EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 522
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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funnybananaman
United States830 Posts
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
Want some stats? Go look up how much his policies disproportionally affected PoC. Party sycophants are too busy calling the left uninformed while continuing to brag about Clinton's budget surplus and acting patronizing. Truly hilarious. An economy lesson on this topic for those interested in learning: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On July 23 2018 11:49 screamingpalm wrote: If you guys are trying to file this under "Clinton would have been better", I remember Bubba stumping for Hillary during the primaries and STILL defending his Welfare and Prison reform bills. His goldilocks economy of private debt expansion that forced many low income and disadvantaged communities to turn to predatory pay day lending. Shall I continue? Want some stats? Go look up how much his policies disproportionally affected PoC. "I remember Bubba stumping for Hillary during the primaries and STILL defending his Welfare and Prison reform bill." This is just flat out racism, and deserves a ban. Since 2016 I've been so disgusted to find how many of the people in my country are stuck back in the 30's and 50'. Reading all the previous page, it's a joke to see a bunch of white people struggling to defend their own privilege rather than have an open enough mind to understand it. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
On July 23 2018 12:29 ShambhalaWar wrote: "I remember Bubba stumping for Hillary during the primaries and STILL defending his Welfare and Prison reform bill." This is just flat out racism, and deserves a ban. Since 2016 I've been so disgusted to find how many of the people in my country are stuck back in the 30's and 50'. Reading all the previous page, it's a joke to see a bunch of white people struggling to defend their own privilege rather than have an open enough mind to understand it. Are you serious right now? That was his nickname you dolt. AKA Bill Clinton? WTF are you on? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35142 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On July 23 2018 11:49 screamingpalm wrote: If you guys are trying to file this under "Clinton would have been better", I remember Bubba stumping for Hillary during the primaries and STILL defending his Welfare and Prison reform bills. His goldilocks economy of private debt expansion and federal government budget surplus that forced many low income and disadvantaged communities to turn to predatory pay day lending. Shall I continue? Since it's not directly apropos to the point currently under debate I wouldn't bother. Want some stats? Go look up how much his policies disproportionally affected PoC. ... An economy lesson on this topic for those interested in learning: + Show Spoiler + Not clear from the context whether these two are related. In any case, do you have something readable rather than a video? Party sycophants are too busy calling the left uninformed while continuing to brag about Clinton's budget surplus and acting patronizing. Truly hilarious. Has this got anything to do with the current conversation? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23220 Posts
On July 23 2018 12:29 ShambhalaWar wrote: "I remember Bubba stumping for Hillary during the primaries and STILL defending his Welfare and Prison reform bill." This is just flat out racism, and deserves a ban. Since 2016 I've been so disgusted to find how many of the people in my country are stuck back in the 30's and 50'. Reading all the previous page, it's a joke to see a bunch of white people struggling to defend their own privilege rather than have an open enough mind to understand it. i'm coming back to the other posts but I'm terribly curious why/how this was supposed to be racist even if it wasn't a well known (though apparently not here) nickname? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44272 Posts
On July 23 2018 12:54 Gahlo wrote: I've never heard anybody call Bill "Bubba". I've heard it used before. Regardless, I don't see how it's racist. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On July 23 2018 12:34 screamingpalm wrote: Are you serious right now? That was his nickname you dolt. AKA Bill Clinton? WTF are you on? I never heard in my life anyone call him that... it's weird because Obama stumped for Hillary, and if you were saying that about him it would be racist. So if you're right, then than just makes you kind of oblivious to the context. If that wasn't racist, fine and good... but Idk what you want people to think when you say that... Why not just say Bill? And yea, we live in a country with LOTS of racism... Problem not solved, it's just all bubbling to the surface right now. Regardless, name calling is a ban right? "That was his nickname you dolt." | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
If I see it, I just feel like I need to call it out, like I can't just be ok with someone saying something that is racist. The context was really confusing. And I don't at all appreciate being called a dolt. | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
On July 23 2018 13:00 Aquanim wrote: Not clear from the context whether these two are related. In any case, do you have something readable rather than a video? Not directly applicable to the topic of Clinton and the effects of his economic policies, but perhaps Ellis's blog has something. I'll post it if there is. On July 23 2018 13:00 Aquanim wrote: Has this got anything to do with the current conversation? Income inequality. Absolutely. But also needs to be understood in the context of sectoral balances, wage suppression and distribution of GDP. | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
How will people react that called his approach with Putin soft? Iran called a war with Iran the mother of all wars and demanded that the USA stopped the sable rattling. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23220 Posts
On July 23 2018 11:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: GH, it really does seem like you're trying to dismiss or dodge several good points in bad faith. I'm curious as to why it's so important to not agree with JimmiC's measurable evidences; it's not like a concession here would slippery slope to "...and therefore, blacks are treated perfectly equally to whites and fairly and equitably across our society, we're post-racism, etc." They aren't good points, and I was hoping people recognized them for what they were. Since it appears they didn't I suppose I'll indulge Jimmi's post. On July 23 2018 10:02 JimmiC wrote: Ok here are some, feel free to all them Fake news but please for once also back up your own claim. Today, far more African-Americans graduate from college – 38 percent – than they did 50 years ago. Here's the title of the article you pulled it from (I know why you didn't link it now) Black Americans mostly left behind by progress since Dr. King’s death Without statistics on white people this point is meaningless for the question asked. But according to the census the percentage gap between white and Black college completion has gone from ~4% less Black graduates to ~20% less Black graduates. Legally, African-Americans may live in any community they want – and from Beverly Hills to the Upper East Side, they can and do. Besides not really being something to be celebrated (as phrased) segregation is on the rise: American schools are 'more segregated than they were in the 1960s,' says Hillary Clinton Black adults experienced a more significant income increase from 1980 to 2016 – from $28,667 to $39,490 – than any other U.S. demographic group. This, in part, is why there’s now a significant black middle class. We can see that overall the gap has not significantly changed at all: ![[image loading]](http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/06/ST_2016.06.27_race-inequality-ch1-03-2.png) In 1965, there were no blacks in the U.S. Senate, nor were there any black governors. And only six members of the House of Representatives were black. By 2015, there was greater representation in some areas (44 House members were black) but little change in others (there were two black senators and one black governor). The share of blacks who have served in a presidential Cabinet, however, has been generally high – even above parity with the population – under administrations in the past two decades. It should be very obvious why this is a piss poor metric, and I already hinted at it, but to be more clear this would have Black people celebrating Justice Thomas, Herman Cain, Ben Carson, Allen West and so on. That's obviously stupid. So no I won't take black people helping white people oppress black people as "a measurable improvement". Not to mention the whole lynching not being "that bad" in the 60's the Klan losing much of its power (others have risen of course but not to the overt power that the Klan once had) Go ahead and pull up a statistic so we can understand what it is your specifically saying is the measurable improvement. There's a lot of reasons people don't like discussing things with me, but having their argument challenged instead of swallowed whole without support shouldn't be one of them. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44272 Posts
On July 23 2018 13:48 maze. wrote: Time for a new newscycle: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666 How will people react that called his approach with Putin soft? Iran called a war with Iran the mother of all wars and demanded that the USA stopped the sable rattling. I'm just impressed he's finally using multisyllabic words. Someone should let him know his Caps Lock button is stuck though. But to answer your question: Trump's approach to Putin has been worse than soft. Soft is admitting that there's foul play and responding in such a way that is proportionally weaker; it's a more passive acknowledgement, rather than an assertive (or even aggressive) reaction. Barring the would/ wouldn't bullshit line from Trump, he isn't even willing to acknowledge the basic facts that are well established. Rather than giving even a weak, passive, soft bunt for Team America, he's straight up batting for Team Russia. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8072 Posts
On July 23 2018 14:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I'm just impressed he's finally using multisyllabic words. Someone should let him know his Caps Lock button is stuck though. But to answer your question: Trump's approach to Putin has been worse than soft. Soft is admitting that there's foul play and responding in such a way that is proportionally weaker; it's a more passive acknowledgement, rather than an assertive (or even aggressive) reaction. Barring the would/ wouldn't bullshit line from Trump, he isn't even willing to acknowledge the basic facts that are well established. Rather than giving even a weak, passive, soft bunt for Team America, he's straight up batting for Team Russia. He keeps going back and forth between admitting that it happened but that it probably was not Russia (or sometimes even "not only Russia"), and denying it completely while simultaneously blaming Hillary and Obama. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44272 Posts
On July 23 2018 14:23 Excludos wrote: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021158915206152193 He keeps going back and forth between admitting that it happened but that it probably was not Russia (or sometimes even "not only Russia"), and denying it completely while simultaneously blaming Hillary and Obama. He's trying to muddy the waters by taking every single position (much like some of the things he did during the Republican primary) so that any supporter or potential supporter could cherry pick the statements they want to hear (or read), acknowledge those, and ignore the contradictions. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23220 Posts
On July 23 2018 10:20 JimmiC wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'll show you mine, when you show me yours. Otherwise we just go through the same old song and dance. Show me how it has not changed. Prove your assertion. Otherwise its: GH 'This is how it is" Other "No it isn't" GH "Prove it" Other "Ok here...." GH " That all right wing propaganda" OR Other "This is how it is" GH "Sure, Prove it" Other " OK here....." GH " That is all right wing propaganda" So basically anything say everyone needs to simply trust as fact, even though you won't say where you get your news or ever back it up. But any little or big thing another says you need a multi sourced essay of doctoral level to even consider it (this is a joke, you just never consider others points at all). I wanted to address this part too by pointing to a more traditional measure of success in a capitalistic society, wealth: ![[image loading]](http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2014/12/FT_14.12.11_wealthGap2.png) And for some more historical context, In South Africa, during the atrocities of apartheid, the median black family held about 7 percent of typical white South African family net worth. Today, using Wolff’s analysis, the median African American family holds a mere 1.5 percent of median white American family wealth. Brief explanation of the difference between the two different measures of wealth inequality: New York University Professor Edward Wolff, one of the foremost economists studying wealth inequality, looks at the same Federal Reserve dataset that the Pew researchers used in a recent report he published in the National Bureau of Economic Research (paywall). Wolff points out that the Fed includes consumer durables in its net-worth estimates. Wolff excludes these consumer durables from his net-worth figures because these assets — everything from automobiles and televisions to furniture and household appliances — cannot be readily converted to cash and their resale value typically far understates their consumption value. According to Wolff’s calculations, the median black family is actually only worth $1,700 when you deduct these durables. In contrast, the median white family holds $116,800 of wealth using the same accounting methods. Black household wealth, Wolff adds, actually fell during the Great Recession from $6,700 to $1,700. EDIT: May seem like I'm picking on Jimmi so to be fair, this is kinda a thing. Americans, and higher-income whites in particular, vastly overestimate progress toward economic equality between blacks and whites, the psychologists reported Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Americans believe that blacks and whites are more equal today than they truly are on measures of income, wealth, wages and health benefits. And they believe more historical progress has occurred than is the case, suggesting “a profound misperception of and unfounded optimism” regarding racial equality. “It seems that we’ve convinced ourselves – and by ‘we’ I mean Americans writ large – that racial discrimination is a thing of the past,” said Jennifer Richeson, who was another of the study’s authors, along with Julian Rucker, a doctoral student. “We’ve literally overcome it, so to speak, despite blatant evidence to the contrary.” www.nytimes.com | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On July 23 2018 13:48 maze. wrote: Time for a new newscycle: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021234525626609666 How will people react that called his approach with Putin soft? Iran called a war with Iran the mother of all wars and demanded that the USA stopped the sable rattling. Well, extrapolating from current events, I guess we'll have a photo op with Khamenei in Singapore in about six months now. 'He's a great guy and a strong leader' Then they'll agree to a deal many times worse/less impactful than the current Iran deal and it will be celebrated as a victory | ||
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