Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On February 22 2025 09:20 Billyboy wrote: The Dems, and all their supporters just need to stop taking the MAGA and Tankie bait and stick to the easy to prove ways that Trump sucks. Put the price of things rising up all the time, maybe even beside the rising net worth's of the various billionaires that are "helping" people. Soon they will be able to also put up job reports and so on.
The rest of the stuff is not going to work even if it is correct, because the information they are taking in is so wildly different. Just got to stick to the basics.
Easy to prove to whom though? Because we can list a hundred different reasons why Trump sucks, and most of those reasons would resonate with most normal people... but zero of those reasons resonate with Trump supporters. So we try another hundred reasons. And those don't stick either. And so we specifically ask Trump supporters what issues they care about, and then we show them that Trump specifically undermines those exact issues... and the supporters still don't care.
When a person won't accept any evidence, what kind of evidence could you possibly present to them?
On February 22 2025 09:20 Billyboy wrote: The Dems, and all their supporters just need to stop taking the MAGA and Tankie bait and stick to the easy to prove ways that Trump sucks. Put the price of things rising up all the time, maybe even beside the rising net worth's of the various billionaires that are "helping" people. Soon they will be able to also put up job reports and so on.
The rest of the stuff is not going to work even if it is correct, because the information they are taking in is so wildly different. Just got to stick to the basics.
But the basics don’t work either. They haven’t worked in 8 years.
People have already pointed this stuff out for years but no seemingly no avail.
Pick a topic and people do this, and have done this.
I mean take your pick, why tariffs aren’t a great idea, hey this bloke baselessly claimed a stolen election and incited a coup. The only reason he hasn’t blown Vladimir Putin already is because that’s not an erotic enough act of obsequience. That just relocating Gazans is a great plan, that climate change is real, that horse medicine isn’t a miracle Covid cure, Zelensky is a dictator and Ukraine provoked Russia…
The list is almost endless, I can’t even keep up with it.
What additional dose of somewhat sober facts is going to move that needle?
No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Are you seriously suggesting substantial elements of the wider body politique hasn’t tried ‘pointing out what Donald Trump actually does’ in 8 years?
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over. As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report. And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining.
Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Are you seriously suggesting substantial elements of the wider body politique hasn’t tried ‘pointing out what Donald Trump actually does’ in 8 years?
I'm suggesting the tail is wagging the dog and the stuff important to them is getting lost in the culture war nonsense. A war that they are winning as far as getting mroe on their side
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Are you seriously suggesting substantial elements of the wider body politique hasn’t tried ‘pointing out what Donald Trump actually does’ in 8 years?
I'm suggesting the tail is wagging the dog and the stuff important to them is getting lost in the culture war nonsense. A war that they are winning as far as getting mroe on their side
But you didn’t say that, you said that just laying out how Trump sucks is the go-to, and that to directly quote ‘no one has tried that’
If you had initially said what you just did, myself and DPB would have responded differently.
As to your point, I think much of the culture war is complete bullshit. Equally I think it’s a war one has to win. Precisely because it’s poisoned things so much that things like facts and policy outcomes have largely ceased to matter.
In a more neutral universe, ‘hey look how the price of eggs have gone up’ has some real resonance, in a world of ‘I don’t care, overall we’re winning’ it doesn’t.
Frankly I’d prefer to live in a world where my rules and intuitions are king. Failing that, rewind things 10-15 years and it’s an upgrade.
Unfortunately that’s not the world we currently inhabit. Trying to apply norms and tactics that may have worked back in the day so to speak, today well the lay of the land has changed a lot in the interim.
On February 22 2025 06:58 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
On February 22 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:
On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:
On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote: I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc.
You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for.
When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face.
The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
Blaming the Democrats for Elon Musk lying about 150-year-olds receiving money? Even Fox called out Musk:
"Musk, who has been tasked with leading DOGE as a special government employee, spoke to reporters on Tuesday from the Oval Office of the White House with President Donald Trump and said DOGE found payments going to beneficiaries listed as being around the age of 150, though he didn't go into detail about the claims." https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/musk-claims-150-year-olds-receiving-social-security-benefits
You don't have to attempt to defend every stupid lie that Musk and Trump create, or attempt to spin it so that it's other people's fault that they're full of shit.
It’s pure cuck behaviour and it’s hilarious that these people don’t see it that way. At least some people just admit they love the destruction of the American government and they don’t really care how they get there. Musk dickriders will do everything in their power to not admit that the man is an inept idiot despite years of proof because it would destroy the idea of a capitalist meritocracy, even his autobiography shows him as one if readers actually spent one minute to think about the actions described by Walter Issacson.
When Musk tried to explain away his paid Path for Exile 2 account away, his more ardent fans bought his claim that what he was doing was normal and that every top player does the same thing as he does. Anyone with a brain would know 1) that isn’t remotely true because we have physical streaming proof of most of the top players and 2) he is still inept at the game so he’s still stealing the achievements of his boosters but apparently to these fans you can defend everything with “it’s just an opinion bro! there is no right or wrong, we can agree to disagree!”. There is no talking to these type of people because they refuse to call a spade a spade because it would require changing their worldview.
That feels insulting to cucks, at least their partner and their partner’s partner are having a good time!
It’s utterly pathetic, it really is. I don’t think any human merits this kind of fawning anyway, but of all people fucking Musk and Trump lmao?
I remember his deranged, strange fans savaging some engineer for correcting Musk on something, the embarrassing part was you could check yourself in any decent web browser and Musk was 100% wrong. And if ya didn’t know how you coulda just followed the 2-3 steps people provided for just that purpose.
Jesus funking Christ
At least Trump is photogenic and there is at least a grain of truth in the positions he holds. I can 100% understand the support he gets because he speaks to some very real issues that no one wants to deal with, just he is giving none of the actual solutions.
Musk is in every sense of the word a huge loser. And not just a huge loser, an extremely stupid one. Like this short video is the perfect summary of a typical Elon Musk week:
Musk calls a former ISS commander a retard for calling out for lying about Biden leaving astronauts to die on the ISS; wants to immediately get rid of the ISS in response to this because he’s a huge bitch who can’t be told no; two baby mothers are using Twitter to get a hold of him because he’s a deadbeat dad while Grimes gets shadowbanned in the process; is still crying about legacy media when fucking Fox News is larger than every piece of legacy media right now put together and thinks his own website is a reputable source; tells the world HE IS MEME while being unable to string a paragraph together without going into a stutter train.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over. As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report. And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining.
Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
Eggs are for soy liberal cucks and anyway, it’s Biden’s fault. Cry harder lib, you’re missing eggs while I’m over here making America great again MAGA tariffs CRT.
On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote: I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc.
You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for.
When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face.
I think they didnt believe these things would happen. If they actually happen and impact them they will change their tune. You see it all the time with the leopards eating faces stuff.
And then when it comes back time for elections these are the people who are swayed by the GHs of the world who convince them that voteing dem is actually a bad thing. They are presented with someone willing to treat them like a mature adult and someone who treats them like children who don't need to think for themselves.
I don't believe that these people seriously don't think these things will matter. You see with gh even now trying to convince other people to do things that he refuses to do. The people who do so little research that they don't know that slavery is on the ballot for the election shouldn't be trusted for any political take.
LibHorizons: I understand your problems with Greenhorizons, but you all have me here now. With that in mind, I think it'd be useful to take this opportunity to talk about what us libs/Dems/ilk are doing/going to do
Be a shame to waste this opportunity and our limited time to fixate on old grievances (or bicker with oBlade) imo.
I imagine stuff like the 50501 movement is the kind of thing LH would like. And GH might still like it better than Kwark’s post-Soviet survivalism prescription.
LibHorizons: It had some promise, but is too far on the right/ahistorical wing of the party for my liking personally. They don't seem to recognize the actual function of protests. They insist on their protests not being disruptive + Show Spoiler +
. I noticed this when it was first mentioned, saw the pictures, and realized they were mostly on sidewalks. That's just not how Democrats have ever gotten anything of note done.
That said, it's a start. But chances are they'll have to learn the hard way after getting their asses whooped and thrown in jail without so much as a mention in between mass resignations/firings being announced on the local news. No one cares unless you make them care by disrupting their ability to continue. You have to be pretty thick to look at the last 8 years of Trump and conclude that people will revolt at the sight of libs getting their heads bashed by cops,proudboys, and the like. It'd probably be its own show on Fox News and sponsored by DraftKings with Rogan doing commentary before the midterms .
On February 22 2025 06:58 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
On February 22 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 22 2025 06:09 oBlade wrote:
On February 22 2025 05:25 Sermokala wrote:
On February 21 2025 23:53 Sadist wrote: I dont think hes going to make it to the end of his term if he keeps up with all this stuff. These policies are going to be wildly unpopular amongst his constituents if they start being realized. I can see people (Republicans and Democrats) demanding republican members of congress and the senate do something. Be it town halls or whatever. He and Elon are going to do damage to our country that will take decades to fix. Alliances,supply chains, etc.
You make the mistake that facts and logic mean anything to these people. They were told very clearly what was going to happen and they did not care. They are being told what is happening right now and they do not care to listen to facts and logic. The CBOL labeling thing is a simple explanation but the simple act of explaining something to them that contradicts what musk says is taken as a personal attack that they need to retaliate for.
When things go wrong they will blame biden and democrats. His base will believe it and will refuse to see whats right in front of their face.
The COBOL thing is this: that DOGE said the databases have tens of millions of people alive over the age of 100 and posted age buckets with specifics. The corporatist-Democrat immune system concocted some meme antibodies for this about default age values being 150. And it stopped there because it fails to account for its own obvious discrepancy of there being more people aged 140 than 150 in the age buckets provided. You wouldn't expect continuous tapering, you'd have tapering and a spike at 150. Did a brave career civil servant separately leak conflicting information about the secure and private SSA databases in order to whistleblow on DOGE that I missed? This explanation doesn't have to explain it, it just has to appear to serve the role of explaining it. Because he happened to say "150" as the arbitrary preposterous age to express the records' reality-divergence.
Blaming the Democrats for Elon Musk lying about 150-year-olds receiving money? Even Fox called out Musk:
"Musk, who has been tasked with leading DOGE as a special government employee, spoke to reporters on Tuesday from the Oval Office of the White House with President Donald Trump and said DOGE found payments going to beneficiaries listed as being around the age of 150, though he didn't go into detail about the claims." https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/musk-claims-150-year-olds-receiving-social-security-benefits
You don't have to attempt to defend every stupid lie that Musk and Trump create, or attempt to spin it so that it's other people's fault that they're full of shit.
It’s pure cuck behaviour and it’s hilarious that these people don’t see it that way. At least some people just admit they love the destruction of the American government and they don’t really care how they get there. Musk dickriders will do everything in their power to not admit that the man is an inept idiot despite years of proof because it would destroy the idea of a capitalist meritocracy, even his autobiography shows him as one if readers actually spent one minute to think about the actions described by Walter Issacson.
When Musk tried to explain away his paid Path for Exile 2 account away, his more ardent fans bought his claim that what he was doing was normal and that every top player does the same thing as he does. Anyone with a brain would know 1) that isn’t remotely true because we have physical streaming proof of most of the top players and 2) he is still inept at the game so he’s still stealing the achievements of his boosters but apparently to these fans you can defend everything with “it’s just an opinion bro! there is no right or wrong, we can agree to disagree!”. There is no talking to these type of people because they refuse to call a spade a spade because it would require changing their worldview.
That feels insulting to cucks, at least their partner and their partner’s partner are having a good time!
It’s utterly pathetic, it really is. I don’t think any human merits this kind of fawning anyway, but of all people fucking Musk and Trump lmao?
I remember his deranged, strange fans savaging some engineer for correcting Musk on something, the embarrassing part was you could check yourself in any decent web browser and Musk was 100% wrong. And if ya didn’t know how you coulda just followed the 2-3 steps people provided for just that purpose.
Jesus funking Christ
At least Trump is photogenic and there is at least a grain of truth in the positions he holds. I can 100% understand the support he gets because he speaks to some very real issues that no one wants to deal with, just he is giving none of the actual solutions.
Musk is in every sense of the word a huge loser. Like this short video is the perfect summary of a typical Elon Musk week:
Musk calls a former ISS commander a retard for calling out for lying about Biden leaving astronauts to die on the ISS; wants to immediately get rid of the ISS in response to this because he’s a huge bitch who can’t be told no; two baby mothers are using Twitter to get a hold of him because he’s a deadbeat dad while Grimes gets shadowbanned in the process; is still crying about legacy media when fucking Fox News is larger than every piece of legacy media right now put together and thinks his own website is a reputable source; tells the world HE IS MEME while being unable to string a paragraph together without going into a stutter train.
And this is the man these cucks choose to stan.
For all of his many fucking faults, part of me wishes I had a fraction of Trump’s sheer brass balls, that self-belief. While dealing the whole, I can respect that aspect of him.
Musk it’s like flashbacks to all of the most cringe moments in my entire life. I don’t even have that many!
Being 16 and thinking I was the smartest person in any room until I wised up. The odd time I deviated from my usual to fit in a bit more despite anyone being able to sniff my insincerity from miles off. God I hated that.
Musk is much more embarrassing and ultimately pathetic than teen WombaT ever was, and he’s a supposedly grown man with billions behind him.
Imagine being a fucking billionaire and still trying to impress edgelords on 4chan versus, I dunno doing cool shit and being a parent.
What a joke of a man.
His fanboys going ‘you’re just jealous though’, lmao. Of course being a billionaire would be nice. At least I’m frequently miserable because I’m poor, I’m not miserable because I’m me.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over. As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report. And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining.
Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
Eggs are for soy liberal cucks and anyway, it’s Biden’s fault. Cry harder lib, you’re missing eggs while I’m over here making America great again MAGA tariffs CRT.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Are you seriously suggesting substantial elements of the wider body politique hasn’t tried ‘pointing out what Donald Trump actually does’ in 8 years?
I'm suggesting the tail is wagging the dog and the stuff important to them is getting lost in the culture war nonsense. A war that they are winning as far as getting mroe on their side
But you didn’t say that, you said that just laying out how Trump sucks is the go-to, and that to directly quote ‘no one has tried that’
If you had initially said what you just did, myself and DPB would have responded differently.
As to your point, I think much of the culture war is complete bullshit. Equally I think it’s a war one has to win. Precisely because it’s poisoned things so much that things like facts and policy outcomes have largely ceased to matter.
In a more neutral universe, ‘hey look how the price of eggs have gone up’ has some real resonance, in a world of ‘I don’t care, overall we’re winning’ it doesn’t.
Frankly I’d prefer to live in a world where my rules and intuitions are king. Failing that, rewind things 10-15 years and it’s an upgrade.
Unfortunately that’s not the world we currently inhabit. Trying to apply norms and tactics that may have worked back in the day so to speak, today well the lay of the land has changed a lot in the interim.
Gonna assume your "at the pub" again because your reading comp sucks. Or you're just angry, either way I'll pass.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over. As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report. And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining.
Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
Eggs are for soy liberal cucks and anyway, it’s Biden’s fault. Cry harder lib, you’re missing eggs while I’m over here making America great again MAGA tariffs CRT.
They literally don’t care.
The full MAGAs don't, I mean they literally think there is a massive amount of people older than the US receiving social security checks and DOGE is making them money.
But then there is the other part of the Republican party that voted for Trump because they thought he would be good for the economy. He's being shockingly awful to the economy.
My anecdotal shit is not nearly as good as you guys, but there are plenty of Trump supporters here (some MAGA as well), and the tariffs, 51st state stuff has already changed some minds.
Just don't let the tail wag the dog.
I'm also all for some venting, and this is a low traffic place to do it. I'm talking about what I believe the democratic party's strategy should be.
For individuals they should be like Chris Kluwe. Very direct, and not online.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Are you seriously suggesting substantial elements of the wider body politique hasn’t tried ‘pointing out what Donald Trump actually does’ in 8 years?
I'm suggesting the tail is wagging the dog and the stuff important to them is getting lost in the culture war nonsense. A war that they are winning as far as getting mroe on their side
But you didn’t say that, you said that just laying out how Trump sucks is the go-to, and that to directly quote ‘no one has tried that’
If you had initially said what you just did, myself and DPB would have responded differently.
As to your point, I think much of the culture war is complete bullshit. Equally I think it’s a war one has to win. Precisely because it’s poisoned things so much that things like facts and policy outcomes have largely ceased to matter.
In a more neutral universe, ‘hey look how the price of eggs have gone up’ has some real resonance, in a world of ‘I don’t care, overall we’re winning’ it doesn’t.
Frankly I’d prefer to live in a world where my rules and intuitions are king. Failing that, rewind things 10-15 years and it’s an upgrade.
Unfortunately that’s not the world we currently inhabit. Trying to apply norms and tactics that may have worked back in the day so to speak, today well the lay of the land has changed a lot in the interim.
Gonna assume your "at the pub" again because your reading comp sucks. Or you're just angry, either way I'll pass.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over. As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report. And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining.
Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
Eggs are for soy liberal cucks and anyway, it’s Biden’s fault. Cry harder lib, you’re missing eggs while I’m over here making America great again MAGA tariffs CRT.
They literally don’t care.
The full MAGAs don't, I mean they literally think there is a massive amount of people older than the US receiving social security checks and DOGE is making them money.
But then there is the other part of the Republican party that voted for Trump because they thought he would be good for the economy. He's being shockingly awful to the economy.
My anecdotal shit is not nearly as good as you guys, but there are plenty of Trump supporters here (some MAGA as well), and the tariffs, 51st state stuff has already changed some minds.
Just don't let the tail wag the dog.
I'm also all for some venting, and this is a low traffic place to do it. I'm talking about what I believe the democratic party's strategy should be.
For individuals they should be like Chris Kluwe. Very direct, and not online.
It’s really odd how you keep referencing an earnest apology I sent to a PBU via PM. For such a sensitive soul you’re sure not above throwing personal digs when it suits eh?
Yes, Trump-adjacent folks in Canada might be swayed by talk of annexing parts of Canada. That’s obviously bad craic. When nationalisms collide.
As (some) in Europe who thought he was a breath of fresh air in ways sorta reacted badly to his ‘fuck Europe’ policy.
It’s quite another to have folks internally, flip around.
Your suggestion is to do what many, many folks have already been doing for 8 years, while claiming they haven’t been attempting it.
They literally don’t care. They care about what Fox News tells them to think about and if egg prices go up then there will be a trans person existing somewhere that Fox can report on instead.
Biden’s presidency was objectively really (edited, except for the parts where he vacillated on Ukraine and failed to have Trump hanged in the middle of DC, ultimately resulting in a victory for Russia and the transfer of power to a fascist) good, especially on issues like tacking inflation. Trump was printing money until the last month of his presidency and Biden’s policy of interest rate hikes coupled with selective investment in domestic manufacturing, infrastructure, and jobs got it under control in a way that was measurably better than every benchmark nation. If these people could be swayed by reality they wouldn’t be the people they so obviously are.
You’re taking them at face value because they appear sincere. They appear to sincerely care about eggs. What you’re missing is that they’re a bunch of clowns too stupid to tie their own clown shoes. They were sincerely terrified by the migrant caravan too. And they were sincerely concerned about all the men wearing dresses that were filling every bathroom in the nation. And they were sincerely upset that each primary school in the country replaced its entire curriculum with a new class dedicated to teaching white guilt. And so on and so on.
You come to them with egg price data and they will be sincerely confused by why you think they’d care about something so trivial. So eggs are now $8/doz instead of $6. Who cares? Assuming your family eats 4 eggs with breakfast twice a week that’s like $80/year, it’s not hugely material, not when you drive a Ford F150 and have a good paying job at your father’s nepotism factory. Why are you talking about eggs? Why aren’t you addressing the real issue, fentanyl snuggling from Canada?
The US has a history of hard drug epidemics. It doesn‘t even matter what‘s being smuggled. Best way to deal with it imho is allowing people to get hooked to something, anything that isn‘t as destructive.
Austria fares well with alcohol, cigs and gambling. Sure it kills many anyway. But it doesn‘t create zombie cities. Who cares if your beer is in a paper bag when everyone is on opiates lmao.
It‘s just how the brain works most of the time. Almost everyone needs something less…ideal…functionality-wise but rewarding to enjoy.
On February 22 2025 11:11 KwarK wrote: They literally don’t care. They care about what Fox News tells them to think about and if egg prices go up then there will be a trans person existing somewhere that Fox can report on instead.
Biden’s presidency was objectively really (edited, except for the parts where he vacillated on Ukraine and failed to have Trump hanged in the middle of DC, ultimately resulting in a victory for Russia and the transfer of power to a fascist) good, especially on issues like tacking inflation. Trump was printing money until the last month of his presidency and Biden’s policy of interest rate hikes coupled with selective investment in domestic manufacturing, infrastructure, and jobs got it under control in a way that was measurably better than every benchmark nation. If these people could be swayed by reality they wouldn’t be the people they so obviously are.
You’re taking them at face value because they appear sincere. They appear to sincerely care about eggs. What you’re missing is that they’re a bunch of clowns too stupid to tie their own clown shoes. They were sincerely terrified by the migrant caravan too. And they were sincerely concerned about all the men wearing dresses that were filling every bathroom in the nation. And they were sincerely upset that each primary school in the country replaced its entire curriculum with a new class dedicated to teaching white guilt. And so on and so on.
You come to them with egg price data and they will be sincerely confused by why you think they’d care about something so trivial. So eggs are now $8/doz instead of $6. Who cares? Assuming your family eats 4 eggs with breakfast twice a week that’s like $80/year, it’s not hugely material, not when you drive a Ford F150 and have a good paying job at your father’s nepotism factory. Why are you talking about eggs? Why aren’t you addressing the real issue, fentanyl snuggling from Canada?
Obviously correct, although a bit of me would find it hilarious if it were egg prices that brought the whole edifice crashing down
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over. As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report. And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining.
Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
I don't see why eggs and inflation would matter to Trump supporters, when they always move the goalposts for every issue that Trump fails to deliver on. They care about eggs and inflation if they can blame Democrats, but not when Republicans are to blame.
We already have proof from Trump's first term that jobs reports and employment percentages don't matter to Republicans, when Trump is in charge and failing miserably at them.
On February 22 2025 09:41 Billyboy wrote: No one has tried this, every time oBlade or GH post something everyone takes the bait and the point is missed. Or musk or trump. People want to win arguments and its pretty easy because its mostly dumb shit. But then you lose bigger things like elections.
Would you mind naming a few points that you think would turn Trump supporters away from Trump? How would you convince Trump supporters to no longer support him?
Yes, in fact I thought I did.
Bring up the price of eggs. And inflation in general over and over.
Isn't the counter just "Biden"?/ You can't expect Trump fix it one month? (And then proceed to ignore how Trump is doing nothing at all in regards to inflation.)
On February 22 2025 09:55 Billyboy wrote: As Doge shits the bed, bring up the jobs report.
So I saw a fascinating thing come across my facebook feed- one of those mass news commentary with hundreds of replies. I was amazed at the number of people that had fully bought into gnosis- secret knowledge. The billionaire class generally (And Musk specifically) have a secret knowledge that us poor plebians (including themselves) could not possibly understand. Didn't matter which DOGE screw up was pointed out ($8B vs $8M), it was all countered by, "Well Musk knows what he's doing. He's a billionaire, a super genius. It might not make sense to us, but he obviously knows everything about the government and it's all according to plan" (Paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it.) Truly confounding.
And occasionally put these and other stats up against how much those in office (and musk) wealth is gaining. Don't have to win anything short term, just have to keep on message until election time.
This, too I've found to little effect with some of my own friends up in Canada. They make a false equivalence that the Democrats were doing the same thing all along and isn't it nice that at least it's being done in the open now... !!! And that's it. Other side bad (with no real equivalent examples) and open and blatant corruption is preferable to whatever was going on before. It's very confounding to find the number of Canadian Trump apologists for our own annexation. No matter what he does or says, it's obviously all according to super genius businessmen tactics. He's not like us, not like those politicians. This is how is our big shot CEOs take care of business. The only thing I've seen so far that kinda gave some supporters a pause is Trump blaming Ukraine for getting invaded/ calling Zelensky a dictator. Probably not hardcore MAGA-supporters (certainly not ones that have been won over by Russian propaganda via Carlson, Pool, and the like), but MAGA voters nonetheless.
The secret knowledge is a catch-all that covers over every sin. "In Trump We Trust", says the blasphemous golden goat in Mars Lago. But the golden image lies. And the masses listen.
EPT
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