them.
Just for comparison: The last school shooting in Germany was in 2009. (If you count alarm pistols, 2013. If you count an ex student shooting a secretary with a crossbow, 2022)
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In before: "These shootings are mainly gang related violence"...
It somehow never occures to them, that even Gangs seem to behave "better" in most other countries. The simple fact is, a life is just less worth in the US than nearly everywhere else with the exception of some middle and south-american failed states.
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Income disparity promotes (property) crimes... lucrative zones for crime get contested by other poor people.
Americans should just understand that trying to make people productive - or else feed them enough so the become largely docile is cheaper than policing. And you create more freedom for everyone. And there is still freedeom to move away from low-income areas, send your kids to private schools, and "optimize" taxes so you at large to pay for welfare.
Or you can have your Mercedes-Benz's wheels stolen every night.
Trump axes the comission of fine arts, established in 1910 by congress.
“On behalf of President Donald J. Trump, I am writing to inform you that your position as a member of the Commission on Fine Arts is terminated, effective immediately,” reads the email, which was reviewed by CNN.
The six members were appointed by former President Joe Biden to serve four-year terms. The commission was established by Congress in 1910 “to advise the federal government on matters pertaining to the arts and national symbols, and to guide the architectural development of Washington, D.C.,” according to its website.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/10/28/politics/trump-fine-arts-commission-firings
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Now that Trump and RFK Jr. have fabricated the claim that Tylenol causes autism, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has sued Tylenol:
"Paxton is suing Johnson & Johnson, which previously sold the drug, the only pain reliever recommended for pregnant women, and Kenvue, which now manufacturers it. In a statement, he said they "betrayed America by profiting off of pain and pushing pills regardless of the risks." ... The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has said acetaminophen - the main ingredient in Tylenol - is one of the few options for pregnant women to treat pain and fever, which can pose serious health risks if left untreated. "In more than two decades of research on the use of acetaminophen in pregnancy, not a single reputable study has successfully concluded that the use of acetaminophen in any trimester of pregnancy causes neurodevelopmental disorders in children," the group said." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce9d3n1r08do
Nothing like the "protect the unborn" party jeopardizing the health of pregnant women and fetuses... yet again...
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On October 29 2025 05:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2025 03:57 oBlade wrote:On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'... In a country of 350 million people, almost everything happens sometimes. It's pure numbers. There is no guarantee of anything. Similar to how you assumed among 200 countries the US is the only one that ever thought to put a metal detector in front of a school. The wording doesn't matter, the details matter. This is why I didn't waste time saying "hardly any ever at all" and just said not "often." Because that word game is always there if you want to play it. "Oh I love how it required the addition of hardly ever at all, because that means it happens sometimes." Yeah. Everything happens sometimes. That's level 1. Tell us how many such shooting incidents you think happen, say, per year, and then find the real objective number. This is a bad argument. The number of gun-related incidents, police shootings, etc. is not proportional to a country's population. Other countries with one-tenth our population don't have one-tenth as many incidents as us; they have far fewer. The United States is an extreme outlier.
When people have guns, they kill each other with guns. When they don't have guns, they don't not kill each other. That's why the US doesn't have half the world's killings despite having half the world's guns, it's basically average
On October 29 2025 06:22 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
It’s not actually an argument, it’s just someone admitting that they really don’t care about shootings.
Conservatives won the gun control debate when no one introduced any meaningful legislation post Sandy Hook. Rather than attempt some sort of solution, whether that be stricter gun control laws or a nation wide mental health program, conservative got exactly the apathy and nihilism they wanted.
The argument is that even if one wanted to ban the sale of any gun at all and vacuum up 1 billion guns tomorrow, one can't use the tragic killing (or in the AI case, total lack of killing) of an unarmed, non-attacking teenager to throw out the police, because one would need the police to execute the 4th-amendment trampling task of gun vacuuming to begin with.
Counter-intuitively for some, the more danger there is, the more important second amendment rights become.
There's mental health and there's cultural and societal and family health. US is already maxxing out psychiatric pharmaceuticals. It seems not everything is amenable to going to the government with a bunch of money and asking them to build a miracle button and push it.
Trump's the only national politician I've heard seriously push for reopening the asylums that were closed decades ago. They are why cities have homeless and addicts on the streets, and on public transportation ruining it for everyone else, and otherwise incapable-of-living-independently people get bounced around by the most expensive and most critical public services instead of society simply admitting they should be institutionalized. And why obvious lunatics sometimes shoot up public/private places.
On October 29 2025 16:45 Velr wrote:
In before: "These shootings are mainly gang related violence"...
It somehow never occures to them, that even Gangs seem to behave "better" in most other countries. The simple fact is, a life is just less word in the US than nearly everywhere else with the exception of some middle and south-american failed states.
You've correctly identified the majority of "mass shootings" as so categorized. It's cowardly gangs shooting at each other, each side realizing the other also brought guns, then mutually retreating, usually while several people get wounded and maybe one dies. Good start. What's the next steps? Felons already can't buy guns. We can consider them gun-controlled. So do we create a social program to teach gangs how to be better behaved, or wipe the gangs from the face of the Earth, or some other option?
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On October 29 2025 18:22 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2025 05:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 29 2025 03:57 oBlade wrote:On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'... In a country of 350 million people, almost everything happens sometimes. It's pure numbers. There is no guarantee of anything. Similar to how you assumed among 200 countries the US is the only one that ever thought to put a metal detector in front of a school. The wording doesn't matter, the details matter. This is why I didn't waste time saying "hardly any ever at all" and just said not "often." Because that word game is always there if you want to play it. "Oh I love how it required the addition of hardly ever at all, because that means it happens sometimes." Yeah. Everything happens sometimes. That's level 1. Tell us how many such shooting incidents you think happen, say, per year, and then find the real objective number. This is a bad argument. The number of gun-related incidents, police shootings, etc. is not proportional to a country's population. Other countries with one-tenth our population don't have one-tenth as many incidents as us; they have far fewer. The United States is an extreme outlier. When people have guns, they kill each other with guns.
If only there were a way to address this problem of people having guns >.>
When they don't have guns, they don't not kill each other.
To the same degree? You're absolutely wrong. Countries without guns don't generally have the same killing rates as countries with guns. Guns are super effective at killing, and the data shows it. If we magically removed all the guns from the United States, our homicide rate (and our suicide rate) would drastically decrease.
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Mental asylums aren’t going to solve gun violence in America unless the argument is to throw anyone with an inkling of anti-social behaviour into them. My impression of most mass shooters is that they do so spontaneously or are people who just decide to go postal for whatever reason. You’re not catching these people unless the government intrudes the privacy of every citizen and is super heavy handed with enforcement.
I guess it could work since we’re already half there with the government handing Microsoft and Palantir limitless bags of money to develop a AI powered surveillance state. But I have to ask why would anyone want to live in a country that requires such heavy handed governance just to limit anti-social behaviour.
Like there’s a lot of evidence that the solution to bring down knife violence in the UK and Ireland is to provide enough community services that stop social and economic nihilism. Doesn’t even have to be expensive, just anything that provides a sense of community and social cohesion instead of rampant individualism.
If the solution is to proactively throw people in the slammer, you’re really just China but with American characteristics. Which is what Trump and his coterie of high value supporters seem to want.
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The US pairs social darwinism with availability of firearms. The solution is an automized surveillance state that out-dystopians any and all nazi or soviet domestic intelligence fever dreams.
A machine that can microtarget individuals with propaganda on devices that 99% of citizens are happily paying for.. controlled by billionaires with no transparency or oversight.. also being enabled to use violence and police authority... not stopping there also straight up military intervention.
Job creation and social mobility is hitting brick walls as unregulated AI companies hoping to even shoot down education as way to bridge the moat to wealth.
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On October 29 2025 19:21 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
Mental asylums aren’t going to solve gun violence in America unless the argument is to throw anyone with an inkling of anti-social behaviour into them. My impression of most mass shooters is that they do so spontaneously or are people who just decide to go postal for whatever reason. You’re not catching these people unless the government intrudes the privacy of every citizen and is super heavy handed with enforcement.
Most mass shooters, and shootings, are not the stereotype you're thinking of now. (Your idea is referring to what's the most visible, and most reported on, and arguably the worst because of the damage done by a single person, but also arguably not the worst on the grounds of all killing is equally bad. But either way.) Also, most shootings, and shooters, in general, are not "mass." The reason to institutionalize people is if they can't function in society independently without constant felony recidivism, and they can't be imprisoned because that's cruel or because they're incompetent to stand trial, and they have no guardian or custodian other than the state, they need to be sequestered in some alternative way by the state, which represents all of us (who are Americans). It's not specifically about murder prevention. Like even if someone is only punching a random person in the head and torching a car every day, they need ejected whether or not their likelihood of killing someone meets some threshold. They've already removed themselves from society, we just have to make it official with physical relocation.
And nothing is going to "solve" violence in America unless you first come out with an honest standard of what a problem and solution are. If even one bad thing happening means it's not solved, then that means we should discard a way of improving it, because it only improved it and didn't solve it, this was pointless. Why would "legislation" "solve" it? There are certain buttons we can press, but in our wildest dreams none of them is 100%. Basically, it doesn't make sense to, a short time ago, criticize people for not introducing "legislation" after Sandy Hook - because that wouldn't "solve" the problem either if our definition of "solve" were something that will physically and statistically never happen. So what legislation? What more can the government do for mental health? Is mental health just the "community services" or supposed to be something else?
On October 29 2025 18:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2025 18:22 oBlade wrote:On October 29 2025 05:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 29 2025 03:57 oBlade wrote:On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'... In a country of 350 million people, almost everything happens sometimes. It's pure numbers. There is no guarantee of anything. Similar to how you assumed among 200 countries the US is the only one that ever thought to put a metal detector in front of a school. The wording doesn't matter, the details matter. This is why I didn't waste time saying "hardly any ever at all" and just said not "often." Because that word game is always there if you want to play it. "Oh I love how it required the addition of hardly ever at all, because that means it happens sometimes." Yeah. Everything happens sometimes. That's level 1. Tell us how many such shooting incidents you think happen, say, per year, and then find the real objective number. This is a bad argument. The number of gun-related incidents, police shootings, etc. is not proportional to a country's population. Other countries with one-tenth our population don't have one-tenth as many incidents as us; they have far fewer. The United States is an extreme outlier. When people have guns, they kill each other with guns. If only there were a way to address this problem of people having guns >.> To the same degree? You're absolutely wrong. Countries without guns don't generally have the same killing rates as countries with guns. Guns are super effective at killing, and the data shows it. If we magically removed all the guns from the United States, our homicide rate (and our suicide rate) would drastically decrease.
"Generally" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Mexico, Brazil, and South Africa have strict gun control. They are not having a good time. If you have a serious crime problem, the fewer guns there are, the more damage criminals do because they're the ones not playing by the rules.
If magic were on the table, using it to make people never want to kill each other would be the most comprehensive policy.
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On October 29 2025 23:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2025 18:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 29 2025 18:22 oBlade wrote:On October 29 2025 05:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 29 2025 03:57 oBlade wrote:On October 29 2025 03:34 Gorsameth wrote:
I also love that 'police doesn't shoot unarmed teenagers' required the addition of 'often'... In a country of 350 million people, almost everything happens sometimes. It's pure numbers. There is no guarantee of anything. Similar to how you assumed among 200 countries the US is the only one that ever thought to put a metal detector in front of a school. The wording doesn't matter, the details matter. This is why I didn't waste time saying "hardly any ever at all" and just said not "often." Because that word game is always there if you want to play it. "Oh I love how it required the addition of hardly ever at all, because that means it happens sometimes." Yeah. Everything happens sometimes. That's level 1. Tell us how many such shooting incidents you think happen, say, per year, and then find the real objective number. This is a bad argument. The number of gun-related incidents, police shootings, etc. is not proportional to a country's population. Other countries with one-tenth our population don't have one-tenth as many incidents as us; they have far fewer. The United States is an extreme outlier. When people have guns, they kill each other with guns. If only there were a way to address this problem of people having guns >.> When they don't have guns, they don't not kill each other. To the same degree? You're absolutely wrong. Countries without guns don't generally have the same killing rates as countries with guns. Guns are super effective at killing, and the data shows it. If we magically removed all the guns from the United States, our homicide rate (and our suicide rate) would drastically decrease. "Generally" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Mexico, Brazil, and South Africa have strict gun control. They are not having a good time. If you have a serious crime problem, the fewer guns there are, the more damage criminals do because they're the ones not playing by the rules. If magic were on the table, using it to make people never want to kill each other would be the most comprehensive policy.
Maybe compare us to all of the OECD instead of cherry-picking the only one that might be a counterexample (Mexico): https://www.oecd.org/en/about/members-partners.html
Hint: You're wrong.
Also, suggesting we use magic instead of reducing guns / increasing gun control is a clear concession on your part.
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EPT
