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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 52

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 28 2018 13:22 GMT
#1021
On March 28 2018 15:02 Falling wrote:
Well, he isn't. But I think it probably is a big ask. No one is forcing me to watch Jones, so he can yell away in his corner of youtube- so long as it isn't defamation or slander. I haven't been impressed with youtube's efforts to clean house, and I doubt politicians will do much better. Partially it's just sheer volume of content being generated. 300 hours of video uploaded per minute and 500 million tweets per day. What politician can wade into that mess with any degree of nuanced understanding?

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for companies that create systems so large and complex that they cannot fully understand them. It is self fulfilling. Especially when those companies receive liability protection that no other media company receives simply because they are on the internet and deal in uploaded content.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22693 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 13:24:32
March 28 2018 13:23 GMT
#1022
On March 28 2018 22:16 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 22:04 farvacola wrote:
Definitely not as good as Bernie, but still highly preferable to Trump.


Dunno. Can you just imagine how hard the current senate/house would dig their heels in under a Bernie Sanders Presidency? If they were dedicated to ruining Obama they'd have wanted to burn down the white house over an actual leftie living there.

Everything involving the Parkland kids is fucked up beyond recognition. It's fine to dislike what they're saying (Conservative values and that), but the response is to recognise that they're grieving and trying to deal with it, not make spurious assertions that they're akin to the Hitler youth and SENDING THEM DEATH THREATS.

There's no point in pointing out the right has lost its mind, everyone knows that. I'm beginning to wonder what will make the majority of Conservatives wake up and realise that its gone too far. I'm waiting to hear about an actual attempt to kill one of the Parkland kids and the right start laughing about it/applauding the upstanding Conservative for trying to defend the Constitution against these parasites. And I'm not even sure that wouldn't be their response at this point.
The response to Hillary would have been no different from Bernie or what it was for Obama.

As for the kids, its hard to fight their actual message. "We shouldn't be getting shot at in school" is really hard to argue against. So the only option is to discredit the messenger so you can then ignore the message and pretend that everything is fine.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46665 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 13:31:03
March 28 2018 13:27 GMT
#1023
On March 28 2018 22:23 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 22:16 iamthedave wrote:
On March 28 2018 22:04 farvacola wrote:
Definitely not as good as Bernie, but still highly preferable to Trump.


Dunno. Can you just imagine how hard the current senate/house would dig their heels in under a Bernie Sanders Presidency? If they were dedicated to ruining Obama they'd have wanted to burn down the white house over an actual leftie living there.

Everything involving the Parkland kids is fucked up beyond recognition. It's fine to dislike what they're saying (Conservative values and that), but the response is to recognise that they're grieving and trying to deal with it, not make spurious assertions that they're akin to the Hitler youth and SENDING THEM DEATH THREATS.

There's no point in pointing out the right has lost its mind, everyone knows that. I'm beginning to wonder what will make the majority of Conservatives wake up and realise that its gone too far. I'm waiting to hear about an actual attempt to kill one of the Parkland kids and the right start laughing about it/applauding the upstanding Conservative for trying to defend the Constitution against these parasites. And I'm not even sure that wouldn't be their response at this point.
The response to Hillary would have been no different from Bernie or what it was for Obama.

As for the kids, its hard to fight their actual message. "We shouldn't be getting shot at in school" is really hard to argue against. So the only option is to discredit the messenger so you can then ignore the message and pretend that everything is fine.


Also, it pains me to see the hypocrisy in conservative talking points regarding mental health. First it was "Students who are bullied need to man up/ safe spaces are crap/ remove funding from mental health/ stop being triggered snowflakes"; now it's "This isn't about guns, this is about stepping up to befriend all children and being nice to them and being everyone's friend and not ever being mean, because if they shoot up the school it's all your fault for not picking them in kickball." So I guess mental health and being kind and respectful to others only matters when the right to bear arms is in jeopardy.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 28 2018 13:34 GMT
#1024
So much for being a group that protects Americans and the 2nd Amendment, to what it really is a Gun Manufacturers lobbying group.

The National Rifle Association is acknowledging that it accepts donations from foreign entities, and that it moves money between its various accounts “as permitted by law.”

The gun group insists it has never received foreign money in connection with an election. But campaign finance experts say that, since money is fungible, that assurance doesn’t mean much.

Though it’s a long way from being confirmed and may never be, the NRA’s new admissions offer perhaps the most compelling evidence yet that foreign money could have allowed the group to conduct political activities boosting Trump.

The admissions came in a recent letter to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), who has sought answers about the group’s foreign funding, following reports that the FBI is probing whether a Russian banker funneled money to the NRA to benefit the Trump campaign.

“While we do receive some contributions from foreign individuals and entities, those contributions are made directly to the NRA for lawful purposes,” NRA General Counsel John Frazer wrote to Wyden. “Our review of our records has found no foreign donations in connection with a United States election, either directly or through a conduit.”

The NRA is not required to disclose how funds are transferred between its various entities. As TPM has reported, that makes it difficult to trace if the NRA legally received foreign money into its general accounts, then transferred the same amount into an account that can be used for political spending.

“Even if the NRA segregated the foreign money that it received, money is fungible,” Brendan Fischer, a campaign finance expert at the Campaign Legal Center, told TPM. “Foreign money in one account frees up money that can be used for elections in another account.”

“This is a very carefully worded letter that appears designed to give the impression that the NRA does not take foreign money for its election work, but reading between the lines, it does not actually say that,” Fischer added. “The NRA said it did not receive foreign money in connection with the U.S. election. It does not say that foreign money was not used in a U.S. election.”

Paul S. Ryan, Vice President of Policy and Litigation at good-government group Common Cause told TPM that the system described in the gun organization’s letter means that “foreign money subsidizes the NRA’s U.S. political spending.”

In his letter, Frazer told Wyden that some donations received between 2015 and 2016 came from U.S. subsidiaries of foreign companies, but none were “connected with Russia, and none of their contributions were made in connection with U.S. elections.”

Campaign finance experts said that the Federal Election Commission would probably allow this system to slide, as long as the NRA was able to demonstrate it was using proper accounting measures to try to ensure that its political expenditures did not come from foreign nationals.

But other investigative bodies might have access to additional evidence that could determine how Russia or other foreign entities wanted their money to be spent. The FBI is reportedly investigating whether Russian banker and lifetime NRA member Aleksandr Torshin channeled money to the group with the express purpose of helping Donald Trump win the 2016 presidential race.

“Presumably they have emails, correspondence, communications,” said the Campaign Legal Center’s Fischer.

A liberal advocacy group has filed a complaint with the FEC requesting an investigation into links between the NRA and Russia.

In the meantime, Wyden’s office is continuing to press the gun lobbying giant for answers.

In a follow-up letter sent Tuesday, Wyden asked Frazer for an in-depth account of how foreign donations were used over the past thee years, and whether Russian nationals were members of the NRA’s donor programs, among other questions.
One issue of interest to Wyden: how the organization makes “transfers between accounts are made as permitted by law,” as Frazer acknowledged it does.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 28 2018 13:57 GMT
#1025
On March 28 2018 22:04 farvacola wrote:
Definitely not as good as Bernie, but still highly preferable to Trump.

I disagree on the "definitely not as good as bernie" part; definitely is too strong a claim.
I see it as more of an even split, it could go either way, depending on how a number of other factors play out, they each have some good and bad points.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
March 28 2018 13:57 GMT
#1026
On March 28 2018 21:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:
As much as I hate Jones, I think what he's done is close enough to Obama/Bush/Trump with a Hitler 'stache that he can get away with it. You can't watch the video and think "oh, this kid was actually a Hitler Youth" anymore than you can see those signs and think "oh yeah, Obama really is Hitler."

It's not as bad as e.g. doctoring and sharing a photo shoot so that it looks like someone is tearing up the Constitution and then being like "oh, lighten up, it's just satire" because the image alone contains no clues to that effect.
disclaimer: I haven't watched the video due to only mobile internet. This might affect the validity of my following paragraph. If so, please tell me so I can make amendments.

I have to disagree with you here.
The stark contrast of a youth movement that is organized by the pupils themselves which is an expression of Independent thought and perspective on life, to a hierarchical Hitler youth organisation that is run by adults to preserve the "Volkskörper" to build an army to dominate the world is very much a disgrace and is to be condemned. And in my opinion not harmless at all but full of contemp for the pupils as well as utter ignorance of the Hitler youth's context.
passive quaranstream fan
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
March 28 2018 14:13 GMT
#1027
On March 28 2018 22:57 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 22:04 farvacola wrote:
Definitely not as good as Bernie, but still highly preferable to Trump.

I disagree on the "definitely not as good as bernie" part; definitely is too strong a claim.
I see it as more of an even split, it could go either way, depending on how a number of other factors play out, they each have some good and bad points.


I agree with this. Hilary would have been able to get the Democrats rallied behind her on most things without much trouble; Bernie would likely have had to fight some battles in his own party. I could see a Trump-lite scenario and a Trump-plus scenario playing out in tandem, where his WH wouldn't leak as much but he'd have obvious trouble getting the Democrats to properly support him, while Congress does every single thing in its power to prevent him doing anything.

Also, I can see Hilary making deals with said Congress better than Bernie, who I think would be more likely to plant his feet and die on the hill.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18874 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 14:27:09
March 28 2018 14:19 GMT
#1028
On March 28 2018 23:13 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 22:57 zlefin wrote:
On March 28 2018 22:04 farvacola wrote:
Definitely not as good as Bernie, but still highly preferable to Trump.

I disagree on the "definitely not as good as bernie" part; definitely is too strong a claim.
I see it as more of an even split, it could go either way, depending on how a number of other factors play out, they each have some good and bad points.


I agree with this. Hilary would have been able to get the Democrats rallied behind her on most things without much trouble; Bernie would likely have had to fight some battles in his own party. I could see a Trump-lite scenario and a Trump-plus scenario playing out in tandem, where his WH wouldn't leak as much but he'd have obvious trouble getting the Democrats to properly support him, while Congress does every single thing in its power to prevent him doing anything.

Also, I can see Hilary making deals with said Congress better than Bernie, who I think would be more likely to plant his feet and die on the hill.

Given that these kinds of predictions rely on highly suspect prognostication, I'll add that this take on Sanders significantly understates how much a capable executive can accomplish in terms of appointments and staffing, an area where Sanders has shown himself highly capable in terms of how often he has managed to present priorities that overlap with mainstream Democratic ideals while a senator.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 28 2018 14:19 GMT
#1029
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46665 Posts
March 28 2018 14:25 GMT
#1030
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18874 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 14:35:20
March 28 2018 14:35 GMT
#1031
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 14:38:22
March 28 2018 14:36 GMT
#1032
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 15:09:11
March 28 2018 15:08 GMT
#1033
On March 28 2018 23:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.


What do you mean by 'outmatched'?

And surely RBG is going soon? She's ridiculously old. Hard to believe she'll make it through Trump's whole 8 years. Just hope the Democrats control enough of congress to refuse interviews when he tries to pick one.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 28 2018 15:29 GMT
#1034
On March 29 2018 00:08 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 23:36 Plansix wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.


What do you mean by 'outmatched'?

And surely RBG is going soon? She's ridiculously old. Hard to believe she'll make it through Trump's whole 8 years. Just hope the Democrats control enough of congress to refuse interviews when he tries to pick one.

The sitting justices are smarter and more capable at making substantive arguments than him. Both on the liberal and conservative justices. It was a from a NPR discussion with their justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, who said that he was having a tough first year on the court. That he was not used to having the liberal justices as peers and maybe wasn’t has humble as he should be coming into the court. But it is all rumor, since court is really tight lipped about it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-28 15:41:57
March 28 2018 15:38 GMT
#1035
On March 28 2018 22:57 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2018 21:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:
As much as I hate Jones, I think what he's done is close enough to Obama/Bush/Trump with a Hitler 'stache that he can get away with it. You can't watch the video and think "oh, this kid was actually a Hitler Youth" anymore than you can see those signs and think "oh yeah, Obama really is Hitler."

It's not as bad as e.g. doctoring and sharing a photo shoot so that it looks like someone is tearing up the Constitution and then being like "oh, lighten up, it's just satire" because the image alone contains no clues to that effect.
disclaimer: I haven't watched the video due to only mobile internet. This might affect the validity of my following paragraph. If so, please tell me so I can make amendments.

I have to disagree with you here.
The stark contrast of a youth movement that is organized by the pupils themselves which is an expression of Independent thought and perspective on life, to a hierarchical Hitler youth organisation that is run by adults to preserve the "Volkskörper" to build an army to dominate the world is very much a disgrace and is to be condemned. And in my opinion not harmless at all but full of contemp for the pupils as well as utter ignorance of the Hitler youth's context.


I mean, it's repugnant and parallels are almost all incorrect beyond "these people are young," but you can't say "you can't draw these comparisons because they're incorrect" in the United States when it comes to political speech. You can just barely do it for commercial speech and even then it's childishly easy to weasel your way out of it. There is zero will for censuring candidates for demonstrably false statements, let alone media networks drawing uninformed and incorrect parallels.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 28 2018 15:43 GMT
#1036
On March 29 2018 00:29 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2018 00:08 iamthedave wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:36 Plansix wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.


What do you mean by 'outmatched'?

And surely RBG is going soon? She's ridiculously old. Hard to believe she'll make it through Trump's whole 8 years. Just hope the Democrats control enough of congress to refuse interviews when he tries to pick one.

The sitting justices are smarter and more capable at making substantive arguments than him. Both on the liberal and conservative justices. It was a from a NPR discussion with their justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, who said that he was having a tough first year on the court. That he was not used to having the liberal justices as peers and maybe wasn’t has humble as he should be coming into the court. But it is all rumor, since court is really tight lipped about it.

interesting to hear; wouldn't be surprising, what with his choice being partly based on ideology rather than competence.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 28 2018 15:55 GMT
#1037
On March 29 2018 00:43 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2018 00:29 Plansix wrote:
On March 29 2018 00:08 iamthedave wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:36 Plansix wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.


What do you mean by 'outmatched'?

And surely RBG is going soon? She's ridiculously old. Hard to believe she'll make it through Trump's whole 8 years. Just hope the Democrats control enough of congress to refuse interviews when he tries to pick one.

The sitting justices are smarter and more capable at making substantive arguments than him. Both on the liberal and conservative justices. It was a from a NPR discussion with their justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, who said that he was having a tough first year on the court. That he was not used to having the liberal justices as peers and maybe wasn’t has humble as he should be coming into the court. But it is all rumor, since court is really tight lipped about it.

interesting to hear; wouldn't be surprising, what with his choice being partly based on ideology rather than competence.

He is a very capable Judge, so I don’t want to give the impression he was not qualified. My impression is that he went from being the best and brightest in his section of the world to being one of nine staggeringly smart people. All with way more experience than him.

He also did some really dumb stuff, like speak at a Trump Hotel after being confirmed and I think he campaigned for Mitch McConnell. Just some really stupid unforced errors that I was really surprised he went through with. Which makes me believe that he got off on the wrong foot with the liberal justices nd had to be reminded that they are not his opposition.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/28/neil-gorsuch-trump-hotel-speech-243251
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 28 2018 16:08 GMT
#1038
On March 29 2018 00:55 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2018 00:43 zlefin wrote:
On March 29 2018 00:29 Plansix wrote:
On March 29 2018 00:08 iamthedave wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:36 Plansix wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.


What do you mean by 'outmatched'?

And surely RBG is going soon? She's ridiculously old. Hard to believe she'll make it through Trump's whole 8 years. Just hope the Democrats control enough of congress to refuse interviews when he tries to pick one.

The sitting justices are smarter and more capable at making substantive arguments than him. Both on the liberal and conservative justices. It was a from a NPR discussion with their justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, who said that he was having a tough first year on the court. That he was not used to having the liberal justices as peers and maybe wasn’t has humble as he should be coming into the court. But it is all rumor, since court is really tight lipped about it.

interesting to hear; wouldn't be surprising, what with his choice being partly based on ideology rather than competence.

He is a very capable Judge, so I don’t want to give the impression he was not qualified. My impression is that he went from being the best and brightest in his section of the world to being one of nine staggeringly smart people. All with way more experience than him.

He also did some really dumb stuff, like speak at a Trump Hotel after being confirmed and I think he campaigned for Mitch McConnell. Just some really stupid unforced errors that I was really surprised he went through with. Which makes me believe that he got off on the wrong foot with the liberal justices nd had to be reminded that they are not his opposition.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/28/neil-gorsuch-trump-hotel-speech-243251

aye, not unqualified, and a perfectly decent judge; but not really the absolute cream of the crop either, just quite good.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
March 28 2018 16:15 GMT
#1039
On March 29 2018 00:43 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2018 00:29 Plansix wrote:
On March 29 2018 00:08 iamthedave wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:36 Plansix wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 28 2018 23:19 Plansix wrote:
It is almost impossible to gauge without seeing the makeup of congress. But I wouldn’t have the creeping dread that RBG will pass away and we will have a super conservative supreme court.


If RBG dies soon and is replaced with another Scalia, we're screwed.

Especially with campaign finance reform and limits on election spending. Any new law will be met with countless lawsuits that will travel all the way up to the high court. A bench of Alito 2.0 will make it very hard to curb spending on elections. And then there is the slow erosion of civil rights protections like the voters rights act and laws against redlining. People act like it won’t happen, but that is what I thought about the voters rights act.

On March 28 2018 23:35 farvacola wrote:
Given that Scalia approved of Chevron deference to agency interpretations of statutes, a Scalia-like pick wouldn't be as bad who Trump picks next. Scalia and Gorsuch wouldn't have gotten along in all likelihood.

From the limited reports I have seen from the court, it sounds like Gorsuch is out matched by most of the justices.


What do you mean by 'outmatched'?

And surely RBG is going soon? She's ridiculously old. Hard to believe she'll make it through Trump's whole 8 years. Just hope the Democrats control enough of congress to refuse interviews when he tries to pick one.

The sitting justices are smarter and more capable at making substantive arguments than him. Both on the liberal and conservative justices. It was a from a NPR discussion with their justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, who said that he was having a tough first year on the court. That he was not used to having the liberal justices as peers and maybe wasn’t has humble as he should be coming into the court. But it is all rumor, since court is really tight lipped about it.

interesting to hear; wouldn't be surprising, what with his choice being partly based on ideology rather than competence.


Experience matters a lot when you get to that level of law (or business, or several other disciplines). He'll be coming in with a very deep understanding of law and his practice, but with a much less broad understanding of how the Supreme Court does its business, the relationships between the other justices, and nowhere near the same remembrance of certain precedents they'll have set in prior judgements.

Think of it like joining a philosopher's club. You bring this great argument you thought of, only to discover they talked that over last year. It doesn't mean you're not on their level, you're just not sure where everyone else in the room is at yet. And people who ought to hate each other respect each other's acumen too much for it to be a problem.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 28 2018 16:19 GMT
#1040
He was walking into a group of liberal justices who have been debating with Scalia for years, if not a couple decades. There wasn't a lot that he was going to bring that hasn't been debated already.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
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