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On July 18 2018 04:25 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 04:14 Djabanete wrote:On July 18 2018 01:09 xDaunt wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If you guys are upset with the Democratic Party now, just wait for them to torpedo Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. We can already see it coming a mile away: Frustrated Democratic lawmakers are offering Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez some advice: Cool it.
Ocasio-Cortez stunned the political world with her upset primary victory last month over Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-N.Y.), the head of the House Democratic Caucus and a rising star within the party.
But while the improbable win made Ocasio-Cortez an overnight progressive superstar, a number of House Democrats are up in arms over her no-holds-barred approach, particularly her recent accusation that Crowley, who has endorsed her candidacy, is seeking to topple her bid with a third-party run.
Some legislators are voicing concerns that Ocasio-Cortez appears set on using her newfound star power to attack Democrats from the left flank, threatening to divide the party — and undermine its chances at retaking the House — in a midterm election year when leaders are scrambling to form a united front against President Trump and Republicans.
The members are not mincing words, warning that Ocasio-Cortez is making enemies of soon-to-be colleagues even before she arrives on Capitol Hill, as she’s expected to do after November’s midterms.
“She’s carrying on and she ain’t gonna make friends that way,” said Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.). “Joe conceded, wished her well, said he would support her … so she doesn’t know what the hell she’s talking about.”
“She’s not asking my advice,” he added, “[but] I would do it differently, rather than make enemies of people.”
Asked if Ocasio-Cortez is, indeed, making enemies of fellow Democrats, Pascrell didn’t hesitate.
“Yes,” he said. “No doubt about it.” Read the rest here. Now, in fairness, AOC clearly has some maturing to do and has (predictably) looked badly out of her depth on the national scene, as is evidenced by the story about her ill-considered tweet regarding Crowley as is discussed later in the Hill article linked above, or by her recent comments on Israel in which she, at best, comes off as a clueless ditz. But this doesn't change the fact that the Democrat leadership is continuing its tradition of showing hostility towards its leftist base and the leaders that come from it. At some point, there's going to be a reckoning, but the right leader from the left has to emerge. I don't think AOC is it. Surveying other national figures, I don't think that person has emerged yet. I agree that that sounds like torpedoing. About your clueless ditz comment. I did not watch the video but I read the story. I assume she came off badly in the video, in which case she might be not eloquent, not informed, or both eloquent and informed but not well rested. That said, the story you linked shows a bad side of political news coverage that is devoted to gloating over weakness and magnifying the weakness in the public perception, rather than informing readers. Every turn of phrase is crafted to put her in a bad light, starting with the ridiculous title: she "started" the Israel occupation controversy? Regarding the substance, her use of the term occupation is unremarkable, and the justification she touches on, though perhaps not too well articulated, is valid. The status quo for decades has been illegal settlers making gradual inroads into Palestinian territory with the full protection of the IDF, with the effect of carving up the geography and hemming in Palestinians in a shrinking region with walls and checkpoints. Travel and commerce are controlled by the IDF. AOC's stated view of this, including that a human rights lens is applicable to the situation, is at least more correct than the implied position of some of her critics in the story, which seems to be that the word occupation is misapplied. Her problem wasn't so much the position she took as it was the fact that she was demonstrably uncomfortable with the material, reversing herself during the interview and then stating something to the effect of "I am not an expert on this stuff." It was clear that the extent of her knowledge on this stuff encompassed only broad-based platitudes instead of a basic degree of competency.
This is like what Chomsky talked about in Manufacturing Consent. He says that the format of US media of running short interviews inherently favors the status quo, because the breakneck pacing doesn't offer room for nuance and exploration. In such an environment common sense platitudes and talking points thrive, whereas anyone critical of the US government will find themselves under immense pressure to effectively state their case in the small space allocated to them.
In the case of AOC, something similar happened. Because she takes a position critical of Israel she suddenly finds herself ill-prepared in a hostile environment and she is asked to make a controversial case while pressed for time and facing journalists that have Israeli talking points at the ready. The problem is that the anti-imperial left doesn't have any institutional heft and their program is given no respect by the mainstream. There is also a lack of easily available resources for someone like AOC to prep herself with, some sort of quick guide to giving effective answers in a hostile media environment. Normal politicians have staff to help prepare them for these situations, and they have more experience.
Also, AOC has a degree in International Relations. She is capable of understanding the Israeli-Palestine conflict, it's just that she was caught off-guard this time. The language of a "clueless ditz" honestly seems entirely misplaced to me, and reminds me of stereotypes about Latina women.
In general Democratic politicians will seek to pressure her to change her hardline stances, since they view her as a threat, and they will patronize her as a young naïve waif since that's their most direct line of attack, and some liberals like to punch left. I think that's to be expected, but it's unfortunate.
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Problem is it means the Democrats - relying on the idea of a 'blue wave' - are now looking at the results of said wave and going, 'eh, not sure we want this after all'.
If the people are saying 'we'll vote for this' it's not a particularly good idea to start sabotaging it. The better approach would be to talk to her and get to know her and try to bring her into the larger fold, not talk to and humiliate her. All that will do is piss off her supporters, which, as Bernie Sanders demonstrated, doesn't get them to vote Democrat. They just stay home and seethe.
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sorry to be late to the party but that double negative shit was so sad to listen to. i would hope those who voted for him feel just how stupid he thinks we all are. but i do not expect that is the case for that magical 40%.
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On July 18 2018 21:32 brian wrote:
sorry to be late to the party but that double negative shit was so sad to listen to. i would hope those who voted for him feel just how stupid he thinks we all are. but i do not expect that is the case for that magical 40%.
5D chess, Brian. 5D chess. He only seems suspiciously like a moron every time he opens his mouth, moves, or acts. He's actually the smartest President in history, and way smarter than every other world leader.
Just ask him, he'll tell you. He has the best words.
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On July 18 2018 20:16 iamthedave wrote:
Problem is it means the Democrats - relying on the idea of a 'blue wave' - are now looking at the results of said wave and going, 'eh, not sure we want this after all'.
If the people are saying 'we'll vote for this' it's not a particularly good idea to start sabotaging it. The better approach would be to talk to her and get to know her and try to bring her into the larger fold, not talk to and humiliate her. All that will do is piss off her supporters, which, as Bernie Sanders demonstrated, doesn't get them to vote Democrat. They just stay home and seethe.
The problem with midterm elections is that there is no overriding national narrative to associate with them. Each district and state has its own problems that voters are looking to have addressed. So it is hard to develop a national plan that will work in every state. The “blue wave” isn’t something that the candidates are relying on specifically, but a talking point that the media is using to describe voter engagement.
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On July 18 2018 21:41 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 21:32 brian wrote:
sorry to be late to the party but that double negative shit was so sad to listen to. i would hope those who voted for him feel just how stupid he thinks we all are. but i do not expect that is the case for that magical 40%. 5D chess, Brian. 5D chess. He only seems suspiciously like a moron every time he opens his mouth, moves, or acts. He's actually the smartest President in history, and way smarter than every other world leader. Just ask him, he'll tell you. He has the best words.
I love how viral and meme'd Trump's renege has become. I'm seeing pictures all over social media of how Thanos denied that he was the finger snapper (and so we should believe him) and how Darth Vader clarified to Luke that Vader is his mother, not father.
I imagine the only reason why Trump reversed his position was because Fox News was ripping him apart, and his constituents watch that network. If even the conservative propaganda machine can't support Trump's idiocy, then even Trump knows he goofed big time.
Some of the Fox crew that gave Trump serious shit for his wussing out in front of Putin:
"Several prominent Fox News hosts could not believe what they saw Monday in President Trump’s overtly deferential presser with Russian President Vladimir Putin."
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Following the presser, Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto—appearing on the Fox Business Network—called it a “disgusting” display. Trump was “essentially letting the guy get away with this, not even offering a mild, a mild criticism,” Cavuto said. “That’s what made his performance disgusting. Only way I feel. Not a right or left thing to me. It is wrong.”
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"Fellow Fox host Stuart Varney, who routinely boosts Trump’s policies, bashed the president for what was “not a very forceful presentation.” Two of the conservative host’s guests joined in, saying Putin came out ahead."
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"“He outmaneuvered our president,” FBN business reporter Ashley Webster said. “I was very surprised. I thought Trump was going to push hard.”"
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"Fox & Friends Weekend host Abby Huntsman—daughter of Jon Huntsman, Trump’s ambassador to Russia—also minced no words in criticizing the president whom she regularly defends."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fox-news-hosts-bash-trump’s-‘disgusting’-putin-presser/ar-AAAaz4Q
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While I don't really hold not knowing Israel-Palestinian relations against AOC, it was a mistake to articulate an opinion without the ability to substantiate it. It made her look kind of shallow like this was the line she adopted without doing her own research. I get that she's new to politics and that there's a learning curve, but she's approaching the point where her errors can't all be waved off as 'rookie mistakes'. Or she needs to try harder.
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I wonder if this means that, so far covertly, the NRA is now under Federal investigation. Obvious way too get into the political arena is to go through the NRA, they are pretty much crazy and to get into the guise of having a NRA gun rights in Russia. But if the NRA knowingly funneled foreign money into a political campaign then holy...
A federal grand jury indicted Mariia Butina on Tuesday on charges of conspiracy and acting as a foreign agent, adding a new charge against the Russian national, who was arrested over the weekend in Washington and accused of playing a part in a secret Russian attempt to influence U.S. politics.
Jessie Liu, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, signed off on the two-count indictment against Butina, 29, who is accused of working as an unregistered Kremlin agent from at least 2015 through the present day.
Butina had been charged Monday with conspiracy to act as an agent of a foreign government, an offense with a statutory maximum of five years in prison. On Tuesday, U.S. officials persuaded the grand jury to add the second offense of acting as the foreign agent, which has its own 10-year-maximum prison sentence.
Like the charging documents released Monday, the latest complaint against Butina says she was working under the direction of a high-level official in the Russian government and Russian central bank “to arrange introductions to U.S. persons having influence in American politics, including an organization promoting gun rights … for the purpose of advancing the interests of the Russian Federation.”
While the indictment doesn’t name the Russian official or the gun rights group, it appears to refer to Alexander Torshin, an associate of Russian President Vladimir Putin and a longtime supporter of the National Rifle Association who also reportedly has ties to both Russian security services and organized crime figures.
Robert Driscoll, an attorney for Butina, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the new indictment. On Monday, he issued a statement disputing the initial charge and said his client, a recent college graduate, was not “seeking to influence or undermine any specific policy or law of the United States — only at most to promote a better relationship between the two nations.”
Butina is scheduled to appear at a Wednesday afternoon hearing before Magistrate Judge Deborah Robinson at the federal courthouse in Washington.
Source
Butina began cultivating American contacts. In 2013, John Bolton, now Trump’s national security adviser, appeared in a Russian gun rights video that Right to Bear Arms used for pro-gun lobbying in Russia. Bolton was reportedly asked to appear in the video by David Keene, a recent president of the NRA, who had become acquainted with Torshin.
In April 2014, Butina flew to Indianapolis for the NRA convention. She posted photographs to the Russian social network VK showing that she mixed with Wayne LaPierre, the NRA’s pugnacious vice-president, along with heavyweight Republicans including Bobby Jindal, then governor of Louisiana, and Rick Santorum, a former US senator and presidential candidate.
That September, Butina invited Paul Erickson, a conservative political operative and veteran NRA member based in South Dakota, to address her gun rights group in Moscow. Six months later, according to US officials, she emailed an American political operative who appears to be Erickson to set out what she called project “Diplomacy”. Erickson did not respond to messages this week.
The subject line of Butina’s email, sent on 24 March 2015, appeared to liken her to a notorious KGB propagandist during the cold war. In the text, she declared that the Republican party, in the prosecutors’ words, “would likely obtain control over the US government after the 2016 elections”.
The disclosure this week raised an obvious question: what, at a time when most national opinion polling indicated an advantage for Hillary Clinton over her potential Republican rivals, had convinced Butina that the GOP would be triumphant in an election still 20 months away?
Saying that she wanted to build more constructive relations with the traditionally hawkish Republicans, Butina noted the NRA’s “central place and influence” in the party. She said she needed a $125,000 budget to fund her participation in GOP conferences. The American political operative provided her with a list of “important contacts” to meet.
A few weeks later, Butina was back in the US for the NRA’s 2015 convention. Held in Nashville, Tennessee, it again gave her access to the most in-demand figures in the conservative movement. She and Torshin chatted with Scott Walker, the governor of Wisconsin, who posed for a photograph with her and spoke a few phrases in Russian. In July, Butina attended the launch of Walker’s presidential campaign.
The Kremlin seems to have been interested. Court filings said Butina wrote Torshin a memo about a political campaign event that detailed her “private meeting” with the same candidate at the NRA convention. Walker was not identified by name. Then came Butina’s encounter with Trump at the Freedom Fest event in Las Vegas.
Source
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On July 18 2018 21:32 brian wrote:
sorry to be late to the party but that double negative shit was so sad to listen to. i would hope those who voted for him feel just how stupid he thinks we all are. but i do not expect that is the case for that magical 40%.
It's especially cute because he had interviews after the summit...and never brought it up then...and it also makes the context make no sense.
But in Trump's diseased mind we're only supposed to look at context when it's favorable to Trump, I guess!
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The funny thing is that Mariia Butina contacted civil rights groups and other agencies on other topics and those groups informed the FBI because of how strange it was.
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On July 18 2018 22:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
While I don't really hold not knowing Israel-Palestinian relations against AOC, it was a mistake to articulate an opinion without the ability to substantiate it. It made her look kind of shallow like this was the line she adopted without doing her own research. I get that she's new to politics and that there's a learning curve, but she's approaching the point where they can't all be waved off as 'rookie mistakes'. Or she needs to try harder.
personally, I find it somewhat surprising that a person with a degree in international relations to make such a mistake. It seems like an area such a person should know better.
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On July 18 2018 22:58 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 22:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
While I don't really hold not knowing Israel-Palestinian relations against AOC, it was a mistake to articulate an opinion without the ability to substantiate it. It made her look kind of shallow like this was the line she adopted without doing her own research. I get that she's new to politics and that there's a learning curve, but she's approaching the point where they can't all be waved off as 'rookie mistakes'. Or she needs to try harder. personally, I find it somewhat surprising that a person with a degree in international relations to make such a mistake. It seems like an area such a person should know better.
unless she got a grad degree or went on to work in the field i wouldn't hold it against her (she got a BA). one of my undergrad degrees was bio and i did all the works with it (research, etc.) and i don't remember much at this point, despite working for a healthcare company coming out of school. use it or lose it.
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On July 18 2018 22:51 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 21:32 brian wrote:
sorry to be late to the party but that double negative shit was so sad to listen to. i would hope those who voted for him feel just how stupid he thinks we all are. but i do not expect that is the case for that magical 40%. It's especially cute because he had interviews after the summit...and never brought it up then...and it also makes the context make no sense. But in Trump's diseased mind we're only supposed to look at context when it's favorable to Trump, I guess!
it’s just a farce. he has stated unequivocally on multiple occasions that he believes both the IC is inept and that russia did not meddle in the elections. nobody ought to be stupid enough to hear ‘oops i meant would NOT haha 😂 ‘ and not feel insulted.
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On July 18 2018 23:06 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 22:58 zlefin wrote:On July 18 2018 22:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
While I don't really hold not knowing Israel-Palestinian relations against AOC, it was a mistake to articulate an opinion without the ability to substantiate it. It made her look kind of shallow like this was the line she adopted without doing her own research. I get that she's new to politics and that there's a learning curve, but she's approaching the point where they can't all be waved off as 'rookie mistakes'. Or she needs to try harder. personally, I find it somewhat surprising that a person with a degree in international relations to make such a mistake. It seems like an area such a person should know better. unless she got a grad degree or went on to work in the field i wouldn't hold it against her (she got a BA). one of my undergrad degrees was bio and i did all the works with it (research, etc.) and i don't remember much at this point, despite working for a healthcare company coming out of school. use it or lose it.
And there are a lot of international relations out there too. Most experts have a focus in the relations for a region, not the whole world. But its important as a politician to not overreach and make unforced errors.
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On July 18 2018 23:41 JimmiC wrote:
I think we no know that understanding Foreign relations and not saying dumb shit ARE NOT requirements to becoming the POTUS. So she should still be fine. I mean she has 20 years to work on this stuff.
20? More like 40!
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On July 18 2018 23:12 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2018 22:51 TheTenthDoc wrote:On July 18 2018 21:32 brian wrote:
sorry to be late to the party but that double negative shit was so sad to listen to. i would hope those who voted for him feel just how stupid he thinks we all are. but i do not expect that is the case for that magical 40%. It's especially cute because he had interviews after the summit...and never brought it up then...and it also makes the context make no sense. But in Trump's diseased mind we're only supposed to look at context when it's favorable to Trump, I guess! it’s just a farce. he has stated unequivocally on multiple occasions that he believes both the IC is inept and that russia did not meddle in the elections. nobody ought to be stupid enough to hear ‘oops i meant would NOT haha 😂 ‘ and not feel insulted.
I would love to see the results of a poll of conservatives being asked "Do you think Donald Trump believes Russia meddled with the election to help him win" and "Do you think Russia meddled with the election to help Trump win" after those conservatives are informed of the total 180 Trump just did.
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No one should be shocked by this. The nature of ICE and who it is designed to hunt down and detaine pretty much assured abuses like theses. This and the poor care of the separated children only shows how dysfunctional this agency is and how little oversight exists.
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EPT
