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On February 22 2025 03:31 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 02:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 22 2025 01:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 21 2025 22:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 21 2025 22:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 21 2025 21:56 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 21 2025 18:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Steve Bannon just gave a Nazi salute during a CPAC speech, after saying that Trump should be president during the 2028 term too. Is it more or less plausibly deniable than Musk's? My initial reaction was that it was weaker than Musk's, but without the "my heart goes out to you" cover, it feels a bit more naked even if less enthusiastic. Ezra Klein recently opened his show by pointing out he talked to a bunch of Democrats about what they would be doing if they had won control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. They all told him they didn't know. If people are going to insist on relying on Democrats, they are going to need to demand better/more of them. Democrats (ultimately capitalists generally too, but they are freebasing with Trump/Musk right now) need a Project 2026/New Deal to rally around. Obviously my version would be much further left than anything they'd come up with, but every hour they go without having this as THE "other thing to talk about" besides whatever Trump and his cronies are breaking, is unforgivable political malpractice. Less enthusiastic than Musk's two Nazi salutes, definitely. Doesn't make it any less plausible imo though; they both know what they're signaling. Feel like Bannon's lack of enthusiasm was meant for the "see they call everyone a Nazi!" troll but just read as a sign of weakness to me. Means there's still time to do something. I think that should be socialist in nature. You have inexplicably and steadfastly refused to join those efforts afaict. Opting instead to echo JO's call for contacting politicians ( I did this btw, don't know if you tried, but pretty sure it just went to a "not my constituent" Voicemail purgatory?) and threats of primaries. I'd like this to be reciprocal, but I'll make the first steps regardless. I'll try make a good faith effort to post/act as a lib/Dem/ilk in the context of this thread like I've requested of you and others to do as socialists in my blog. This is your (and the rest of the libs/Dems/ilk) chance to point me in the direction you prefer. You could also all demonstrate your own capacity to act in good faith reciprocity to at least seriously consider the alternatives on the table for organizing against the rising tide of fascism in the US and beyond. I did read your socialist blog post, and I do read the discussion that takes place there. I've watched the videos you've recommended (not just the ones in your blog, but other ones you've posted here, in the past). I personally don't think that promoting socialism is a viable way to address Trump's fascism, as labeling anyone as Socialist/Communist immediately scares away half of the population (not saying it's justified). I think that economic philosophy labels like socialism and capitalism are generally going to work in favor of the latter when it comes to Americans' feelings, and the best move would be to gradually push for smaller socialized policies which could accumulate over time into that socialist label, as opposed to coming out of the gate with a push for capital-S Socialism. I think it'd be easier to get people to agree that they like the sound of [socialist policy 1] and [socialist policy 2] and [socialist policy 3] without them needing to identify as Socialists. Taboo, and all that crap. I recognize and appreciate your skepticism, as I trust you do mine. You know, if you talk to me over in my blog, I could probably work with you to find socialists that largely share your perspective (probably more than Democrats) and we could still work together from that angle? That said, I'm pretty confident you and LibHorizons are going to get along. LibHorizons: I'm with you on messaging, use what works. That simple. I think what Sen. Chris Murphy is saying here (echoing 2016 Bernie really) is how you breakthrough to everyday Americans across the political spectrum. Starts to show that you understand what went wrong, and you're going to do something about it. + Show Spoiler + Democrats and Republicans gave into this idea. That was really in vogue, about 20 years ago, that markets could fix everything right? That if you sort of properly tweak markets, ultimately those markets will be able to deliver happiness. And more than just markets, global markets. Jobs will be moved overseas, but the'll be replaced by cheaper goods and different, better jobs that will eventually raise the standard of living. Democrats bought into that, Republicans bought into it. It was a fucking lie! It was a fucking lie that was perpetrated on us by these masters of the global economy, the only people who really benefited from being able to move capital seamlessly and goods country to country.
We told Americans that if they just bought stuff, if they just were good consumers, if they got a little but higher income, if they got on that career ladder, ultimately, you know, that was meaning, that was purpose, that was fulfilment. It never, ever has been.
We made an enormous mistake believing in what I guess is referred to as the neoliberal economic order, markets will cure everything, and we're paying a huge price for that now. LibHorizons: Don't agree with everything he said in the interview, but that's the kind of message (tuned differently for different audiences) I think they need to be bringing to as many people as they can as soon as possible en masse. It is the very minimum we need from them to energize people to take the various actions we'll need them to over the coming days, months, and years. On February 22 2025 01:14 Sadist wrote:
Na i think it would be different because it would impact them personally. Its easy to be against all these things when you dont use them. LibHorizons: I think it is more likely government funds are redirected to private/religious services (in this case delivery/distribution) to subsidize them based on algorithms meant to maximize support for a sort of vague "white(club) Christian Nationalism" complementing a growing Neo-feudalism+ Show Spoiler +...As the distribution of political power shifted in the 1970s and 1980s, the financial industry began reprivatizing systems of law and finance. They invented new strategies of financial speculation to which regulators gave their blessing. Leverage buyout artists began acquiring entire companies using almost none of their own money, with the target company’s stock as collateral. In the new, pro-market environment, regulators concluded that this was legal.
The LBO business mutated into private equity, in which trillions of dollars of transactions were outside the system of securities regulation on the premise that these were not public offerings of shares. What had been a very small loophole in the structure of New Deal securities law metastasized into a largely unregulated multitrillion-dollar industry. Complex layers of derivatives securities were invented, in which immense and largely hidden multiples of leverage were possible. When some regulators expressed an interest in taking a closer look, a Congress newly beholden to the financial industry acted in 2000 to expressly prohibit regulation of derivatives, either as insurance, securities, or as gambling.
In the same period, public agencies delegated regulation to regulated industries via more than a dozen industry-controlled entities known as self-regulatory organizations (SROS). The original self-regulatory organization was the New York Stock Exchange, created in 1792. Prior to the New Deal, the Stock Exchange functioned as a private club, and its failure to enforce transparent and fair dealing had vast consequences for the public well-being when markets periodically crashed.
From the inception of securities regulation in 1933, there was bitter contention over how much enforcement would be the direct province of the new sec and how much would be delegated to the privately operated stock exchange. It is a testament to the residual power of capital that even at the nadir of its disgrace, the New York Stock Exchange won many of these initial skirmishes, setting an unfortunate pattern to be exploited once FDR was gone. Against the wishes of the sec’s original architects, the stock exchange was permitted to supervise many of its own activities with the sec relegated to watchdog, supervising at one remove. In 1939, the sec allowed the first explicitly recognized SRO, the National Association of Securities Dealers, to govern the system of over-the-counter (off-exchange) stock trades. This was just the beginning of a vast reversion.
After Wall Street invented financial derivatives in the 1980s, the whole field of derivatives creation and trading came to be governed by rules established by the industry trade association, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA). At its simplest level, a financial derivative is analogous to an insurance policy against a bond or other security failing to pay back interest or principal. But ISDA, not a government agency, gets to decide how derivatives work and under what circumstances that obligation must be paid. This is neo-feudalism, par excellence. The democratic state plays no role whatever, except to bless the privatized realm of law.
In the area of accounting standards, the sec expressly delegated monitoring and enforcement to the industry trade association, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA). When self-regulation failed and accounting frauds led to the Enron scandal and kindred abuses, Congress restored some direct regulatory standards via the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002. However, that same legislation created a new body, the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board (PCAOB), that enabled industry self-regulation to persist in a different form. PCAOB was created as a dot-org, not a government entity. Its president is paid over $670,000 a year. It is dominated by the Big Four accounting firms. The sec delegated a great deal of regulatory enforcement to it, as well as to another industry private association, FINRA, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (which used to go under its original and more accurate name, the National Association of Securities Dealers). By definition, the self-interest of securities dealers is not identical to that of the investing public.
SIFMA, the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, is a lobbying and trade association. But with the approval of the government, SIFMA also sets the regulatory standards for repos (overnight loans) and money-market and securities lending transactions through its “master templates.” There are similar industry groups that “regulate” the terms of municipal bond underwriting and sales (the Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board); the terms for creation and trading of futures (the National Futures Association); as well as the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB).
All of these industry self-regulatory bodies have their own systems of jurisprudence, far less transparent or committed to the public interest than the direct public regulation of the New Deal schema. Roosevelt’s original alphabet soup of new public agencies has mutated into a toxic stew of self-regulatory and self-interested organizations. It is one giant conflict of interest. I somewhat agree with a lot of what Murphy said in that interview you previously linked, although I somewhat disagree with some of his conclusions, and cheers for the link. MAGA isn’t some wholesale rejection of neo-liberalism, economically it is the ‘market with tweaks’ of which he speaks. Or in a sense it isn’t that both left and right are battling to establish some new path with the old orthodoxy thrown out. It’s the right being largely happy with it, with a few tweaks, the left (rightly IMO) dissatisfied with it, and a big swathe of the centre happy enough with it. So yeah a pivot will enthuse some people, I’m just not sure it defuses many others so to speak. Now this doesn’t mean I don’t think the pivot is worthwhile doing, to the contrary for many reasons.
LibHorizons: Yeah, there's certainly room for improvement.
The point isn't really to convince MAGA of anything. It's to speak to the millions of voters Democrats lost between 2020 and 2024, as well as the 10's of millions of non-voters and third party voters that generally agree with Democrats like Bernie's social democratic rhetoric.
That said, Murphy's (2016 Bernie's) points about corruption, oligarchy, campaign finance, etc are things that also resonate with MAGA voters (and probably will more if they feel like that corruption screwed them over in any way). Even more so if you go after a sacred cow like Pelosi for insider trading and remove someone like Adams for clear quid pro quo.
It will be nearly impossible to reach anyone but the most already loyal if they try to continue to let stuff like that fester.
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On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face.
I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff.
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On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face.
The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
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On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
Blaming the Democrats for Elon Musk lying about 150-year-olds receiving money? Even Fox called out Musk:
"Musk, who has been tasked with leading DOGE as a special government employee, spoke to reporters on Tuesday from the Oval Office of the White House with President Donald Trump and said DOGE found payments going to beneficiaries listed as being around the age of 150, though he didn't go into detail about the claims." https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/musk-claims-150-year-olds-receiving-social-security-benefits
You don't have to attempt to defend every stupid lie that Musk and Trump create, or attempt to spin it so that it's other people's fault that they're full of shit.
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On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
They've already proven themselves incapable of reading information from the database properly once, I'm not going to trust them to do it again a second time.
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On February 22 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence. Blaming the Democrats for Elon Musk lying about 150-year-olds receiving money? Even Fox called out Musk: "Musk, who has been tasked with leading DOGE as a special government employee, spoke to reporters on Tuesday from the Oval Office of the White House with President Donald Trump and said DOGE found payments going to beneficiaries listed as being around the age of 150, though he didn't go into detail about the claims." https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/musk-claims-150-year-olds-receiving-social-security-benefits You don't have to attempt to defend every stupid lie that Musk and Trump create, or attempt to spin it so that it's other people's fault that they're full of shit.
It’s pure cuck behaviour and it’s hilarious that these people don’t see it that way. At least some people just admit they love the destruction of the American government and they don’t really care how they get there. Musk dickriders will do everything in their power to not admit that the man is an inept idiot despite years of proof because it would destroy the idea of a capitalist meritocracy, even his autobiography shows him as one if readers actually spent one minute to think about the actions described by Walter Issacson.
When Musk tried to explain away his paid Path for Exile 2 account away, his more ardent fans bought his claim that what he was doing was normal and that every top player does the same thing as he does. Anyone with a brain would know 1) that isn’t remotely true because we have physical streaming proof of most of the top players and 2) he is still inept at the game so he’s still stealing the achievements of his boosters but apparently to these fans you can defend everything with “it’s just an opinion bro! there is no right or wrong, we can agree to disagree!”. There is no talking to these type of people because they refuse to call a spade a spade because it would require changing their worldview.
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Northern Ireland23717 Posts
On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
I mean there’s about 20 front page articles on search engines for ‘Doge COBOL’ if you wanna have a look.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/if-cobol-is-so-problematic-why-does-the-us-government-still-use-it/
IIRC initial implementations back in ye olden days, plus migrations and laziness in languages such as COBOL was part of what had people shitting themselves over the ‘Y2K problem’
As I’ve said innumerable times, whatever talents Musk may possess he exposes a complete tendency to talk utter bollocks about all things programming and programming-adjacent. Which is very, very apparent to anyone with experience there, or even hobbyists and ‘power users’
Another more between the lines read that IMO he’s talking bollocks is he’s not showing off how smart he is on Twitter or wherever on this topic. Which he has a tendency to love doing, and indeed is exactly why people who know their shit in these spheres think he’s full of shit.
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Northern Ireland23717 Posts
On February 22 2025 06:58 Hat Trick of Today wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence. Blaming the Democrats for Elon Musk lying about 150-year-olds receiving money? Even Fox called out Musk: "Musk, who has been tasked with leading DOGE as a special government employee, spoke to reporters on Tuesday from the Oval Office of the White House with President Donald Trump and said DOGE found payments going to beneficiaries listed as being around the age of 150, though he didn't go into detail about the claims." https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/musk-claims-150-year-olds-receiving-social-security-benefits You don't have to attempt to defend every stupid lie that Musk and Trump create, or attempt to spin it so that it's other people's fault that they're full of shit. It’s pure cuck behaviour and it’s hilarious that these people don’t see it that way. At least some people just admit they love the destruction of the American government and they don’t really care how they get there. Musk dickriders will do everything in their power to not admit that the man is an inept idiot despite years of proof because it would destroy the idea of a capitalist meritocracy, even his autobiography shows him as one if readers actually spent one minute to think about the actions described by Walter Issacson. When Musk tried to explain away his paid Path for Exile 2 account away, his more ardent fans bought his claim that what he was doing was normal and that every top player does the same thing as he does. Anyone with a brain would know 1) that isn’t remotely true because we have physical streaming proof of most of the top players and 2) he is still inept at the game so he’s still stealing the achievements of his boosters but apparently to these fans you can defend everything with “it’s just an opinion bro! there is no right or wrong, we can agree to disagree!”. There is no talking to these type of people because they refuse to call a spade a spade because it would require changing their worldview.
That feels insulting to cucks, at least their partner and their partner’s partner are having a good time!
It’s utterly pathetic, it really is. I don’t think any human merits this kind of fawning anyway, but of all people fucking Musk and Trump lmao?
I remember his deranged, strange fans savaging some engineer for correcting Musk on something, the embarrassing part was you could check yourself in any decent web browser and Musk was 100% wrong. And if ya didn’t know how you coulda just followed the 2-3 steps people provided for just that purpose.
Jesus funking Christ
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On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff.
And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves.
I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take.
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Northern Ireland23717 Posts
On February 22 2025 05:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 03:31 WombaT wrote:On February 22 2025 02:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 22 2025 01:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 21 2025 22:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 21 2025 22:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 21 2025 21:56 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 21 2025 18:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Steve Bannon just gave a Nazi salute during a CPAC speech, after saying that Trump should be president during the 2028 term too. Is it more or less plausibly deniable than Musk's? My initial reaction was that it was weaker than Musk's, but without the "my heart goes out to you" cover, it feels a bit more naked even if less enthusiastic. Ezra Klein recently opened his show by pointing out he talked to a bunch of Democrats about what they would be doing if they had won control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. They all told him they didn't know. If people are going to insist on relying on Democrats, they are going to need to demand better/more of them. Democrats (ultimately capitalists generally too, but they are freebasing with Trump/Musk right now) need a Project 2026/New Deal to rally around. Obviously my version would be much further left than anything they'd come up with, but every hour they go without having this as THE "other thing to talk about" besides whatever Trump and his cronies are breaking, is unforgivable political malpractice. Less enthusiastic than Musk's two Nazi salutes, definitely. Doesn't make it any less plausible imo though; they both know what they're signaling. Feel like Bannon's lack of enthusiasm was meant for the "see they call everyone a Nazi!" troll but just read as a sign of weakness to me. Means there's still time to do something. I think that should be socialist in nature. You have inexplicably and steadfastly refused to join those efforts afaict. Opting instead to echo JO's call for contacting politicians ( I did this btw, don't know if you tried, but pretty sure it just went to a "not my constituent" Voicemail purgatory?) and threats of primaries. I'd like this to be reciprocal, but I'll make the first steps regardless. I'll try make a good faith effort to post/act as a lib/Dem/ilk in the context of this thread like I've requested of you and others to do as socialists in my blog. This is your (and the rest of the libs/Dems/ilk) chance to point me in the direction you prefer. You could also all demonstrate your own capacity to act in good faith reciprocity to at least seriously consider the alternatives on the table for organizing against the rising tide of fascism in the US and beyond. I did read your socialist blog post, and I do read the discussion that takes place there. I've watched the videos you've recommended (not just the ones in your blog, but other ones you've posted here, in the past). I personally don't think that promoting socialism is a viable way to address Trump's fascism, as labeling anyone as Socialist/Communist immediately scares away half of the population (not saying it's justified). I think that economic philosophy labels like socialism and capitalism are generally going to work in favor of the latter when it comes to Americans' feelings, and the best move would be to gradually push for smaller socialized policies which could accumulate over time into that socialist label, as opposed to coming out of the gate with a push for capital-S Socialism. I think it'd be easier to get people to agree that they like the sound of [socialist policy 1] and [socialist policy 2] and [socialist policy 3] without them needing to identify as Socialists. Taboo, and all that crap. I recognize and appreciate your skepticism, as I trust you do mine. You know, if you talk to me over in my blog, I could probably work with you to find socialists that largely share your perspective (probably more than Democrats) and we could still work together from that angle? That said, I'm pretty confident you and LibHorizons are going to get along. LibHorizons: I'm with you on messaging, use what works. That simple. I think what Sen. Chris Murphy is saying here (echoing 2016 Bernie really) is how you breakthrough to everyday Americans across the political spectrum. Starts to show that you understand what went wrong, and you're going to do something about it. + Show Spoiler + Democrats and Republicans gave into this idea. That was really in vogue, about 20 years ago, that markets could fix everything right? That if you sort of properly tweak markets, ultimately those markets will be able to deliver happiness. And more than just markets, global markets. Jobs will be moved overseas, but the'll be replaced by cheaper goods and different, better jobs that will eventually raise the standard of living. Democrats bought into that, Republicans bought into it. It was a fucking lie! It was a fucking lie that was perpetrated on us by these masters of the global economy, the only people who really benefited from being able to move capital seamlessly and goods country to country.
We told Americans that if they just bought stuff, if they just were good consumers, if they got a little but higher income, if they got on that career ladder, ultimately, you know, that was meaning, that was purpose, that was fulfilment. It never, ever has been.
We made an enormous mistake believing in what I guess is referred to as the neoliberal economic order, markets will cure everything, and we're paying a huge price for that now. LibHorizons: Don't agree with everything he said in the interview, but that's the kind of message (tuned differently for different audiences) I think they need to be bringing to as many people as they can as soon as possible en masse. It is the very minimum we need from them to energize people to take the various actions we'll need them to over the coming days, months, and years. On February 22 2025 01:14 Sadist wrote:
Na i think it would be different because it would impact them personally. Its easy to be against all these things when you dont use them. LibHorizons: I think it is more likely government funds are redirected to private/religious services (in this case delivery/distribution) to subsidize them based on algorithms meant to maximize support for a sort of vague "white(club) Christian Nationalism" complementing a growing Neo-feudalism+ Show Spoiler +...As the distribution of political power shifted in the 1970s and 1980s, the financial industry began reprivatizing systems of law and finance. They invented new strategies of financial speculation to which regulators gave their blessing. Leverage buyout artists began acquiring entire companies using almost none of their own money, with the target company’s stock as collateral. In the new, pro-market environment, regulators concluded that this was legal.
The LBO business mutated into private equity, in which trillions of dollars of transactions were outside the system of securities regulation on the premise that these were not public offerings of shares. What had been a very small loophole in the structure of New Deal securities law metastasized into a largely unregulated multitrillion-dollar industry. Complex layers of derivatives securities were invented, in which immense and largely hidden multiples of leverage were possible. When some regulators expressed an interest in taking a closer look, a Congress newly beholden to the financial industry acted in 2000 to expressly prohibit regulation of derivatives, either as insurance, securities, or as gambling.
In the same period, public agencies delegated regulation to regulated industries via more than a dozen industry-controlled entities known as self-regulatory organizations (SROS). The original self-regulatory organization was the New York Stock Exchange, created in 1792. Prior to the New Deal, the Stock Exchange functioned as a private club, and its failure to enforce transparent and fair dealing had vast consequences for the public well-being when markets periodically crashed.
From the inception of securities regulation in 1933, there was bitter contention over how much enforcement would be the direct province of the new sec and how much would be delegated to the privately operated stock exchange. It is a testament to the residual power of capital that even at the nadir of its disgrace, the New York Stock Exchange won many of these initial skirmishes, setting an unfortunate pattern to be exploited once FDR was gone. Against the wishes of the sec’s original architects, the stock exchange was permitted to supervise many of its own activities with the sec relegated to watchdog, supervising at one remove. In 1939, the sec allowed the first explicitly recognized SRO, the National Association of Securities Dealers, to govern the system of over-the-counter (off-exchange) stock trades. This was just the beginning of a vast reversion.
After Wall Street invented financial derivatives in the 1980s, the whole field of derivatives creation and trading came to be governed by rules established by the industry trade association, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA). At its simplest level, a financial derivative is analogous to an insurance policy against a bond or other security failing to pay back interest or principal. But ISDA, not a government agency, gets to decide how derivatives work and under what circumstances that obligation must be paid. This is neo-feudalism, par excellence. The democratic state plays no role whatever, except to bless the privatized realm of law.
In the area of accounting standards, the sec expressly delegated monitoring and enforcement to the industry trade association, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA). When self-regulation failed and accounting frauds led to the Enron scandal and kindred abuses, Congress restored some direct regulatory standards via the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002. However, that same legislation created a new body, the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board (PCAOB), that enabled industry self-regulation to persist in a different form. PCAOB was created as a dot-org, not a government entity. Its president is paid over $670,000 a year. It is dominated by the Big Four accounting firms. The sec delegated a great deal of regulatory enforcement to it, as well as to another industry private association, FINRA, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (which used to go under its original and more accurate name, the National Association of Securities Dealers). By definition, the self-interest of securities dealers is not identical to that of the investing public.
SIFMA, the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, is a lobbying and trade association. But with the approval of the government, SIFMA also sets the regulatory standards for repos (overnight loans) and money-market and securities lending transactions through its “master templates.” There are similar industry groups that “regulate” the terms of municipal bond underwriting and sales (the Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board); the terms for creation and trading of futures (the National Futures Association); as well as the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB).
All of these industry self-regulatory bodies have their own systems of jurisprudence, far less transparent or committed to the public interest than the direct public regulation of the New Deal schema. Roosevelt’s original alphabet soup of new public agencies has mutated into a toxic stew of self-regulatory and self-interested organizations. It is one giant conflict of interest. I somewhat agree with a lot of what Murphy said in that interview you previously linked, although I somewhat disagree with some of his conclusions, and cheers for the link. MAGA isn’t some wholesale rejection of neo-liberalism, economically it is the ‘market with tweaks’ of which he speaks. Or in a sense it isn’t that both left and right are battling to establish some new path with the old orthodoxy thrown out. It’s the right being largely happy with it, with a few tweaks, the left (rightly IMO) dissatisfied with it, and a big swathe of the centre happy enough with it. So yeah a pivot will enthuse some people, I’m just not sure it defuses many others so to speak. Now this doesn’t mean I don’t think the pivot is worthwhile doing, to the contrary for many reasons. LibHorizons: Yeah, there's certainly room for improvement. The point isn't really to convince MAGA of anything. It's to speak to the millions of voters Democrats lost between 2020 and 2024, as well as the 10's of millions of non-voters and third party voters that generally agree with Democrats like Bernie's social democratic rhetoric. That said, Murphy's (2016 Bernie's) points about corruption, oligarchy, campaign finance, etc are things that also resonate with MAGA voters (and probably will more if they feel like that corruption screwed them over in any way). Even more so if you go after a sacred cow like Pelosi for insider trading and remove someone like Adams for clear quid pro quo. It will be nearly impossible to reach anyone but the most already loyal if they try to continue to let stuff like that fester.
Cheers for the response.
Just bold by bold point.
Yeah, largely agree.
I’m not sure, either way. I think a lot of them have shown they’re full of shit in professing to actually care about that other than a justification to go after various political enemies. But perhaps it would have some traction.
I guess, call it intuition, somewhat backed by observation of course, I just feel we missed some shots and now the wheel is just in a different, shitter section.
In the sense that I think pivoting in some of those directions would have given you some pretty easy, free wins. Aside from just being good policy I agree with personally, in say 2016.
Now? I’m really not so sure. It feels like nonsense like the great ‘culture war’ has poisoned the well so much in the interim that I think people who would have been receptive to some basic, moderate Euro level soc dem stuff in 2016 would recoil now.
Not just in the States either, those cultural tendrils of Fascism, or Fascism adjacent ideas have taken root in ye olde Europe too to a degree they really hadn’t back 10-15 years. To the degree, with the odd exception, even when it frequently didn’t happen, I always felt with the right conditions and the right campaign thrust, the right leader etc the left could break through and prosper in various places. Now? Feels like it’s a perpetual game of just defending against the far right and hoping the centre doesn’t break.
I’m not a man who enjoys being wrong, I do hope I am! My current vague position is that basically there was a window to do these things, and grab people through socioeconomic uplift and a more equitable society, good old-fashioned ‘let’s make things better!’.
Now? You’re not just fighting against capitalist Stockholm syndrome, which is tough enough already due to its deep cultural imprint, but resurgent virulent nationalism, bigotry that is no longer buried but worn proudly, etc etc.
I’m not a big fan of Nazi Germany parallels so do excuse me, but it feels like a much less extreme version of the tail end of the Weimar Republic and how it looks a few years into Nazism. Merely in the sense that conceivably you maybe head off Nazism if the stars align in the former, but you’re kinda shit out of luck in the latter.
Not to be defeatist at all, gotta keep fighting that good fight (oh sorry is that threatening language folks?). Just you had a (relatively) easy win condition, now I’m not sure doing that now has the same effect.
It’s the difference between me hitting a sickening Immortal/Sentry all-in in the ballpark of the kinda timing pros are, and trying it but 2-3 minutes late. OK maybe it’s the play but it’s not gonna work in the latter scenario.
To bring it back to the Dems somewhat, I think that’s a particularly damning element of it. They pissed away a timing window that may (or may not) no longer exist.
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On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
The WIRED article had a number of possible explanations, and only one of them was the default value. But there were three main takeaways: (1) 98% of people listed over 100 years old did not receive benefits, (2) they automatically stop benefits for anybody listed as over 115 years of age, regardless of whether they are flagged as dead or not, and most importantly, (3) they were entirely aware of this inaccuracy and problem in their system, but fixing it was too expensive and not worth the expenditure .
But I'm sure Musk knows better and found billions of dollars of fraud. He can't tell you exactly how much, but it's a big number. Definitely. He'll tell you as soon as he can figure out how to host a website.
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On February 22 2025 08:02 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff. And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves. I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take.
LibHorizons: I understand your problems with Greenhorizons, but you all have me here now. With that in mind, I think it'd be useful to take this opportunity to talk about what us libs/Dems/ilk are doing/going to do
Be a shame to waste this opportunity and our limited time to fixate on old grievances (or bicker with oBlade) imo.
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Northern Ireland23717 Posts
On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff.
They won’t. By and large.
It happens in a particular scenario. If you are hoodwinked, deceived, without a proper visible counter-movement, or it’s it’s some overly complex phenomenon that nobody properly explained to you. Then sure you see it happen pretty smoothly.
You’re not gonna see it here, at least not wholesale. Not that it counts for all that much but I can give my WombaT guarantee on this!
I’ve seen this dance before with Brexit (twice in one day, I’ll maybe not mention tomorrow). I’ve had more joy trying to walk through a solid wall, technically it’s physically possible, alas i left my camera lens on, than I’ve ever had getting a Brexiteer to concede they got anything wrong, even when everything that was predicted, happened.
It’s a pride thing. Ya won’t see it.
You could, and did see it in 2016 Trump voters. You might see it in like, a young first-time voter who just entered adulthood for 2024.
You’re highly unlikely to see it in anyone who voted Trump in 2016, 2020 and 2024. At least the enthusiastic ones.
For them to do that requires that they have to admit that us liberal cucks were right and they nailed their flag to the wrong mast for 8 years. Which I think is highly unlikely.
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On February 22 2025 08:18 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence. The WIRED article had a number of possible explanations, and only one of them was the default value. But there were three main takeaways: (1) 98% of people listed over 100 years old did not receive benefits, (2) they automatically stop benefits for anybody listed as over 115 years of age, regardless of whether they are flagged as dead or not, and most importantly, (3) they were entirely aware of this inaccuracy and problem in their system, but fixing it was too expensive and not worth the expenditure . But I'm sure Musk knows better and found billions of dollars of fraud. He can't tell you exactly how much, but it's a big number. Definitely. He'll tell you as soon as he can figure out how to host a website.
Musk appears to be greatly enjoying making up huge numbers that don't even remotely comport with reality.
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On February 22 2025 08:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 08:02 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff. And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves. I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take. LibHorizons: I understand your problems with Greenhorizons, but you all have me here now. With that in mind, I think it'd be useful to take this opportunity to talk about what us libs/Dems/ilk are doing/going to do Be a shame to waste this opportunity and our limited time to fixate on old grievances (or bicker with oBlade) imo.
You aren't cosplaying a liberal well enough if you don't bicker with oBlade for at least 3 pages.
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Northern Ireland23717 Posts
On February 22 2025 08:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 08:02 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff. And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves. I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take. LibHorizons: I understand your problems with Greenhorizons, but you all have me here now. With that in mind, I think it'd be useful to take this opportunity to talk about what us libs/Dems/ilk are doing/going to do Be a shame to waste this opportunity and our limited time to fixate on old grievances (or bicker with oBlade) imo.
I swear you’re going to get sued because surely there’s a think-tank somewhere with the name ‘LibHorizons’ haha
Have you considered really selling the persona and requesting your account gets nuked and then returning and claiming you’re not GH?
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Northern Ireland23717 Posts
On February 22 2025 08:31 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 08:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 22 2025 08:02 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff. And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves. I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take. LibHorizons: I understand your problems with Greenhorizons, but you all have me here now. With that in mind, I think it'd be useful to take this opportunity to talk about what us libs/Dems/ilk are doing/going to do Be a shame to waste this opportunity and our limited time to fixate on old grievances (or bicker with oBlade) imo. You aren't cosplaying a liberal well enough if you don't bicker with oBlade for at least 3 pages.
Oi, who ya calllin’ a liberal mate?
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On February 22 2025 08:22 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2025 08:02 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2025 05:58 Sadist wrote:On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote:
I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc. You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for. When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face. I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff. And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves. I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take. LibHorizons: I understand your problems with Greenhorizons, but you all have me here now. With that in mind, I think it'd be useful to take this opportunity to talk about what us libs/Dems/ilk are doing/going to do Be a shame to waste this opportunity and our limited time to fixate on old grievances (or bicker with oBlade) imo.
I imagine stuff like the 50501 movement is the kind of thing LH would like. And GH might still like it better than Kwark’s post-Soviet survivalism prescription.
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The Dems, and all their supporters just need to stop taking the MAGA and Tankie bait and stick to the easy to prove ways that Trump sucks. Put the price of things rising up all the time, maybe even beside the rising net worth's of the various billionaires that are "helping" people. Soon they will be able to also put up job reports and so on.
The rest of the stuff is not going to work even if it is correct, because the information they are taking in is so wildly different. Just got to stick to the basics.
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EPT
