EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4948
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4691 Posts
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KwarK
United States42206 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21491 Posts
On April 29 2025 23:27 Uldridge wrote: Trump has been like this his entire life, that we know of. Sure he is surrounded by other evil people who feed him evil things to do but lets not pretend Trump is largely doing what he would want to do without them anyway.Trump isn't the evil guy. Vance, Hegseth en Lutnick (and Bannon) are very much the evil guys though. Trump is just the useful idiot. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4691 Posts
You could make the argument he's useful evil idiot and I could live with that. I just don't think it can really compare with people like Bannon for example. But now we're making gossip tier lists of despicable people so please let's move on lol. | ||
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KwarK
United States42206 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22950 Posts
On April 29 2025 23:27 Uldridge wrote: Trump isn't the evil guy. Vance, Hegseth en Lutnick (and Bannon) are very much the evil guys though. Trump is just the useful idiot. Trump's "evil" enough, but if it isn't/wasn't Trump, there would be another. The fixation on Trump (and insulting me personally) instead of the systemic issues helps the fascists or "evil guys". Using the military to police your citizens is bad when Democrats do it and when Republicans want to, the problems are systemic. a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil. — John AdamsConstitution is clearly due for a patch making it multi-party (among other things). A patch that would not just deal with a litany of obvious problems we have today, but also remain faithful to the founders intentions, for whatever that's worth. But we can't have that because of the Hamster Wheel. 1. There's a problem 2. Politicians won't fix it 3. Need to replace the politicians with ones that will 4. Can't replace the politicians because of how the system works 5. Need to fix the system 6. Politicians won't fix it (because it benefits them) 7. Repeat ad nauseam. So instead everyone just mocks and gawks people on their right while lashing out emotionally at me on their left for pointing out that they know better. They know they are wrong for choosing to do this petulant mean girling instead of working on the "only way that American system recovers from Trump before a full on civilizational collapse". For which I challenge anyone to show me a better electoral plan than the one I've already offered. But a better/improved plan isn't what's coming. Just more emotional lashing out, mean girling, and the everpresent mocking and gawking at people to their right. Just as the fascists want it. + Show Spoiler + Credit to those that have at least contributed to the General Strike effort that TL posters could support. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4691 Posts
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misirlou
Portugal3236 Posts
On April 29 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote: I think he is genuinely just a contrarian who has a desperate need to feel and be special, that's just my opinion based on the last 30ish pages of this and other threads since I started paying attention and participating, you have been exposed to his slop for far longer. I just find it supremely ironic that this is the person who is trying to present himself as "solutions guy" when the only way that American system recovers from Trump before a full on civilizational collapse is by Democrats wrestling power away from him and his Republican cult, and this guy spends all of his time bloviating about and attacking the only people who have any chance to reverse these fascistic tendencies. So, he's either extremely stupid or an useful idiot for people who want to see America destroy himself, based on his replies in the Russia / Ukraine thread I'm beginning to lean towards the latter. Of course, the third option is that he is isolated enough and doesn't care about any of this and is just trolling and intellectually masturbating because he's obviously incredibly bored. A fourth option is that you're the "useful idiots" supporting the billionaire control of the US perpetrated (with different degrees and measures) by both parties. Is a christofascist gov worse than a oligarchy? Sure. But they're still both bad. But hey, let the "non trumper republicans" in the forum reaffirm you otherwise. We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. ... Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. ... We choose to <abandon the 2party system> in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too. Could've been a speech about political reform instead of the apolo missions. Proper eloquence is timeless. Let the rallying cries of past progress energize you to the current struggles. My offtopic about my voting stance on portuguese political parties: + Show Spoiler + If the far-right gains more power in portugal I'd be as much as "problem" as you see GH being in US pol. I consider myself a social democrat. The last time I voted for either the "social democrats"(center right) or "socialists" (center left) I was about 20. Despite their on paper policies more or less agreeing with things I stand for, I voted on alt-left parties and I moved from small to smaller parties due to my "moral purity". I will not vote for a party that disrupted a pedophilia investigation into party members. I will not vote for a party that has enabled corrupt politicians (found and convicted in court of law). I will not vote for a party whose leader personally benefited from the struggles they're fighting for (i.e. undisclosed ties to real estate businesses that perpetuate the housing crisis [a small business that is a drop of water in the bucket, but resulting in economic gains nonetheless]). So right now I'm voting for a party that has 4 seats in parliament (out of 230), no chances of "winning", but atleast I feel I have a voice as close to mine in parliament. And if I loose my country by a single vote to a loud corrupt conman (the leader of our alt-right) that convinced enough idiots that he has the solutions (he doesn't), I'm not blaming myself for not voting on a center party, I'm blaming the millions that got conned. There's 2 parties I'll happily vote for in portugal right now, Livre and PAN. Livre had a disastrous start to their parliamentary presence and instead of protecting their seat, they swiftly got rid of it. I can accept mistakes as long as they are properly addressed and corrected, instead of accepted/perpetuated to hold on to power. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8414 Posts
On April 29 2025 20:56 oBlade wrote: I let my breath out in 2021 after Biden was inaugurated after Trump deported millions of people during his term making my statement pretty easy to digest.[1] Are you in favor of deporting illegal immigrants with due process, or do you think due process is a procedural shield that exists to stop people from ever being deported?[2] [1]going by feelings I see. I also felt better Biden got eventually inaugurated after some loon and his supporters - based on a lie - tried to overturn an election and the peaceful transfer of power. of the country leading the western alliance. at least back then, now I am not alone in not being that confident anymore with the leading part. [2]I am seeing the Trump admin wanting to achieve a policy goal. and failing on procedural hurdles. and their own ineptitude for this whole governing a country thing. which get called out repeatedly. maybe if the Supreme Court starts shutting them down you might be ready to listen. there are a whole lotta cases heading their way. /bonus: Obama vs Trump deportations | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia389 Posts
Throwing all of these people under the bus so you can jerk yourselves off about how "you see through" the only people who can do something to help them not get ran over doesn't make you smart or sophisticated, it makes you selfish and smug. I can guarantee you that normal Russians would kill for "genocide Joe" or "deporter in chief Obama", unfortunately, that's not happening for them because people like you perpetuated the "they are all the same" bullshit in their country for a century, so their children now get blown up by FPV drones on daily bases or get thrown in jails for calling the war a war. Noticing this and calling it out doesn't make me emotional and it's not me lashing out, as much as it hurts your feelings because deep down you know you are full of shit. | ||
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KwarK
United States42206 Posts
On April 30 2025 00:01 GreenHorizons wrote: Trump's "evil" enough, but if it isn't/wasn't Trump, there would be another. The fixation on Trump (and insulting me personally) instead of the systemic issues helps the fascists or "evil guys". Using the military to police your citizens is bad when Democrats do it and when Republicans want to, the problems are systemic. — John Adams Constitution is clearly due for a patch making it multi-party (among other things). A patch that would not just deal with a litany of obvious problems we have today, but also remain faithful to the founders intentions, for whatever that's worth. But we can't have that because of the Hamster Wheel. 1. There's a problem 2. Politicians won't fix it 3. Need to replace the politicians with ones that will 4. Can't replace the politicians because of how the system works 5. Need to fix the system 6. Politicians won't fix it (because it benefits them) 7. Repeat ad nauseam. So instead everyone just mocks and gawks people on their right while lashing out emotionally at me on their left for pointing out that they know better. They know they are wrong for choosing to do this petulant mean girling instead of working on the "only way that American system recovers from Trump before a full on civilizational collapse". For which I challenge anyone to show me a better electoral plan than the one I've already offered. But a better/improved plan isn't what's coming. Just more emotional lashing out, mean girling, and the everpresent mocking and gawking at people to their right. Just as the fascists want it. + Show Spoiler + Credit to those that have at least contributed to the General Strike effort that TL posters could support. Yes, you've once again reached the conclusion that everyone else already knew. The political system is dysfunctional and incapable of fixing itself. No party in a two party system is going to push for the end of the two party system which means it isn't going anywhere. We all know this. The fundamental problem is not something that you alone understand and need to teach the rest of us. You are not ahead of us, you are behind us. We all know the problem, have considered the problem, have considered the causes of the problem, and possible solutions to the problem. We have all reached the conclusion that these foundational problems are baked into the institutions and structure of our civilization and so they can only be changed through a revolution that rewrites the rules of society from a blank slate. We can't relay the foundations of the house from the inside. We all know this. Where you lose us all is the exact same things it has always been. 1. How will you get Americans, who are an extremely conservative group of people, to support this revolution? We saw a fair few general strikes in the UK in the last hundred years and they were always built on the existing frameworks of organized labour alliances. The dock workers and the coal miners and the teamsters working together in a highly organized highly disciplined bloc. The US simply doesn't have that framework to build on and working class Americans, as a rule, are more conservative than the average American. They don't identify as working class, they're highly politicized by a racial, religious, and cultural identify bloc. 2. How will the revolution get to a state of affairs that is better than the present day? Tearing up the rules is very effective at getting rid of the current rules but offers absolutely no guarantees about what the new rules are going to look like. And the overlap between people who are good at revolutions and people who are good at establishing tyrannical dictatorships has historically been a circle. We're stuck on those issues while you're in the distant rear view mirror going "hey guys I think the two party system might have some flaws we need to address". In my view the only thing that is going to radicalize the American public sufficiently is for things to get worse for the average American. Much worse. But before they turn to revolution they're going to start engaging in pogroms because they're extremely susceptible to hate propaganda. I don't have much hope. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3236 Posts
I can guarantee you that normal Russians would kill for "genocide Joe" or "deporter in chief Obama", unfortunately, that's not happening for them because people like you perpetuated the "they are all the same" bullshit in their country for a century, Russia federation is 35ish years old. About 100yo if you add USSR but idk what "they are all the same" bullshit looked like back then. I can't make heads or tails out of this accusation. We all know this. The fundamental problem is not something that you alone understand and need to teach the rest of us. You are not ahead of us, you are behind us. mhm. GH is on denial while everyone else has already accepted. Ya'll did a good job mourning for America. the overlap between people who are good at revolutions and people who are good at establishing tyrannical dictatorships has historically been a circle. MLK Jr. Mahatma Gandhi Nelson Mandela Salgueiro Maia | ||
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oBlade
United States5400 Posts
On April 30 2025 00:29 Doublemint wrote: [1]going by feelings I see. I also felt better Biden got eventually inaugurated after some loon and his supporters - based on a lie - tried to overturn an election and the peaceful transfer of power. of the country leading the western alliance. at least back then, now I am not alone in not being that confident anymore with the leading part. Must have really stung when he won the above-board way again then. The reason the US is still the leader is bored first worlders don't use the number of people living in other countries without permission as the premise of an international political football game that has no affect on their lives directly. But they do, for some reason, think it's a sacrosanct right when it comes to the US. On April 30 2025 00:29 Doublemint wrote: [2]I am seeing the Trump admin wanting to achieve a policy goal. and failing on procedural hurdles. and their own ineptitude for this whole governing a country thing. which get called out repeatedly. maybe if the Supreme Court starts shutting them down you might be ready to listen. there are a whole lotta cases heading their way. You don't have an actual policy view of your own. Okay. Probably because it's not your country. What hurdles do you see? Most of the problems I see are physical and political: Sanctuary municipalities not helping/cooperating with enforcement, which would allow greater and faster progress; limited numbers of immigration judges, which is somewhat mitigated by the fact that immigration judges aren't going to be bogged down by fake asylum seekers being trafficked across the border now as border numbers have plummeted; and the limits and challenges of basic logistics which is why for example DOD assets like military planes are involved now. Trump wants to enforce laws on the books that allow the deportation of people with no right to be in the country he's president of, but he's a big fat failure because... according to judges they have to have the chance for habeas corpus petitions? That's your standard for he's failing? The "due process" is not like a theoretical pipe dream ideal of how an extreme leftist assumes deportations should work in Fantasyland. The due process is what you can see when you open a law book and it explains what happens. Here's things you aren't entitled to for civil immigration violations: 1) Jury trial 2) Free counsel 3) Reasonable doubt standard 4) Infinite appeals in expedited cases (e.g. a sworn federal officer catches you swimming the Rio Grande, saves you from exposure, and puts you on the fast track back out) Know why this is all true? Because only certain acts, like border hopping, are criminal acts. Know the punishments for criminal acts? Fines and prison. Know what the opposite of what you want to do with someone who is in your country illegally is? Keep them in a prison in your country even longer. Most of what the administration is doing is normal. Invocation of the Alien Enemies Act mainly, and a couple other things, are more novel, but basically the administration is doing what any government is supposed to do on any normal day. It's just people have gotten used to the utter lawlessness of Mayorkas for so long that any shift back to normality is perceived as an extreme move to the right. What is the purpose of this bonus? This is the second time you've posted the a random Google result for "actually Blumpf didn't deport that many people." Is this to explain to the thread why you support Trump over Obama? | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany811 Posts
UPS is about to lay off 20,000 workers - expecting low demand from Amazon. FedEx pilots report their whole flying shedule for june has been pulled. Other freight pilots report that cargo planes to the US are running at less then 50% capacity (gross starting weight). I guess Trump is fighting climate change by ruining the US economy and consumption. On April 29 2025 23:27 Uldridge wrote: Trump isn't the evil guy. Vance, Hegseth en Lutnick (and Bannon) are very much the evil guys though. Trump is just the useful idiot. He is a rapist billionaire who defrauded businesspartners and is now openly corrupt. His net worth has doubled since he won the election, because he is bribed in Cryptocoin, and suddenly every major tech company has either "lost" a lawsuit against him and compensated him with tens of millions.. or bought the "Trump" name rights for documentations. He also dodged the payments for his past crimes so far. | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany811 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9451 Posts
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KwarK
United States42206 Posts
Tackling the problem of resource allocation is literally why we do capitalism. It makes all of us work together to assign values to intangibles and optimize by voting with our choices. The Trumpism pivot to a centrally planned economy has costs that are literally immeasurable. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8414 Posts
On April 30 2025 01:56 oBlade wrote: Must have really stung when he won the above-board way again then. The reason the US is still the leader is bored first worlders don't use the number of people living in other countries without permission as the premise of an international political football game that has no affect on their lives directly. But they do, for some reason, think it's a sacrosanct right when it comes to the US. You don't have an actual policy view of your own. Okay. Probably because it's not your country. What hurdles do you see? Most of the problems I see are physical and political: Sanctuary municipalities not helping/cooperating with enforcement, which would allow greater and faster progress; limited numbers of immigration judges, which is somewhat mitigated by the fact that immigration judges aren't going to be bogged down by fake asylum seekers being trafficked across the border now as border numbers have plummeted; and the limits and challenges of basic logistics which is why for example DOD assets like military planes are involved now. Trump wants to enforce laws on the books that allow the deportation of people with no right to be in the country he's president of, but he's a big fat failure because... according to judges they have to have the chance for habeas corpus petitions? That's your standard for he's failing? The "due process" is not like a theoretical pipe dream ideal of how an extreme leftist assumes deportations should work in Fantasyland. The due process is what you can see when you open a law book and it explains what happens. Here's things you aren't entitled to for civil immigration violations: 1) Jury trial 2) Free counsel 3) Reasonable doubt standard 4) Infinite appeals in expedited cases (e.g. a sworn federal officer catches you swimming the Rio Grande, saves you from exposure, and puts you on the fast track back out) Know why this is all true? Because only certain acts, like border hopping, are criminal acts. Know the punishments for criminal acts? Fines and prison. Know what the opposite of what you want to do with someone who is in your country illegally is? Keep them in a prison in your country even longer. Most of what the administration is doing is normal. Invocation of the Alien Enemies Act mainly, and a couple other things, are more novel, but basically the administration is doing what any government is supposed to do on any normal day. It's just people have gotten used to the utter lawlessness of Mayorkas for so long that any shift back to normality is perceived as an extreme move to the right. What is the purpose of this bonus? This is the second time you've posted the a random Google result for "actually Blumpf didn't deport that many people." Is this to explain to the thread why you support Trump over Obama? appreciate the long post I guess. though the problem I see is yes resources - and that starts with the way people are processed at the border and then their further integration into society which if successful - they go to school, get a job pay taxes... what have you... should be rewarded with a clear perspective of a path to citizenship. if however they are indeed - confirmed and not just "has a tattoo" or "wears hoodies" - criminals/gang members, they might become focus of deportation. even though come to think of it I am not sure that is the way to go either. if they commit a crime, they go through the criminal justice system - say convicted of murder. case closed. why not keep them in jail? I see further potential for them to do something stupid/heinous. you ship them to wherever by plane and then what? they are for a time another countries problem. they came into your country illegally/not by the rules once, don't you think they will try and do it again? is it not better to have them on the books and booked where you are in control? the god damn richest country on the planet? I see the desire to get rid of them - but deporting so many people costs money too. using military planes is rather expensive as well... it would be quite the FOIA request to check the costs of those deportations vs keeping them locked up. I posted the Obama vs Trump stats because it just fits exactly the picture of Trump currently. overpromise and underdeliver. and in the meantime lining his pockets with tax dollars. or using his influence to make a quick buck. if you read the first link, you might have seen the connection. random google link sure  | ||
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Billyboy
615 Posts
On April 30 2025 02:25 Jockmcplop wrote: So are we to infer that the pro-American thing to do is to hide the cost of the tariffs from the American public? You are just listening the MSM, in reality other countries are paying the costs and the rising costs in America are because of the immigrants and radical leftists. Just imagine how high the costs would be without the tariffs. | ||
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Vivax
21937 Posts
As an European analogy I‘m thinking of the flood of food in out supermarkets that an entire community could never buy out. Most of it is either thrown away or dumped to charities in the best case. But it keeps the already subsidized farmers alive. Trump hopes to subsidize the US industry but it cannot work without inflation. That‘s why he introduces tariffs and pesters Powell about lower rates. Also because he needs the stock market to soar so he looks better. My guess. | ||
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