EPTConsistency is irrelevant.
The exact meaning of words is irrelevant.
As long as people get the vague notion that Trump is speaking to them that is all that matters.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4682
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9859 Posts
Consistency is irrelevant. The exact meaning of words is irrelevant. As long as people get the vague notion that Trump is speaking to them that is all that matters. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5600 Posts
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KT_Elwood
Germany1151 Posts
They want americans. He can't say "I hate being around poor non-white people, but I sure love the low wages and gardening skills" or he sounds like a democrat who forgot to activate his PC-filter (Apparently some democrat actually asked on live TV who'd be picking the cotton if all the migrant workers were pushed back... or it was a fake) | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 03 2025 00:52 KT_Elwood wrote: Yeah the issue right now is that his vague kind of language and "didn't mean that..he just said it" stuff breaks apart at H1B Visas that racists don't want because they think America can sustain it's innovation without braindraining the rest of the world. They want americans. He can't say "I hate being around poor non-white people, but I sure love the low wages and gardening skills" or he sounds like a democrat who forgot to activate his PC-filter (Apparently some democrat actually asked on live TV who'd be picking the cotton if all the migrant workers were pushed back... or it was a fake) That's not a fake quote, except it's about strawberry fields. And it wasn't a Democrat, it was a female farmer standing on the field and being interviewed by right-wing news. She explained to the reporter that no American-born wants to pick strawberries even for a high wage. She gets zero applications from them. | ||
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oBlade
United States6205 Posts
On January 02 2025 18:18 KT_Elwood wrote: Yes thank you. I wanted to point out that Trump really needs to do overtime on finding a logic in contradicting statements from him, his team, him 4 years ago, him 8 years ago, all the shit he tells on his rallys vs all the shit he twixxors. Donald "Big Beautiful Door In That Wall So They Can Come In Legally" Blumpf really doesn't need to do that, no, because nobody who hasn't excluded themselves from politics by their own confessed obstinance thinks in that way. We would rather someone be wrong and change their mind than be wrong, but unwaveringly so, in perpetuity. Also we're living in the present and thinking about the future, not living in the past. And at any rate he's always been for legal immigration ("they have to come in through a system"), there's no serious contradiction there. On January 02 2025 18:18 KT_Elwood wrote: Setting up a shadow cabinet with billionaires.. and a real cabinet with millionaires and billionaire proteges also suggest that he isn't reaaally real about draining swamps or improving living conditions for the 99,9% non wealht aristocrats in the US. There is nothing wrong with millionaires, or billionaires, per se. George Washington was incredibly wealthy. If you have a problem with billionaires as a class, more of them backed the blue team than red. But people outside of OWS and communists and people who execute CEOs don't talk or think about billionaires that way. Neither has "the swamp" ever referred to what you're implying it does. It does not mean the people you are envious of just for their wealth and success. It's a permanent class of people, largely in Washington, who bounce between corporate and public life (esp. bureaucratic, but not only, elected too) to sustain/advance their careers at all cost at the expense of selling out the American people to benefit cronies. This should have been obvious when the President himself was a billionaire. The reason the Pelosis and Crenshaws and Warrens of the world are corrupt is because they don't (didn't) otherwise have money. There's nothing Musk can get from insider day trading in government that he couldn't get by just tweeting about stonks. Actual voters care about what people think and say and do. If Blumpf filled his cabinet full of poverty level high school graduates I have a suspicion you wouldn't be lauding his decisions either so you can dispense with the veil, the issue here is obviously not about any cabinet or shadow cabinet, just a sad loathing of the rich. On January 03 2025 00:52 KT_Elwood wrote: Yeah the issue right now is that his vague kind of language and "didn't mean that..he just said it" stuff breaks apart at H1B Visas that racists don't want because they think America can sustain it's innovation without braindraining the rest of the world. They want americans. People do not want H1B visas because they specifically see companies, and sectors, laying off American workers and replacing them with cheaper imported foreign labor. And they see companies refusing to hire American workers while advertising run of the mill jobs that don't need immigrants for H1Bs. And they see people gaming the system to get H1Bs to friends/associates. People are against that. This includes people who DO support poaching talent from other countries, and brain draining rivals of their geniuses (O1 visa). They just realize that's not the truth of the current use of H1Bs. They're actually read about the issues and have specific demonstrable criticisms of the implementation. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On January 03 2025 03:25 Magic Powers wrote: That's not a fake quote, except it's about strawberry fields. And it wasn't a Democrat, it was a female farmer standing on the field and being interviewed by right-wing news. She explained to the reporter that no American-born wants to pick strawberries even for a high wage. She gets zero applications from them. I don't know a single person who would not pick strawberries for 300K/year. People work on oil rigs. There are some truly heinous and deeply unsafe jobs that are done by Americans. People turning down $15/hour or even $25/hour makes sense. My point is just that Americans do jobs wayyyy less enjoyable than picking strawberries. If the farmer just kept increasing the pay each week, someone would have applied. If it turns out she can't afford the wage people require to do the work, it turns out she's a shitty business owner and she ought to go out of business. I am particularly firm in my dismissal of H1B because my industry (semiconductor manufacturing) has insanely high standards for recruiting and will turn down tons and tons of extremely good candidates in favor of someone who is truly extraordinary. Then at the same time, we will also have a fleet of terrible H1Bs. The difference in work is staggering. All the while great candidates are turned down. Its a gigantic mess and incredibly clearly busted in my industry. I don't doubt H1B has some non-zero value in this or that situation. But after 10 years in semiconductors, holy smokes is it the worst possible thing in the world for workers. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5600 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 03 2025 04:03 Mohdoo wrote: I don't know a single person who would not pick strawberries for 300K/year. People work on oil rigs. There are some truly heinous and deeply unsafe jobs that are done by Americans. People turning down $15/hour or even $25/hour makes sense. My point is just that Americans do jobs wayyyy less enjoyable than picking strawberries. If the farmer just kept increasing the pay each week, someone would have applied. If it turns out she can't afford the wage people require to do the work, it turns out she's a shitty business owner and she ought to go out of business. I am particularly firm in my dismissal of H1B because my industry (semiconductor manufacturing) has insanely high standards for recruiting and will turn down tons and tons of extremely good candidates in favor of someone who is truly extraordinary. Then at the same time, we will also have a fleet of terrible H1Bs. The difference in work is staggering. All the while great candidates are turned down. Its a gigantic mess and incredibly clearly busted in my industry. I don't doubt H1B has some non-zero value in this or that situation. But after 10 years in semiconductors, holy smokes is it the worst possible thing in the world for workers. People would rather make less money if that means not picking strawberries. I'm not kidding, this is the reality of the situation. Americans simply don't care to do this kind of job. It's a really tough job, not something you do for fun. This is not another instance of the farmers not being willing to pay more, or being shitty business owners. They pay a lot better than McDonalds. You can find plenty of articles about this topic. I can't find the video anymore of the female farmer, so this'll do: https://www.latimes.com/local/great-reads/la-me-strawberry-pick-20130503-dto-htmlstory.html | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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micronesia
United States24777 Posts
On January 03 2025 04:03 Mohdoo wrote: I don't know a single person who would not pick strawberries for 300K/year. Me. I mean, I might try it once for the experience and to eat a few fresh strawberries, but I'm not doing it for 300k when I can do a much preferable job for 1/4 or 1/3 or 2/3 that income (like I do now with my white collar job). | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26972 Posts
On January 03 2025 08:07 micronesia wrote: Me. I mean, I might try it once for the experience and to eat a few fresh strawberries, but I'm not doing it for 300k when I can do a much preferable job for 1/4 or 1/3 or 2/3 that income (like I do now with my white collar job). Aye most of the real long-timers I know in one of my former gigs have pretty brutal physical issues nowadays Doesn’t have to be insanely physical arduous for one to develop back problems, or fucked knees or what have you. Adds up over time Saved me a gym membership for years doing physical retail work | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On January 03 2025 06:44 Elroi wrote: Mohdoo, why is that? are you forced to hire people from abroad for some reason or is it cheaper? Why not just hire the exceptional people without H1B? There's a few very unsavory aspects to this situation. 1: H1B is way cheaper. Sometimes they are making half the salary of someone else. And more supply of workers means less demand for workers and everyone else is paid less too because of that. 2: If an H1B worker is laid off or fired, they have 60 days to find a new employer or else they get deported. A semiconductor manufacturing engineer's interview process is extensive. It is rare for someone to be hired as an H1B within 60 days of being laid off. H1B workers getting laid off can mean their dream of living in the US is dead forever. So they are incredibly productive. They aren't idiots. Even if their output per hour is less than other engineers, when you literally work 80-90 hours per week, you get a lot done. 3: Layoffs happen all the time in tech. Some companies even have systems where they just always layoff the bottom 20% every so often. H1B engineers fight like its life or death to keep their jobs. Since companies place an H1B worker in each team, everyone else on that team is competing against them and they need to try to work as much as possible to keep up. So even if we ignore the fact that H1B workers are way cheaper, they have enormous secondary effects that benefit employers and harm workers. | ||
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Material-Cheetah3526
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18303 Posts
On January 03 2025 08:20 Lmui wrote: End-of-season in BC, a lot of blueberry farmers let people go in and it's free blueberry picking because the remaining fruit isn't worth having people/machinery collect it. If you've ever gone and done a 1-2h picking session for a couple pounds of berries, you'll realize that it's a pretty tiring job, nevermind doing it for long hours, during peak summertime. And blueberries are a walk in the park compared to strawberries, which are (1) tougher to pick, (2) even lower down, and (3) have leaves with hairs that irritate the skin. Blackberries are another fun one. As a teenager I did a bunch of odd jobs like that. Worst by a good while was picking and sorting roses, but it also paid the best. It was . mostly teenagers and migrants doing the work. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18303 Posts
On January 03 2025 09:26 Mohdoo wrote: There's a few very unsavory aspects to this situation. 1: H1B is way cheaper. Sometimes they are making half the salary of someone else. And more supply of workers means less demand for workers and everyone else is paid less too because of that. 2: If an H1B worker is laid off or fired, they have 60 days to find a new employer or else they get deported. A semiconductor manufacturing engineer's interview process is extensive. It is rare for someone to be hired as an H1B within 60 days of being laid off. H1B workers getting laid off can mean their dream of living in the US is dead forever. So they are incredibly productive. They aren't idiots. Even if their output per hour is less than other engineers, when you literally work 80-90 hours per week, you get a lot done. 3: Layoffs happen all the time in tech. Some companies even have systems where they just always layoff the bottom 20% every so often. H1B engineers fight like its life or death to keep their jobs. Since companies place an H1B worker in each team, everyone else on that team is competing against them and they need to try to work as much as possible to keep up. So even if we ignore the fact that H1B workers are way cheaper, they have enormous secondary effects that benefit employers and harm workers. Whenever people say layoffs happen frequently at the same company in tech, it must either be a US thing, or there are specific shitty companies around that do that. So far, the only company I worked at where there was a round of layoffs was Samsung and it was due to financial circumstances, but I'd also not say the overall culture was good in any case. Since then every company I've been at has been at wit's end to keep their employees. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5181 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 03 2025 18:44 Uldridge wrote: It seems that, based on Mohdoos claims about strawberry picking, he doesn't have much of a clue about working conditions and employer-employee dynamics. For instance, getting a higher education high specialty person up to speed and worked in every so often (20% of your work force!?) is very costly and a hassle I think no company ever wants to deal with actually. What an HR mess that thing has to be. Exception: all these contracts are temporary and are renewed every year. Seems ridiculous still as you want a stable workforce. Experience and specialization gives your busines flexibility and reliability. Isn't the annual 10-20% layoff thing an established practice since the 2000s? That's what I heard from business owners themselves. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5181 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 03 2025 20:35 Uldridge wrote: Are you talking solely about tech or every sector? Not every single sector, but also not only tech. Basically every sector where they get away with threatening individual workers with mass layoffs so they collectively become more productive. | ||
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