EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4076
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
| ||
|
Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28904 Posts
| ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18453 Posts
On October 02 2023 20:14 Liquid`Drone wrote: That is fair. Is there data over how much a state like Illinois pays in federal taxes? (Obv not disputing that it is more than what EU countries pay to the EU, just curious what the relationship is) Sticking with the Netherlands as an example, https://tradingeconomics.com/netherlands/government-spending this seems like the best data I can find easily, so it has ~50b per quarter budget, or an annual budget of approximately 200b. Paying 8b to the EU is peanuts. That's 4% of the government budget. This overall budget seems a bit bigger than Illinois, which had an annual budget of 122b for 2023, according to: https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/projects/state-fiscal-briefs/illinois. In 2021 it received 153b in revenue, of which roughly 24% (for some reason it avoids giving the exact number), or 37b is from federal transfer. The federal tax revenue in Illinois for 2019 was 162b (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state). Now here I have to place a caveat: in 2019 the economy was booming, and in 2021 the economy was in the middle of the Covid crisis, so it is probably very very wrong to just compare these numbers straight up, but I couldn't find the state budget for 2019 or the federal revenue for 2021, so it's the data we have: 162b - 37b = 125b in net contribution, which corresponds to ~103% of the state budget. Of course, this is also comparing apples to oranges, but if RenSC2 wishes the USA was more like a loose union of fully independent nations like the EU than a single federal state like the USA or Spain, then it's probably about as close as we'll get. Although we should not forget that federal taxes pay for many more things than just federal transfers to states. For starters, there was a defense budget of 705B USD in 2021. I'm guessing there is also a good amount of federal infrastructure, such as dams, roads and railways that go through Illinois, and as Introvert likes to point out, there are costs related to the federal debt, which in 2023 amounted to 652B USD. As an independent nation, Illinois would need their own equivalent of these federal programs, just as the Netherlands has (and the EU does not: the EU does not have an army nor directly build or maintain any infrastructure. It has, however, started to borrow money, and I'm sure some part of what NL has to contribute to the EU goes to paying off interest on EU issued debt). | ||
|
Liquid`Drone
Norway28904 Posts
| ||
KwarK
United States44355 Posts
| ||
|
Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
| ||
|
micronesia
United States24803 Posts
| ||
|
Simberto
Germany12017 Posts
On October 03 2023 10:24 micronesia wrote: I saw that too. I remember the defense of that mistake being something about how figures of square footage are very variable and subject to methodology differences? I mean, I could see that argument for a 10% error, maybe. Maybe he was counting all the square footage, not just the floor? Walls and ceiling also have an area that you can calculate. | ||
|
ZeroByte13
799 Posts
Can happen to anyone. | ||
|
KwarK
United States44355 Posts
“I didn’t lie because my financials said that they hadn’t been independently audited and there was a disclaimer saying that others may reach different conclusions” It’s an interesting defence. Essentially it argues that of course he lied but he included a disclaimer saying it wasn’t factual and so does that even count as lying? Spoiler, it does. The disclaimer protects you from differences in methodology and treatment, not from material assertions of things that have no basis. Your independent appraisal might come back with a different number than the bank’s appraisal, that’s okay. But if your appraisal says $10m and you write $50m then that’s not okay. | ||
|
micronesia
United States24803 Posts
| ||
|
Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On October 04 2023 04:36 micronesia wrote: Will this effort to oust McCarthy as speaker succeed? My guess is yes, but I have no particular basis. Dude its the most hazardous shit ever. The freedom caucus is going after McCarthy beacuse he worked with democrats and will now remove McCarthy by working with democrats. We're going to have Speakership Vote Chaos 2: congressional bugaloo. Gatz is going firebrand attacking republicans one by one by one as they stand up to support McCarthy. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22638 Posts
No Republican is going to support the Democrats in installing a Democrat speaker. So instead of 'helping' McCarthy by abstaining and removing the only real leverage the crazies like Gaetz had, opening the way for perhaps a more bipartisan budget bill, we now get a House that will again be stuck without a speaker for god knows how long? They barely got McCarthy across the line, I doubt anyone else is eagerly awaiting to take control of this children's creche. So onwards to 16+ votes for the next speaker? Or is it a case of Democrats thinking they can help elect a more moderate Republican who is willing to betray his party and create bipartisan bills? | ||
|
Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On October 04 2023 04:53 Gorsameth wrote: If the Democrats all vote to oust him then yes it will probably succeed. But I'm wondering what the Democratic game plan here is? The crazies still hold power in the GOP, they can't elect a new speaker without placating them the same way McCarthy did. And by helping Gaetz kick our McCarthy their position is only made stronger. No Republican is going to support the Democrats in installing a Democrat speaker. So instead of 'helping' McCarthy by abstaining and removing the only real leverage the crazies like Gaetz had, opening the way for perhaps a more bipartisan budget bill, we now get a House that will again be stuck without a speaker for god knows how long? They barely got McCarthy across the line, I doubt anyone else is eagerly awaiting to take control of this children's creche. So onwards to 16+ votes for the next speaker? Dems don't need to win this they just need the gop to lose this. They can be satisfied with any GOP speaker that needs their help to get the job. If we get another 16+ votes it'll show an intensive level of chaos and infighting within the GOP that will be used on the campaign trail in a few months. If fourty days pass they just need a handful of republicans to cross the line and keep the government rolling on. Votes happening now. Its 216 to 210 to remove him at the moment it may have happened. My god if Tom emmer becomes speaker. I think its fully happened wow another day of history. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
On October 04 2023 06:16 JimmiC wrote: He’s out according to NPR, how many round until the next one? https://www.npr.org/2023/10/03/1203310040/mccarthy-gaetz-speaker-news The continuing resolution that was passed funded the government for 45 days, so the House Republicans do have a sort of deadline to get their shit together, because "The government shut down because the Republican party couldn't stop infighting long enough to legislate" is not going to endear them to voters. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland27460 Posts
On October 04 2023 05:04 Sermokala wrote: Dems don't need to win this they just need the gop to lose this. They can be satisfied with any GOP speaker that needs their help to get the job. If we get another 16+ votes it'll show an intensive level of chaos and infighting within the GOP that will be used on the campaign trail in a few months. If fourty days pass they just need a handful of republicans to cross the line and keep the government rolling on. Votes happening now. Its 216 to 210 to remove him at the moment it may have happened. My god if Tom emmer becomes speaker. I think its fully happened wow another day of history. It still feels very much like a playing with fire kind of deal. Unless you can get more political value for having some undoubtedly crazier replacement in place than you’re losing with someone you can vaguely negotiate with, which in this specific instance I’m unsure they can. | ||
|
gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On October 04 2023 08:50 WombaT wrote: It still feels very much like a playing with fire kind of deal. Unless you can get more political value for having some undoubtedly crazier replacement in place than you’re losing with someone you can vaguely negotiate with, which in this specific instance I’m unsure they can. Why would they even save McCarthy? The next person in the speaker's seat will have to negotiate eventually in the same way that McCarthy was forced to. The underlying politics doesn't change no matter who is speaker. | ||
| ||
