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On May 01 2025 12:37 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +i do not think conservatives as a group are super dumb. they know how to win elections. Canadian conservatives just suffered a massively embarrassing loss, lmao.
Seemed obvious and not embarrassing to me.
https://youtube.com/shorts/yNdnYa-iflQ?si=ovm9mpkC373mt3Sr
I guess you do not know much about Canadian politics to make an out of touch comment like this.
Ontario is run by a right wing party. Quebec is run by a right-of-center party. When that happens Quebec and Ontario vote for Liberals on the Federal level. Ontario almost never has a conservative provincially and federally simultaneously.
It is probably super dumb of me to point this out though.
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Yes, the conservatives, who were poised to win by a landslide because of how super unpopular Trudeau was by the end, losing the election isn't embarassing at all, it's what was always going to happen based on some tiny sample size trends.
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On May 01 2025 07:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2025 21:42 WombaT wrote:
AI generated content absolutely 100% needs some kind of digital watermarking, across the board or we are really, really fucked.
From my understanding it’s not even something that tricky to do at all either, and I believe some already do so. That photo isn't AI generated tho. It's not even trying to look real. It's a photo of the hand and someone writing the interpretation of the tattoo above and beneath. MS Paint could do that in the 90s.
He knows, he was responding to the lower part of my previous post. That's the idea, if the crudest MS Paint job can fool a lot of people (elderly in particular) how are we going to manage politically motivated AI edits and generated content.
On May 01 2025 05:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2025 21:42 WombaT wrote:
AI generated content absolutely 100% needs some kind of digital watermarking, across the board or we are really, really fucked.
From my understanding it’s not even something that tricky to do at all either, and I believe some already do so. My brother works with this and he mentioned that what we basically do have is the ability to watermark actual photos. I think the idea of successfully regulating all AI sounds kinda pipe-dreamy but that a cultural shift towards 'this image/video doesn't have the watermark showing it was taken by a real camera thus we can't conclude that it's real' might eventually happen, at least to such a degree that it's somewhat possible to actually discern real from not real - not to the degree that nobody or even big swaths get fooled. The latter ship has sailed and I'm not even sure it was ever at the harbor.
Can you elaborate a bit on how it works? What would stop AI from mimicking it?
We're already seeing an arms race between AI text detectors and AI humanizing tools, since there's a massive demand for students to be able to pass AI generated text as their own.
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I'm also wondering if AI can create images out of nothing why can't they create this "real-camera watermark"
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I am very sceptical that there is any way to watermark an image that can't be reverse-engineered, either by AI or just good-old-fashioned human hackery.
The fundamental issue is that if the image and its watermark are self-contained - that is, anyone receiving a copy of the image can validate it without access to the source - the validation system is therefore public. But if the validation system is public, you have everything you need to reverse-engineer it, or for an AI to learn to fake it.
Most of the big players have signed onto a thing called C2CA, led by Adobe, which is basically just a very detailed blob of metadata that lives alongside the image. The idea is straightforward: everything that happens to the image from creation through modification through publication is supposed to be tracked, signed, and stapled to the image. It's a good idea in theory, and its got an impressive sign-on list, from Google to Meta to OpenAI.
+ Show Spoiler +
The issue is that it's just a sidecar, sent around with the image. The critical security information is there in the file, and can therefore be modified just like the file itself. Yes, there's a signing system via Adobe, Microsoft etc, but those signatures don't validate the source, they just certify that some image, and not even necessarily the same image, was sent to Adobe by person X on date Y.
There are plenty of examples of people transplanting certificates and hacking the dates to get a AI-generated image that reads as certified by Adobe on a date three weeks in the future, and so on. Yes, the metadata makes it a bit harder, but "a bit harder" is very underwhelming for such a big-name push on such a critical problem.
The only way to dodge the arms-race is to have a validation system that is not self-contained. Basically you'd need the C2CA history, but with each step verified live by the actual providers using a chain of credentials and hashes embedded in the file. All the camera manufacturers would have to verify and store details of every signed photo taken with their gear, Adobe would have to verify and track the edit history for every signed file, NYT would track the photos they published, etc etc. Everyone would have to provide some kind of interface for queries.
Then when you wanted to validate an image, you'd ping NYT and Adobe and Canon with credentials embedded in the file, probably along with some kind of hash of the image as-received, and then you'd have to reconstruct the chain and check whether it still matched.
That's expensive as hell for everyone involved. But it might work, and that's better than anything else I've seen proposed.
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Northern Ireland25270 Posts
I think one idea is you just add some digital noise to an AI generated image that is difficult for average Joe and Jane to remove. But that social media platforms etc can pick up and go ‘btw this is AI generated’
You wouldn’t stop folks training their own models for this purpose, but you could certainly mandate this of the big commercial hitters.
The problem with instituting some sensible regulation for some of the obvious potential pitfalls isn’t particularly a technical one, there’s just a real lack of will. Nations essentially want their guys and gals to win the arms race.
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Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On May 01 2025 18:55 Belisarius wrote:I am very sceptical that there is any way to watermark an image that can't be reverse-engineered, either by AI or just good-old-fashioned human hackery. The fundamental issue is that if the image and its watermark are self-contained - that is, anyone receiving a copy of the image can validate it without access to the source - the validation system is public, by definition. But if the validation system is public, you have everything you need to reverse-engineer it, or for an AI to learn to fake it. Most of the big players have signed onto a thing called C2CA, led by Adobe, which is basically just a very detailed blob of metadata that lives alongside the image. The idea is straightforward: everything that happens to the image from creation through modification through publication is supposed to be tracked, signed, and stapled to the image. It's a good idea in theory, and its got an impressive sign-on list, from Google to Meta to OpenAI. + Show Spoiler +The issue is that it's just a sidecar, sent around with the image. The critical security information is there in the file, and can therefore be modified just like the file itself. Yes, there's a signing system via Adobe, Microsoft etc, but those signatures don't validate the source, they just certify that some image, and not even necessarily the same image, was sent to Adobe by person X on date Y. There are plenty of examples of people transplanting certificates and hacking the dates to get a AI-generated image that reads as certified by Adobe on a date three weeks in the future, and so on. Yes, that stuff makes it a bit harder, but "a bit harder" is very underwhelming for such a big-name push on such a critical problem. The only way to dodge the arms-race is to have a validation system that is not self-contained. Basically you'd need the C2CA history, but with each step verified live by the actual providers using a chain of credentials and hashes embedded in the file. All the camera manufacturers would have to verify and store details of every signed photo taken with their gear, Adobe would have to verify and track the edit history for every signed file, NYT would track the photos they published, etc etc. Everyone would have to provide some kind of interface for queries. Then when you wanted to validate an image, you'd ping NYT and Adobe and Canon with credentials embedded in the file, probably along with some kind of hash of the image as-received, and then you'd have to reconstruct the chain and check whether it still matched. That's expensive as hell for everyone involved. But it might work, and that's better than anything else I've seen proposed.
Thanks for that breakdown, interesting read!
I assume it’s vaguely the same mechanism that does the (IMO good thing) of scrubbing off things like location metadata people might not know they’d be sharing with images uploaded to social networks?
Could you not simply have a bit of boxed off metadata that says ‘this is AI?’ and becomes read-only after the creation of the image? Alongside just having some noise embedded into the image itself?
The very tech savvy, and of course actual agents of (dis)information warfare will find workarounds I imagine regardless of what you do.
But that’ll always happen. The worry I have, is just with how easy it is to generate images, that anyone can do it and they’re getting better all the time.
If you can stem that potential flood at least, that’s something.
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Oh, of course. A watermark on the AI generated images works fine, there's no technical problem. But it will never be more than a speedbump. There will always be an open source option a half step behind that's not watermarked. There will also always be ways to clean the watermarks off images generated by the compliant shops. It's a shady website and a couple of extra clicks at most.
The idea behind Drone's comment is to watermark the real images, not the fake ones. Which is harder, but if you get it to work, it would be much more powerful.
The read-only thing doesn't work. There's no way to make a file read-only once it's out in the wild, except by having someone hold a copy or hash of it and constantly ask them whether it's changed.
Really, though, all these things are speedbumps. Even the full verified chain might be beaten by someone physically jailbreaking a signable camera and tricking it into thinking it took a different image. I'm sure there would be a way to rip out the sensor and inject something else that Canon would then happily sign as real footage. Nothing is foolproof.
I guess it's about how hard we collectively want it to be, and what we're willing to stump up to achieve that. A watermark on the big AI vendors is just locking your house, that's common sense. C2CA etc are owning some security cameras and a dog. Live verifying the chain is hiring a security guard. It's a lot better, but if Ocean's eleven or the FSB wanted to get into your house, they'd still manage it.
My personal view is that verifiable truth is the bottom plank of any democracy, and since AI is an existential threat to truth, I would be getting the biggest shiniest security system I could buy. With lasers, even.
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My personal view is that verifiable truth is the bottom plank of any democracy, and since AI is an existential threat to truth, I would be getting the biggest shiniest security system I could buy. With lasers, even.
Very much this, the AI capacity for deepfakes screams Extremely Harmful to Society to me, and should to just about anyone who isnt the kind of person to fetishize new tech for new tech's sake.
Society is already being aggressively assaulted by lies and misinformation, adding a tool that makes it basically impossible for any real layman to understand what is and isn't real is unbelievably dangerous.
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United States42668 Posts
On May 01 2025 12:37 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +i do not think conservatives as a group are super dumb. they know how to win elections. Canadian conservatives just suffered a massively embarrassing loss, lmao. Conservatives arent good at winning elections, milquetoasts centrists are bad at winning them, conservatives like the Republicans are unbelievably lucky that the likes of the Democrats in the US exist, 'cause any party that was even moderately well liked would run circles around their asses electorally. The fascistic conservative upwelling doesn't happen without neoliberal Democrat centrists being a pack of out of touch technocratic incompetents.
If you look at voter intentions over time the Conservatives didn’t actually decline that much from their 25 point lead. The Liberals benefited from tactical voting from the anti Conservative bloc. Faced with the genuine threat of a far right populist government and a very visible example of how badly that can go in their southern neighbour the left wing voters held their noses and voted centrist. Not because they liked centrism but because you don’t vote based on signaling during a national emergency, you vote strictly on a results calculus.
We shouldn’t be too hasty to count conservative branded populism out. It’s like how in the UK Labour won in an absolute landslide but only because the Conservative vote was split by an even further right wing party, Reform. The result may be good but understanding why we won is important if it is to be repeated.
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U.S.-citizen family 'traumatized' after ICE raided their Oklahoma home in search of someone else
Federal immigration agents searched the home of a family in Oklahoma and seized their belongings when conducting a search warrant issued for someone else.
The U.S. citizen mother of three daughters said the family has been "traumatized" since they were wrongly subjected to a search and seizure warrant that had the names of the residents who previously lived in her Oklahoma City home.
“We’re citizens. That’s what I kept saying. We’re citizens,” the woman told KFOR, an NBC-affiliated local TV news station. “They were very dismissive, very rough, very careless."
According to KFOR, which first reported the story, the immigration agents raided the home last week. They had a search warrant for the home, but the suspects listed on the warrant were not living in the house anymore.
About 20 armed agents busted through the door in the middle of the night, KFOR reported.
At first, the mother didn't know who they were. “It was dark. All the lights were off,” she said. "My initial thought was we were being robbed — that my daughters, being females, were being kidnapped."
The mother, whose identity was not revealed and who KFOR referred to by the pseudonym "Marisa" in its reporting, told the TV station the men who entered her home identified themselves as federal agents with the U.S. Marshals Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigations and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"The U.S. Marshal Service was not involved in the incident," Brady McCarron, deputy chief of public affairs at the United States Marshals Service, told NBC News in an email Tuesday.
'We didn't do anything'
A spokesperson for the FBI referred NBC News' request for comment to Homeland Security Investigations, an agency within the Department of Homeland Security that investigates criminal cases.
A senior DHS official confirmed to NBC News on Wednesday that ICE carried out "a court-authorized search warrant for a large-scale human smuggling investigation," involving eight Guatemalan nationals indicted in a federal case in the Northern District of Oklahoma.
“The search warrants included the location of an address where U.S. citizens recently moved. The previous residents were the intended targets," the official said.
...
The mother and her daughters wrongly targeted had recently moved from Maryland, settling in the rented home in Oklahoma City just a couple of weeks ago — hoping for a slower, more affordable lifestyle, KFOR reported. The father was set to join the family in their new home this weekend.
Though none of the family members were the subjects of the warrant, federal agents raided their home and confiscated their belongings. They took their phones, laptops and all their cash savings as "evidence," KFOR reported.
"I said you took my phone. We have no money. I just moved here,” the mother said. “I have to feed my children. I’m going to need gas money. I need to be able to get around. Like, how do you just leave me like this? Like an abandoned dog.”
“I kept pleading. I kept telling them we weren’t criminals. They were treating us like criminals. We were here by ourselves. We didn’t do anything," the mother added.
She said the agents ordered her and her daughters to step outside, even though it was raining and they barely were given time to put on clothes.
“They wanted me to change in front of all of them, in between all of them,” she said. “My husband has not even seen my daughter in her undergarments — her own dad, because it’s respectful. You have her out there, a minor, in her underwear,” the woman told KFOR.
“One of them said, ‘I know it was a little rough this morning,’” she said. “It was so denigrating. That you do all of this to a family, to women, your fellow citizens. And it was a little rough? You literally traumatized me and my daughters for life. We’re going to have to go get help or get over this somehow.”
Before the agents left, the mother asked when could the family get their belongings back and they said it could be days or even months, KFOR reported.
DHS did not comment on how the mother described and characterized the actions of the agents.
nothing to see here. just another happy little accident during the best 100 days of any presidency ever.
golden era guys, why don't you smile? and say thank you to dear leader.
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Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On May 01 2025 21:37 Belisarius wrote:
Oh, of course. A watermark on the AI generated images works fine, there's no technical problem. But it will never be more than a speedbump. There will always be an open source option a half step behind that's not watermarked. There will also always be ways to clean the watermarks off images generated by the compliant shops. It's a shady website and a couple of extra clicks at most.
The idea behind Drone's comment is to watermark the real images, not the fake ones. Which is harder, but if you get it to work, it would be much more powerful.
The read-only thing doesn't work. There's no way to make a file read-only once it's out in the wild, except by having someone hold a copy or hash of it and constantly ask them whether it's changed.
Really, though, all these things are speedbumps. Even the full verified chain might be beaten by someone physically jailbreaking a signable camera and tricking it into thinking it took a different image. I'm sure there would be a way to rip out the sensor and inject something else that Canon would then happily sign as real footage. Nothing is foolproof.
I guess it's about how hard we collectively want it to be, and what we're willing to stump up to achieve that. A watermark on the big AI vendors is just locking your house, that's common sense. C2CA etc are owning some security cameras and a dog. Live verifying the chain is hiring a security guard. It's a lot better, but if Ocean's eleven or the FSB wanted to get into your house, they'd still manage it.
My personal view is that verifiable truth is the bottom plank of any democracy, and since AI is an existential threat to truth, I would be getting the biggest shiniest security system I could buy. With lasers, even.
Cheers again for the technical insight!
Could you not encrypt the ‘this is AI’ flag in such a way that it couldn’t be altered after the fact? I mean a simple screencap gets around that, but hey it can’t be bad to have.
Or make the ‘digital noise’ such that it destroys the image if you remove it?
It’s been many moons ago but I saw a proof of concept in watermarking audio where trying to scrub it from the file was borderline impossible, because the watermark waveforms intersected with the music/speech. Audio file structures and containers are more in my wheelhouse than that of images, so I don’t know how doable such a thing is on the latter.
As per the bolded, well yeah 100%. The problem with AI stuff is we’re not even really doing the locking the house part, the regulatory frameworks and enforcement are appalling. Negligent even. It’s less not locking your house and more having a banner out front saying ‘We’re going travelling for 3 months, here are the dates and we forgot to lock up!’
They shall do, but they’ve kind of been always able to. If someone is selling me a security system, no matter how good it is I deep down know that Ocean’s 11 or the KGB or whoever could probably get to me. As long as I’m protected against Tom, Dick and possibly Harry, I’m largely alright with that.
I think it’s a realistic aspiration, and a desirable one, to at least get to that level of protection.
Expert photoshoppers have existed for a fair while and largely haven’t destroyed society as we know it. But there’s a fair bit of skill and art involved there. There’s none of those barriers to prompting AI models
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Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On May 01 2025 22:26 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +My personal view is that verifiable truth is the bottom plank of any democracy, and since AI is an existential threat to truth, I would be getting the biggest shiniest security system I could buy. With lasers, even. Very much this, the AI capacity for deepfakes screams Extremely Harmful to Society to me, and should to just about anyone who isnt the kind of person to fetishize new tech for new tech's sake. Society is already being aggressively assaulted by lies and misinformation, adding a tool that makes it basically impossible for any real layman to understand what is and isn't real is unbelievably dangerous.
I actually checked out some deepfake porn for research purposes, after reading a story about it. I’d expected it to be extremely obviously fake, but it was while imperfect, some of it was not that far off. Some of it obviously was fake. And bear in mind I knew it was fake going in.
It’s not just political misinformation, there’s all sorts of other unethical applications.
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On May 01 2025 23:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2025 12:37 Zambrah wrote:i do not think conservatives as a group are super dumb. they know how to win elections. Canadian conservatives just suffered a massively embarrassing loss, lmao. Conservatives arent good at winning elections, milquetoasts centrists are bad at winning them, conservatives like the Republicans are unbelievably lucky that the likes of the Democrats in the US exist, 'cause any party that was even moderately well liked would run circles around their asses electorally. The fascistic conservative upwelling doesn't happen without neoliberal Democrat centrists being a pack of out of touch technocratic incompetents. If you look at voter intentions over time the Conservatives didn’t actually decline that much from their 25 point lead. The Liberals benefited from tactical voting from the anti Conservative bloc. Faced with the genuine threat of a far right populist government and a very visible example of how badly that can go in their southern neighbour the left wing voters held their noses and voted centrist. Not because they liked centrism but because you don’t vote based on signaling during a national emergency, you vote strictly on a results calculus. We shouldn’t be too hasty to count conservative branded populism out. It’s like how in the UK Labour won in an absolute landslide but only because the Conservative vote was split by an even further right wing party, Reform. The result may be good but understanding why we won is important if it is to be repeated.
Interestingly, Labour have turned out to be further right than the conservatives in many ways, implementing policies that the tories wished they could implement but never had the power.
That's what you get for voting for the lesser evil. Half the time they turn out to be the greater evil.
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United States42668 Posts
On May 01 2025 23:32 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2025 23:17 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2025 12:37 Zambrah wrote:i do not think conservatives as a group are super dumb. they know how to win elections. Canadian conservatives just suffered a massively embarrassing loss, lmao. Conservatives arent good at winning elections, milquetoasts centrists are bad at winning them, conservatives like the Republicans are unbelievably lucky that the likes of the Democrats in the US exist, 'cause any party that was even moderately well liked would run circles around their asses electorally. The fascistic conservative upwelling doesn't happen without neoliberal Democrat centrists being a pack of out of touch technocratic incompetents. If you look at voter intentions over time the Conservatives didn’t actually decline that much from their 25 point lead. The Liberals benefited from tactical voting from the anti Conservative bloc. Faced with the genuine threat of a far right populist government and a very visible example of how badly that can go in their southern neighbour the left wing voters held their noses and voted centrist. Not because they liked centrism but because you don’t vote based on signaling during a national emergency, you vote strictly on a results calculus. We shouldn’t be too hasty to count conservative branded populism out. It’s like how in the UK Labour won in an absolute landslide but only because the Conservative vote was split by an even further right wing party, Reform. The result may be good but understanding why we won is important if it is to be repeated. Interestingly, Labour have turned out to be further right than the conservatives in many ways, implementing policies that the tories wished they could implement but never had the power. That's what you get for voting for the lesser evil. Half the time they turn out to be the greater evil.
I blame the voters honestly. Cameron won in 2010 with a somewhat centrist message, and only barely through coalition with the Lib Dems after getting 36.1% of the vote. Meanwhile Labour and the Lib Dems collectively got 52% and if you count the other left leaning parties their share was even higher.
He won again pretty decisively in 2015 with a whopping 36.9% of the vote.
He shit the bed with Brexit and divided the country before fucking off leaving Theresa May to sort shit out.
She got the Conservative vote up to 42.3% while Corbyn's Labour peaked at 40% with third parties being nearly wiped out.
She was tasked with making a Brexit deal that met the core requirements of Brexit voters, that the UK retained benefits of membership of the EU while critically also leaving the EU. She failed and Boris showed up unelected as the populist face of Brexit.
Boris fucking Johnson then won in 2019 with 43.6% of the vote while Labour collapsed to 32.1% due to an inability to connect with the voters on literally any issue. Boris was most famous for being an actual clown willing to say and do anything to advance politically which is a pretty fucking huge indictment of the UK voters.
Boris pursued a strategy of giving out contracts to his mates, openly accepting lavish gifts, letting the weak die during COVID, dropping the ball with Brexit, and defunding critical services. His scandals got so bad that even the fucking Tories couldn't justify supporting him and the whole party imploded into a series of leadership challenges that briefly resulted in a policy of not servicing the national debt before the bond market crashed.
We saw 14 years of increasingly shit Conservative government, each somehow more corrupt and incompetent than the last, and we saw 14 years of their share of the vote increasing. 36.1%, 36.9%, 42.3%, 43.6%.
In 2024 Keir Starmer's Labour was facing off against the least charismatic man in history, one who had already accepted a job offer in Silicon Valley, one who had already lost an election in 2022 with a voting pool composed entirely of existing members of the Conservative Party. Sunak literally couldn't win a popularity contest in a room full of his own supporters. He only got to the top because the Conservative MPs couldn't allow Truss to stay there but were too ambitious to take the job themselves.
Against that opposition Starmer managed to score 33.7% of the popular vote, up from the 32.1% that we remember as Corbyn's catastrophic defeat to Boris Johnson. While the Conservatives and Reform combined got 38%.
Labour are pivoting right because UK voters are super fucking right wing. They keep fucking electing right wing governments and no matter how bad those right wing governments shit the bed the voters keep rewarding them. What would you have Labour do?
In my view they should consider formal alliance with the Lib Dems on a path to full reunification. The Lib Dems originally broke with Labour because Labour were going down a Trotskyite dead end in the era of Thatcher and the Lib Dems felt there was a centrist path forwards. Since Blair's New Labour the Lib Dems have been stuck in a bit of an identity crisis, they were right about Thatcher, Blair recognized they were correct, and Labour moved onto their platform. They have more in common than any other party and the country can't afford a left wing schism in the current era.
But the Lib Dems have a pro EU stance and Labour are desperate not to reveal any EU stance at all so they're stuck for now. I find it hard to blame Labour for the UK voters who voted in Boris. The voters had their chance to pick a left wing Labour government with Corbyn and they rejected it. Labour can only work with the voters they have, not the voters they wish that they had.
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On May 01 2025 23:19 Doublemint wrote:U.S.-citizen family 'traumatized' after ICE raided their Oklahoma home in search of someone elseShow nested quote +Federal immigration agents searched the home of a family in Oklahoma and seized their belongings when conducting a search warrant issued for someone else.
The U.S. citizen mother of three daughters said the family has been "traumatized" since they were wrongly subjected to a search and seizure warrant that had the names of the residents who previously lived in her Oklahoma City home.
“We’re citizens. That’s what I kept saying. We’re citizens,” the woman told KFOR, an NBC-affiliated local TV news station. “They were very dismissive, very rough, very careless."
According to KFOR, which first reported the story, the immigration agents raided the home last week. They had a search warrant for the home, but the suspects listed on the warrant were not living in the house anymore.
About 20 armed agents busted through the door in the middle of the night, KFOR reported.
At first, the mother didn't know who they were. “It was dark. All the lights were off,” she said. "My initial thought was we were being robbed — that my daughters, being females, were being kidnapped."
The mother, whose identity was not revealed and who KFOR referred to by the pseudonym "Marisa" in its reporting, told the TV station the men who entered her home identified themselves as federal agents with the U.S. Marshals Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigations and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"The U.S. Marshal Service was not involved in the incident," Brady McCarron, deputy chief of public affairs at the United States Marshals Service, told NBC News in an email Tuesday.
'We didn't do anything'
A spokesperson for the FBI referred NBC News' request for comment to Homeland Security Investigations, an agency within the Department of Homeland Security that investigates criminal cases.
A senior DHS official confirmed to NBC News on Wednesday that ICE carried out "a court-authorized search warrant for a large-scale human smuggling investigation," involving eight Guatemalan nationals indicted in a federal case in the Northern District of Oklahoma.
“The search warrants included the location of an address where U.S. citizens recently moved. The previous residents were the intended targets," the official said.
...
The mother and her daughters wrongly targeted had recently moved from Maryland, settling in the rented home in Oklahoma City just a couple of weeks ago — hoping for a slower, more affordable lifestyle, KFOR reported. The father was set to join the family in their new home this weekend.
Though none of the family members were the subjects of the warrant, federal agents raided their home and confiscated their belongings. They took their phones, laptops and all their cash savings as "evidence," KFOR reported.
"I said you took my phone. We have no money. I just moved here,” the mother said. “I have to feed my children. I’m going to need gas money. I need to be able to get around. Like, how do you just leave me like this? Like an abandoned dog.”
“I kept pleading. I kept telling them we weren’t criminals. They were treating us like criminals. We were here by ourselves. We didn’t do anything," the mother added.
She said the agents ordered her and her daughters to step outside, even though it was raining and they barely were given time to put on clothes.
“They wanted me to change in front of all of them, in between all of them,” she said. “My husband has not even seen my daughter in her undergarments — her own dad, because it’s respectful. You have her out there, a minor, in her underwear,” the woman told KFOR.
“One of them said, ‘I know it was a little rough this morning,’” she said. “It was so denigrating. That you do all of this to a family, to women, your fellow citizens. And it was a little rough? You literally traumatized me and my daughters for life. We’re going to have to go get help or get over this somehow.”
Before the agents left, the mother asked when could the family get their belongings back and they said it could be days or even months, KFOR reported.
DHS did not comment on how the mother described and characterized the actions of the agents. nothing to see here. just another happy little accident during the best 100 days of any presidency ever. golden era guys, why don't you smile? and say thank you to dear leader.
The government should go through the full process of a complete investigation with getting warrants to respect due process and the rights of everyone involved.
However, if that process takes so long that the criminals who were originally living in the house moved out resulting in the victimization of the innocent people who took their place, that's also the President's fault.
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On May 01 2025 21:37 Belisarius wrote:
Oh, of course. A watermark on the AI generated images works fine, there's no technical problem. But it will never be more than a speedbump. There will always be an open source option a half step behind that's not watermarked. There will also always be ways to clean the watermarks off images generated by the compliant shops. It's a shady website and a couple of extra clicks at most.
The idea behind Drone's comment is to watermark the real images, not the fake ones. Which is harder, but if you get it to work, it would be much more powerful.
The read-only thing doesn't work. There's no way to make a file read-only once it's out in the wild, except by having someone hold a copy or hash of it and constantly ask them whether it's changed.
Really, though, all these things are speedbumps. Even the full verified chain might be beaten by someone physically jailbreaking a signable camera and tricking it into thinking it took a different image. I'm sure there would be a way to rip out the sensor and inject something else that Canon would then happily sign as real footage. Nothing is foolproof.
I guess it's about how hard we collectively want it to be, and what we're willing to stump up to achieve that. A watermark on the big AI vendors is just locking your house, that's common sense. C2CA etc are owning some security cameras and a dog. Live verifying the chain is hiring a security guard. It's a lot better, but if Ocean's eleven or the FSB wanted to get into your house, they'd still manage it.
My personal view is that verifiable truth is the bottom plank of any democracy, and since AI is an existential threat to truth, I would be getting the biggest shiniest security system I could buy. With lasers, even.
We have plenty of guidelines regarding advertising that make it difficult for advertisers to lie to us. Isn't the simple answer to follow similar lines for AI generated content? Twitch/youtube have their creators tag 'PAID PROMOTION', advertisements can't outright lie about their product*, etc. To me, the simple answer is in the law - make it illegal to post AI generated content without it being declared as such.
Obviously there's a lot of minutae to legislate and edge cases to cover, but for the most of it if US social media companies were pressured and fined for allowing their users to post untagged AI content, they'd get on policing that themselves pretty quick.
At the very least that would set up AI safe zones, at least as long as AI content is discernable from 'organic' content.
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On May 01 2025 21:37 Belisarius wrote:The idea behind Drone's comment is to watermark the real images, not the fake ones. Which is harder, but if you get it to work, it would be much more powerful. I wish whoever works on that the best of luck in trying to create a watermark that an AI doesn't manage to fake in short order.
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On May 02 2025 00:02 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2025 23:19 Doublemint wrote:U.S.-citizen family 'traumatized' after ICE raided their Oklahoma home in search of someone elseFederal immigration agents searched the home of a family in Oklahoma and seized their belongings when conducting a search warrant issued for someone else.
The U.S. citizen mother of three daughters said the family has been "traumatized" since they were wrongly subjected to a search and seizure warrant that had the names of the residents who previously lived in her Oklahoma City home.
“We’re citizens. That’s what I kept saying. We’re citizens,” the woman told KFOR, an NBC-affiliated local TV news station. “They were very dismissive, very rough, very careless."
According to KFOR, which first reported the story, the immigration agents raided the home last week. They had a search warrant for the home, but the suspects listed on the warrant were not living in the house anymore.
About 20 armed agents busted through the door in the middle of the night, KFOR reported.
At first, the mother didn't know who they were. “It was dark. All the lights were off,” she said. "My initial thought was we were being robbed — that my daughters, being females, were being kidnapped."
The mother, whose identity was not revealed and who KFOR referred to by the pseudonym "Marisa" in its reporting, told the TV station the men who entered her home identified themselves as federal agents with the U.S. Marshals Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigations and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"The U.S. Marshal Service was not involved in the incident," Brady McCarron, deputy chief of public affairs at the United States Marshals Service, told NBC News in an email Tuesday.
'We didn't do anything'
A spokesperson for the FBI referred NBC News' request for comment to Homeland Security Investigations, an agency within the Department of Homeland Security that investigates criminal cases.
A senior DHS official confirmed to NBC News on Wednesday that ICE carried out "a court-authorized search warrant for a large-scale human smuggling investigation," involving eight Guatemalan nationals indicted in a federal case in the Northern District of Oklahoma.
“The search warrants included the location of an address where U.S. citizens recently moved. The previous residents were the intended targets," the official said.
...
The mother and her daughters wrongly targeted had recently moved from Maryland, settling in the rented home in Oklahoma City just a couple of weeks ago — hoping for a slower, more affordable lifestyle, KFOR reported. The father was set to join the family in their new home this weekend.
Though none of the family members were the subjects of the warrant, federal agents raided their home and confiscated their belongings. They took their phones, laptops and all their cash savings as "evidence," KFOR reported.
"I said you took my phone. We have no money. I just moved here,” the mother said. “I have to feed my children. I’m going to need gas money. I need to be able to get around. Like, how do you just leave me like this? Like an abandoned dog.”
“I kept pleading. I kept telling them we weren’t criminals. They were treating us like criminals. We were here by ourselves. We didn’t do anything," the mother added.
She said the agents ordered her and her daughters to step outside, even though it was raining and they barely were given time to put on clothes.
“They wanted me to change in front of all of them, in between all of them,” she said. “My husband has not even seen my daughter in her undergarments — her own dad, because it’s respectful. You have her out there, a minor, in her underwear,” the woman told KFOR.
“One of them said, ‘I know it was a little rough this morning,’” she said. “It was so denigrating. That you do all of this to a family, to women, your fellow citizens. And it was a little rough? You literally traumatized me and my daughters for life. We’re going to have to go get help or get over this somehow.”
Before the agents left, the mother asked when could the family get their belongings back and they said it could be days or even months, KFOR reported.
DHS did not comment on how the mother described and characterized the actions of the agents. nothing to see here. just another happy little accident during the best 100 days of any presidency ever. golden era guys, why don't you smile? and say thank you to dear leader. The government should go through the full process of a complete investigation with getting warrants to respect due process and the rights of everyone involved. However, if that process takes so long that the criminals who were originally living in the house moved out resulting in the victimization of the innocent people who took their place, that's also the President's fault.
How complete an investigation is it if you fucked up who lives in the house?
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United States42668 Posts
On May 02 2025 00:02 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2025 23:19 Doublemint wrote:U.S.-citizen family 'traumatized' after ICE raided their Oklahoma home in search of someone elseFederal immigration agents searched the home of a family in Oklahoma and seized their belongings when conducting a search warrant issued for someone else.
The U.S. citizen mother of three daughters said the family has been "traumatized" since they were wrongly subjected to a search and seizure warrant that had the names of the residents who previously lived in her Oklahoma City home.
“We’re citizens. That’s what I kept saying. We’re citizens,” the woman told KFOR, an NBC-affiliated local TV news station. “They were very dismissive, very rough, very careless."
According to KFOR, which first reported the story, the immigration agents raided the home last week. They had a search warrant for the home, but the suspects listed on the warrant were not living in the house anymore.
About 20 armed agents busted through the door in the middle of the night, KFOR reported.
At first, the mother didn't know who they were. “It was dark. All the lights were off,” she said. "My initial thought was we were being robbed — that my daughters, being females, were being kidnapped."
The mother, whose identity was not revealed and who KFOR referred to by the pseudonym "Marisa" in its reporting, told the TV station the men who entered her home identified themselves as federal agents with the U.S. Marshals Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigations and Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"The U.S. Marshal Service was not involved in the incident," Brady McCarron, deputy chief of public affairs at the United States Marshals Service, told NBC News in an email Tuesday.
'We didn't do anything'
A spokesperson for the FBI referred NBC News' request for comment to Homeland Security Investigations, an agency within the Department of Homeland Security that investigates criminal cases.
A senior DHS official confirmed to NBC News on Wednesday that ICE carried out "a court-authorized search warrant for a large-scale human smuggling investigation," involving eight Guatemalan nationals indicted in a federal case in the Northern District of Oklahoma.
“The search warrants included the location of an address where U.S. citizens recently moved. The previous residents were the intended targets," the official said.
...
The mother and her daughters wrongly targeted had recently moved from Maryland, settling in the rented home in Oklahoma City just a couple of weeks ago — hoping for a slower, more affordable lifestyle, KFOR reported. The father was set to join the family in their new home this weekend.
Though none of the family members were the subjects of the warrant, federal agents raided their home and confiscated their belongings. They took their phones, laptops and all their cash savings as "evidence," KFOR reported.
"I said you took my phone. We have no money. I just moved here,” the mother said. “I have to feed my children. I’m going to need gas money. I need to be able to get around. Like, how do you just leave me like this? Like an abandoned dog.”
“I kept pleading. I kept telling them we weren’t criminals. They were treating us like criminals. We were here by ourselves. We didn’t do anything," the mother added.
She said the agents ordered her and her daughters to step outside, even though it was raining and they barely were given time to put on clothes.
“They wanted me to change in front of all of them, in between all of them,” she said. “My husband has not even seen my daughter in her undergarments — her own dad, because it’s respectful. You have her out there, a minor, in her underwear,” the woman told KFOR.
“One of them said, ‘I know it was a little rough this morning,’” she said. “It was so denigrating. That you do all of this to a family, to women, your fellow citizens. And it was a little rough? You literally traumatized me and my daughters for life. We’re going to have to go get help or get over this somehow.”
Before the agents left, the mother asked when could the family get their belongings back and they said it could be days or even months, KFOR reported.
DHS did not comment on how the mother described and characterized the actions of the agents. nothing to see here. just another happy little accident during the best 100 days of any presidency ever. golden era guys, why don't you smile? and say thank you to dear leader. The government should go through the full process of a complete investigation with getting warrants to respect due process and the rights of everyone involved. However, if that process takes so long that the criminals who were originally living in the house moved out resulting in the victimization of the innocent people who took their place, that's also the President's fault.
Agreed, they're responsible for designing the process and ensuring that the process they design has sufficient resources to work as intended. The buck stops with them. They can't just say "we're not competent enough to follow the constitution so we shouldn't have to".
Nice to see you on the side of civil liberties and the constitution for once.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Visual_glossary_of_C2PA_metadata.png)
