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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
The most obvious way to protect citizens from loan sharks is the government sporadically taking responsibility to repay of a portion of the liability of those indebted to loan sharks. This will neither encourage loan sharking nor volunteering for fiscally questionable debts.
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
On November 28 2024 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
90% of University undergrad is a BS waste of time. It is hilarious how bad the average American University student is with basic arithmetic and rudimentary math. The great thing is... its easy to quickly test math ability during a job interview. Who needs these "higher learning institutions"?
Happy Thanksgiving!
Well then employers should do that then. I’ve long advocated for the ability to just sit professional exams and pay a fee, we have incredible resources available to us in the modern age. But most do not offer this facility
Many, many do not and gate all sorts of jobs behind the degree gate, many I would agree do not need to be. Ultimately my opinion on the matter doesn’t really count if that’s the lay of the land.
On November 28 2024 23:29 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 23:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 28 2024 22:59 Razyda wrote:bolded - That is factually incorrect. If you voluntarily take a loan/mortgage it is only fair to be obligated to pay it back. What is unfair is to erase debt of some of the debtors, but not erase the debt of others. People also take loans from loan sharks. Do you think those are fair? In short: If they taken voluntarily and conditions of such loan are known beforehand, then yes.
Feeding on to the prior point, I mean there’s a voluntary aspect sure, but it’s not entirely divorced from other conditions and considerations either.
Or, looking at it another way, younger folks are kinda getting shafted in two domains versus their parents’ generation or beyond. Student loans and housing.
Either one does something about it or it’s perpetuating some pretty unfair conditions on this and presumably subsequent generations.
My preference would be more radical college reform that drags costs back down to being comparable, so that a younger person no longer has to be straddled with much more debt than their forebears.
But in the seeming absence of that it’s really just picking which you prioritise in being unfair to. And I know which way I’d go here
Older folks get their arses out and vote, which really helps them as a bloc but my god they’re incredibly indulged, in the US and the UK as well. You can’t touch basically anything that they benefit from, but it’s certainly not from a real consideration of fairness
Belated happy cake day by the way!
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On November 29 2024 00:09 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
90% of University undergrad is a BS waste of time. It is hilarious how bad the average American University student is with basic arithmetic and rudimentary math. The great thing is... its easy to quickly test math ability during a job interview. Who needs these "higher learning institutions"?
Happy Thanksgiving! Well then employers should do that then. I’ve long advocated for the ability to just sit professional exams and pay a fee, we have incredible resources available to us in the modern age. But most do not offer this facility
That is precisely how the actuarial profession has worked for decades. No formal education is required to become a "software engineer". and again, Canada's best school has you working full time just as much as attending classes AFTER the first 8 months in the place.
The traditional in-school for 8 months every year for a 4 year degree is a relic of the 1970s. This model is great for teenagers afraid of adulthood. I and all my friends were certainly scared to death of adulthood when we were 18... so it has some great emotional appeal. In reality, the traditional 4 year program is an obsolete model for developing teenagers into adults.
Step #1 for any teenager: do not attend a 4 year academic-only institution.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2024/10/23/good-news-for-us-colleges-enrollment-is-up-29-nationwide/
https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/college-enrollment-decline/
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
If every entry level software job I’m currently applying for has a stated baseline degree requirement, how does one get in the door without one? It may be quite different up in North America, that’s how it is here.
Exceptional hobbyist programmers can still find a way, most people aren’t exceptional hobbyists programmers. It’s much more of a regular job, there’s much more work available than there used to be. As that perception has shifted from it being the purview of mega nerds to just a regular gig like accountancy or law, so too have hiring practices slightly changed too.
Agreed that academic-only programs have problems. Ours has a full year in the middle where you’re working in industry and that’s absolutely invaluable
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On November 28 2024 22:59 Razyda wrote:bolded - That is factually incorrect. If you voluntarily take a loan/mortgage it is only fair to be obligated to pay it back. What is unfair is to erase debt of some of the debtors, but not erase the debt of others.
I'm glad you agree.
In that case, it would be fair now to cancel all student loan debt, considering the amount of PPP loans were forgiven the past few years.
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Regarding student debt, you also have the opportunity to default on other debts but you don't get to default on student debt (at least you don't here in Canada and I'm pretty sure it is the same in the USA). I know the downsides of this personally, as I ran into financial difficulties after 3 years of university. I studied civil engineering (structural and geotechnical with side courses in project management), but I didn't finish. I was too broke to finish. I tried everything I could, but I couldn't continue.
I have finished paying my debt back now that I'm in my late 30's. By the time I finished paying back my debt, I had spent ~$65 000 CAD after interest and added fees (which were incurred during those times where my financial situation was awful) on my government loans. That's not including personal loans and credit cards that I've also repaid.
I would have loved an opportunity to default on it or have access to some kind of debt relief like what some people are able to get now. I started my 20's tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and with nothing to show for the 24 months I spent in class. It sucked to be so screwed financially, so I'm happy to see that people now are getting opportunities that I wish I could have had.
After I dropped out, I had a hell of a time getting any job, and I suspect that was because I had included the engineering education on my resume. It seemed like nobody wanted to hire me with that on my resume. It took me a few months to realize this was holding me back. Once I removed it from my resume I was able to get some minimum wage employment..... I bounced around a bunch of different places until I landed a job at a car dealership where my most important task was getting coffees for management. I took opportunities to move up internally as they came up, but absolutely none of my education at university helped with this. I'm now in a different industry and doing well financially compared to where I was, but damn it's been a rough road, and I still don't have a reasonable path to retirement by 65. My girlfriend and I can't even afford to own a home in the city I've spent the last 16 years in, and she's the breadwinner between the two of us.
I was pushed into going to school by teachers, my guidance councillor, family, friends, etc. Everyone seemed to be equating the education system at the time to their experiences with it 20-40 years earlier. Yea, I'm the one who signed the paperwork, but I had no real understanding of the risks I was taking, and was trusting people that I thought were more informed than I was..... I took that advice, and ultimately, I'm the one who had to suffer the consequences of it. The system sucks, and the whole "you took out the loan so pay back your loan" argument pisses me off because of how nuanced these situations are. People are screwed by this debt that society has pushed them into taking, and this is a way to help them.
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On November 29 2024 00:09 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
90% of University undergrad is a BS waste of time. It is hilarious how bad the average American University student is with basic arithmetic and rudimentary math. The great thing is... its easy to quickly test math ability during a job interview. Who needs these "higher learning institutions"?
Happy Thanksgiving! Well then employers should do that then. I’ve long advocated for the ability to just sit professional exams and pay a fee, we have incredible resources available to us in the modern age. But most do not offer this facility Many, many do not and gate all sorts of jobs behind the degree gate, many I would agree do not need to be. Ultimately my opinion on the matter doesn’t really count if that’s the lay of the land. Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 23:29 Razyda wrote:On November 28 2024 23:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 28 2024 22:59 Razyda wrote:bolded - That is factually incorrect. If you voluntarily take a loan/mortgage it is only fair to be obligated to pay it back. What is unfair is to erase debt of some of the debtors, but not erase the debt of others. People also take loans from loan sharks. Do you think those are fair? In short: If they taken voluntarily and conditions of such loan are known beforehand, then yes. Feeding on to the prior point, I mean there’s a voluntary aspect sure, but it’s not entirely divorced from other conditions and considerations either. Or, looking at it another way, younger folks are kinda getting shafted in two domains versus their parents’ generation or beyond. Student loans and housing. Either one does something about it or it’s perpetuating some pretty unfair conditions on this and presumably subsequent generations. My preference would be more radical college reform that drags costs back down to being comparable, so that a younger person no longer has to be straddled with much more debt than their forebears. But in the seeming absence of that it’s really just picking which you prioritise in being unfair to. And I know which way I’d go here Older folks get their arses out and vote, which really helps them as a bloc but my god they’re incredibly indulged, in the US and the UK as well. You can’t touch basically anything that they benefit from, but it’s certainly not from a real consideration of fairness Belated happy cake day by the way!
Bolded - we disagree here. I think education should be free.
On November 29 2024 00:46 Mikau313 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 22:59 Razyda wrote:bolded - That is factually incorrect. If you voluntarily take a loan/mortgage it is only fair to be obligated to pay it back. What is unfair is to erase debt of some of the debtors, but not erase the debt of others. I'm glad you agree. In that case, it would be fair now to cancel all student loan debt, considering the amount of PPP loans were forgiven the past few years.
Dont know much about those, but:
From Wikipedia it seems like forgiveness of PPP loan was part of the agreement?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycheck_Protection_Program
"The loan may be partially or fully forgiven if the business keeps its employee counts and employee wages stable."
If that's the case and conditions were met then that seems fair to me, if it is not the case then it should not be forgiven.
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On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source
Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again.
However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term.
Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads.
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
On November 29 2024 02:04 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 00:09 WombaT wrote:On November 28 2024 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
90% of University undergrad is a BS waste of time. It is hilarious how bad the average American University student is with basic arithmetic and rudimentary math. The great thing is... its easy to quickly test math ability during a job interview. Who needs these "higher learning institutions"?
Happy Thanksgiving! Well then employers should do that then. I’ve long advocated for the ability to just sit professional exams and pay a fee, we have incredible resources available to us in the modern age. But most do not offer this facility Many, many do not and gate all sorts of jobs behind the degree gate, many I would agree do not need to be. Ultimately my opinion on the matter doesn’t really count if that’s the lay of the land. On November 28 2024 23:29 Razyda wrote:On November 28 2024 23:16 Magic Powers wrote:On November 28 2024 22:59 Razyda wrote:bolded - That is factually incorrect. If you voluntarily take a loan/mortgage it is only fair to be obligated to pay it back. What is unfair is to erase debt of some of the debtors, but not erase the debt of others. People also take loans from loan sharks. Do you think those are fair? In short: If they taken voluntarily and conditions of such loan are known beforehand, then yes. Feeding on to the prior point, I mean there’s a voluntary aspect sure, but it’s not entirely divorced from other conditions and considerations either. Or, looking at it another way, younger folks are kinda getting shafted in two domains versus their parents’ generation or beyond. Student loans and housing. Either one does something about it or it’s perpetuating some pretty unfair conditions on this and presumably subsequent generations. My preference would be more radical college reform that drags costs back down to being comparable, so that a younger person no longer has to be straddled with much more debt than their forebears. But in the seeming absence of that it’s really just picking which you prioritise in being unfair to. And I know which way I’d go here Older folks get their arses out and vote, which really helps them as a bloc but my god they’re incredibly indulged, in the US and the UK as well. You can’t touch basically anything that they benefit from, but it’s certainly not from a real consideration of fairness Belated happy cake day by the way! Bolded - we disagree here. I think education should be free. Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 00:46 Mikau313 wrote:On November 28 2024 22:59 Razyda wrote:bolded - That is factually incorrect. If you voluntarily take a loan/mortgage it is only fair to be obligated to pay it back. What is unfair is to erase debt of some of the debtors, but not erase the debt of others. I'm glad you agree. In that case, it would be fair now to cancel all student loan debt, considering the amount of PPP loans were forgiven the past few years. Dont know much about those, but: From Wikipedia it seems like forgiveness of PPP loan was part of the agreement? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycheck_Protection_Program"The loan may be partially or fully forgiven if the business keeps its employee counts and employee wages stable." If that's the case and conditions were met then that seems fair to me, if it is not the case then it should not be forgiven.
We don’t actually disagree, but US college costs are so insane, with vested interests that benefit from this, that I think the best you can realistically hope for in terms of user-end cost cutting is to reduce it considerably.
So I’m advocating from what I think is remotely realistic in that particular framework, I do think tertiary education should be free at the point of use myself.
But then do you not just end up in the same scenario, only ‘I paid my debts why do others get theirs absolved?’ for ‘I paid my debts, why are folks getting their education for free?’
Again, not a stance I personally agree with but isn’t it a pretty similar scenario?
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On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads.
Completely agree, right now my company is trying to decide how much to import. The regular amount, way more or way less are all on the table and instead of relying on data, history, or our projected sales based on customer data. The main concern is what will happen with currency and tariffs based on the whim of one very unpredictable man. It felt like gambling, I can't imagine big companies making multi year capital projects right now when anything and everything could change. We get about half our stuff from the US and right now it is one persons job to find alternatives. We have suppliers floating locked in price contracts but no one even knows what direction to hedge. A bunch of experienced people with no idea what to do next. Higher prices are not even close to as scary as the unknown. Because a drastic price fall could also mess us up as if we over bought we would be uncompetitive with those who risked it.
Even industries that end up completely untouched by the trade war are going to go ultra conservative as far as spending capital, which is going to have big impacts down the road.
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On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads.
In 1992, Mulroney said Bush was acting like a tin pot dictator. This type of bluster has been going on for decades.
If Canada has a street smart, well informed negotiation team the country will be fine. It will be business as usual.
If not, watch for Trump to make a statement like this: "do you know in Vancouver and throughout the province north of Washington state you can legally possess fentanyl".
I think there will be immense pressure on BC to criminalize possession of cocaine, heroin, and fentanyl.
I am not certain Justin Trudeau's negotiation team is a cohesive unit. Previous PMs were much better power brokers primarily because they had power to broker. The Trudeau regime is falling apart at the seams.
During the negotiations of the FTA and then NAFTA the reigning PM had majority control of parliament. Mulroney and Chretien assembled top notch talent to negotiation with the USA. Those agreements ended up working great for Canada. This is not the case now. Canada/Liberals need to get Bob Rae on this....STAT.
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
On November 29 2024 02:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. In 1992, Mulroney said Bush was acting like a tin pot dictator. This type of bluster has been going on for decades. If Canada has a street smart well, informed negotiation team the country will be fine. It will be business as usual. If not, watch for Trump to make a statement like this: "do you know in Vancouver and throughout the province north of Washington state you can legally possess fentanyl". I think there will be immense pressure on BC to criminalize possession of cocaine, heroin, and fentanyl. I am not certain Justin Trudeau's negotiation team is a cohesive unit. Previous PMs were much better power brokers primarily because they had power to broker. The Trudeau regime is falling apart at the seams.
I’m really unsure how all these observations actually fit together, or what your ultimate conclusions are here
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On November 29 2024 02:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. In 1992, Mulroney said Bush was acting like a tin pot dictator. This type of bluster has been going on for decades. If Canada has a street smart well, informed negotiation team the country will be fine. It will be business as usual. If not, watch for Trump to make a statement like this: "do you know in Vancouver and throughout the province north of Washington state you can legally possess fentanyl". I think there will be immense pressure on BC to criminalize possession of cocaine, heroin, and fentanyl. I am not certain Justin Trudeau's negotiation team is a cohesive unit. Previous PMs were much better power brokers primarily because they had power to broker. The Trudeau regime is falling apart at the seams. During the negotiations of the FTA and then NAFTA the reigning PM had majority control of parliament. Those agreements ended up working great for Canada. This is not the case now. Canada/Liberals need to get Bob Rae on this....STAT.
Except this time is different. Trump imposed tariffs last time he was in office. He campaigned on this kind of thing. He was elected via the electoral college. He received the majority of the popular vote. Republicans gained control of congress to assist him in his policy goals. Republicans gained control of the senate to also assist him in his policy goals. He has already created a supermajority in the supreme court.
The voters of the USA either want this type of thing, or at least view this as less bad than giving control of any part of the system to the democrats, because they gave him a mandate to do this through the ballot box. It is not the same as 1992.
And I agree, Trudeau is a dumbass. However, I don't want to see us just capitulate to Trump because Trudeau is a dumbass. That'll be worse for us.
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On November 29 2024 03:04 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 02:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. In 1992, Mulroney said Bush was acting like a tin pot dictator. This type of bluster has been going on for decades. If Canada has a street smart well, informed negotiation team the country will be fine. It will be business as usual. If not, watch for Trump to make a statement like this: "do you know in Vancouver and throughout the province north of Washington state you can legally possess fentanyl". I think there will be immense pressure on BC to criminalize possession of cocaine, heroin, and fentanyl. I am not certain Justin Trudeau's negotiation team is a cohesive unit. Previous PMs were much better power brokers primarily because they had power to broker. The Trudeau regime is falling apart at the seams. I’m really unsure how all these observations actually fit together, or what your ultimate conclusions are here
Canada is in big trouble. They have an intellectual lightweight leading a team of weak players.
Trump can already smell the blood on the water.
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
On November 29 2024 03:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 03:04 WombaT wrote:On November 29 2024 02:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. In 1992, Mulroney said Bush was acting like a tin pot dictator. This type of bluster has been going on for decades. If Canada has a street smart well, informed negotiation team the country will be fine. It will be business as usual. If not, watch for Trump to make a statement like this: "do you know in Vancouver and throughout the province north of Washington state you can legally possess fentanyl". I think there will be immense pressure on BC to criminalize possession of cocaine, heroin, and fentanyl. I am not certain Justin Trudeau's negotiation team is a cohesive unit. Previous PMs were much better power brokers primarily because they had power to broker. The Trudeau regime is falling apart at the seams. I’m really unsure how all these observations actually fit together, or what your ultimate conclusions are here Canada is in big trouble.
Unlike you to say that. I just don’t see much link between potential American trade tariffs and British Columbia’s policy on drug decriminalisation
A potentially tricky period to negotiate no doubt, I just don’t see how A and B are especially connected here
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On November 29 2024 03:10 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 03:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 29 2024 03:04 WombaT wrote:On November 29 2024 02:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. In 1992, Mulroney said Bush was acting like a tin pot dictator. This type of bluster has been going on for decades. If Canada has a street smart well, informed negotiation team the country will be fine. It will be business as usual. If not, watch for Trump to make a statement like this: "do you know in Vancouver and throughout the province north of Washington state you can legally possess fentanyl". I think there will be immense pressure on BC to criminalize possession of cocaine, heroin, and fentanyl. I am not certain Justin Trudeau's negotiation team is a cohesive unit. Previous PMs were much better power brokers primarily because they had power to broker. The Trudeau regime is falling apart at the seams. I’m really unsure how all these observations actually fit together, or what your ultimate conclusions are here Canada is in big trouble. Unlike you to say that. I just don’t see much link between potential American trade tariffs and British Columbia’s policy on drug decriminalisation A potentially tricky period to negotiate no doubt, I just don’t see how A and B are especially connected here
Trump can smell the blood in the water. He has absolute power with all 3 Republican branches. Trudeau got elected with the lowest popular vote in Canadian history.
Trump's team will out negotiate Trudeau's team with the guillotine of tariffs hanging over their heads.
Chretien>Mulroney>J. Trudeau.
The era from 1946 to 2010 where Canada had a standard of living similar to the USA ain't coming back any time soon.
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
But what’s trade got to do with fentanyl and cocaine decriminalisation? Perhaps there is some link but in the absence of an explanation I don’t know what that is.
Is the average USian’s standard of living really that much worse than the average Canadian’s? Many of us Euros wouldn’t take the trade I can tell you that much
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On November 29 2024 02:50 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. Completely agree, right now my company is trying to decide how much to import. The regular amount, way more or way less are all on the table and instead of relying on data, history, or our projected sales based on customer data. The main concern is what will happen with currency and tariffs based on the whim of one very unpredictable man. It felt like gambling, I can't imagine big companies making multi year capital projects right now when anything and everything could change. We get about half our stuff from the US and right now it is one persons job to find alternatives. We have suppliers floating locked in price contracts but no one even knows what direction to hedge. A bunch of experienced people with no idea what to do next. Higher prices are not even close to as scary as the unknown. Because a drastic price fall could also mess us up as if we over bought we would be uncompetitive with those who risked it. Even industries that end up completely untouched by the trade war are going to go ultra conservative as far as spending capital, which is going to have big impacts down the road.
I'm in a similar boat. We've had discussions on how we're going to proceed, and so far, the plan is to ignore it as a possibility and deal with it once something actually happens. We have so many longer-term contracts with US companies that would be affected by this that there seems to be no way to effectively plan for it other than hoping for the best..... We're trying to shore up any upcoming financial milestones to try to mitigate any effects, but there's nothing else we can really do yet.....
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Northern Ireland26802 Posts
On November 29 2024 03:26 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 02:50 Billyboy wrote:On November 29 2024 02:21 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 08:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 05:15 Impervious wrote:On November 28 2024 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 28 2024 02:21 Sadist wrote:
Securing the canadian border? What world are we living in? Canadian leaders already conceded. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/we-need-to-do-better-canadian-leaders-respond-to-trump-s-border-concerns-1.7124308Another W for the former WWE Personality and TV Show Host. The Canadian leaders are doing the right thing. If Mexico's leadership is talking tough I am not sure that is the right move. Asmongold joked recently... We need a wall between Canada and the USA to prevent the influx of all thr unethically subsidized Quebec made garbage video games from getting into America In conclusion, Canada needs to do better. Step #1 is a smarter PM and smarter Finance Minister. The 2 intellectual light weights running the country are in over their heads. As a Canadian I'm pretty dissatisfied with how our leaders are handling this right now. ... Trump campaigned on doing stuff like this again. And enough of y'all voted for him that it seems like you want this stupidity to continue for at least another 4 years. Thanks..... i moved to the USA permanently ~12 years ago. you might as well MAID me if you ever catch me taking the word "you" and the word "all" and contracting them. You might feel dissatisfied, however, I think it is the correct course of action. Doug Ford fired back slightly stating Mexico and Canada are not the same and should not lumped in together. Even the BC Premier folded like a lawn chair today. I guess that's the end of experimenting with the decriminalization of Fentanyl in BC. Thanksgiving is now upon us. I'd like to remind Americans that similar to many great American things from Basketball to the Telephone ... Canada invented Thanksgiving. Source Practically speaking, Trump is acting like a bully in this situation. He's done it before, and and while he does often get his way, it's also shown that fighting back is effective. We did it before, and from my perspective, it'll be better for us if we do it again. However, even if these tariffs don't come into play, and Trump backs down on this, we Canadians still have to consider the possibility of him doing this at any time over the next 4 years while he is in power. And considering he campaigned on possibly doing exactly this, and the majority of American voters voting for this, there's the possibility of a future president doing this as well, even if Trump doesn't during his 4 year term. Singh, of all people, has already suggested a push towards isolationism policies here in Canada, and that Trudeau should setup a war room to prepare a response. As much as I think he's usually out to lunch regarding policy, I think he's right about this. We've become too friendly with the USA and our economy is too intertwined. We need to start to do things to separate ourselves from the US economy so we don't have the threat of a trade war like this constantly looming over our heads. Completely agree, right now my company is trying to decide how much to import. The regular amount, way more or way less are all on the table and instead of relying on data, history, or our projected sales based on customer data. The main concern is what will happen with currency and tariffs based on the whim of one very unpredictable man. It felt like gambling, I can't imagine big companies making multi year capital projects right now when anything and everything could change. We get about half our stuff from the US and right now it is one persons job to find alternatives. We have suppliers floating locked in price contracts but no one even knows what direction to hedge. A bunch of experienced people with no idea what to do next. Higher prices are not even close to as scary as the unknown. Because a drastic price fall could also mess us up as if we over bought we would be uncompetitive with those who risked it. Even industries that end up completely untouched by the trade war are going to go ultra conservative as far as spending capital, which is going to have big impacts down the road. I'm in a similar boat. We've had discussions on how we're going to proceed, and so far, the plan is to ignore it as a possibility and deal with it once something actually happens. We have so many longer-term contracts with US companies that would be affected by this that there seems to be no way to effectively plan for it other than hoping for the best..... We're trying to shore up any upcoming financial milestones to try to mitigate any effects, but there's nothing else we can really do yet.....
Predictability has a quality in and of itself.
I had a manager in a former job once who would bounce between borderline love-in cordiality, and brutal hostility, with essentially no obvious triggers or rationales whatsoever. I actively preferred the managers I knew were always hardarses to that, because I could plan around knowing that.
The US feels a little similar now, it’s sorta relative business as usual, except every 4 years maybe it’s Trump and it isn’t and how do you do long-term planning as a business with that volatility?
Assuming he does proceed with all these tariffs, and I’m still not convinced he ultimately will. But even then, businesses have to plan for various eventualities
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Peak humanity was always going to be an existential crisis followed by the embracing of nonsense.
Goes for individuals as well as for societies.
Nowadays the belief in the impossible sells when it mitigates the dissonance so well.
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EPT
