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On June 25 2022 17:45 RvB wrote:
As a European there's something I don't understand. What surprised me is that the ruling was 6-3 in favour of abolishing the federal right to abortion but then why did it take so long for the ruling to occur? As far as I know there's been a 5-4 conservative majority for at least 2 decades now so why didn't they throw out Roe vs Wade two decades ago?
In his concurrence John Roberts indicates he didn't want to throw out Roe/Casey. I don't think he is really happy with this decision but it was going to happen with or without him. Remember he sided with the 4 liberal justices to preserve the individual mandate in Obamacare. I don't think he likes to stir up shit in the same way that Thomas and Alito are probably giddy with what they just did.
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Talked to my parents today and my long time Republican brother came up. He is pissed about the ruling and won't be voting Republican in the future. I'm hoping there are more like him and this ruling helps the Dems win more seats come November. I doubt it will, but seeing people I know switch their votes gives me some hope.
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I'm amazed that there's anyone on the Right willing to switch their votes at this point. Like this is the line that goes too far. I know a majority of Americans have consistently been in favor of abortion rights, but also Republicans have been campaigning and strategizing and mobilizing to the specific end of outlawing, banning, and criminalizing abortion, for decades. I have to wonder what people have been expecting when they voted Republican all this time.
I'm not bemoaning the fact that people are turning back from the line of Fascism. But I just don't really get it at this point.
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The question is will it matter as the Republicans set themselves up for permanent minority rule.
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On June 27 2022 06:56 NewSunshine wrote:
I'm amazed that there's anyone on the Right willing to switch their votes at this point. Like this is the line that goes too far. I know a majority of Americans have consistently been in favor of abortion rights, but also Republicans have been campaigning and strategizing and mobilizing to the specific end of outlawing, banning, and criminalizing abortion, for decades. I have to wonder what people have been expecting when they voted Republican all this time.
I'm not bemoaning the fact that people are turning back from the line of Fascism. But I just don't really get it at this point.
At least in my brother's case, he personally benefitted more under Republican tax policies so that's where his vote went. He didn't think Republicans would ever actually do something about Roe V. Wade and thought it was just a talking point to keep the base engaged and voting.
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Northern Ireland25470 Posts
On June 26 2022 21:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2022 12:24 Zambrah wrote:On June 26 2022 10:32 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 26 2022 09:45 Zambrah wrote:
Yeah, its not nearly as bad as most people in America believe it is. Are we talking about China or America? We've got Nyxisto pointing out that if you don't do any political activism in China you'll be fine. What do you think is going to happen to you in America if you follow the leader exactly? People in America don’t know much about China, Nyxisto’s assessment is spot on. I can’t really parse what you’re trying to say in the second sentence. You're saying if you become a boot licker in China nothing bad will happen to you. If you become a boot licker in America nothing is going to happen to you either. If you're a minority maybe you need to move to a deep blue city and avoid sunset towns like Plasmid is pointing out, but some of you need a reality check on how unsafe America has become.
Despite not living there, decades of media and cultural exposure, chatting to many Americans, familiarity with the history and structures do fill some gaps.
I don’t feel myself, nor many of us really have a similar gauge on the Chinese experience. Invoking China tends to end up with the trading of what few talking points we do have.
My conception of safety in this domain would encompass material security, I can only really compare to my native land and experiences here.
YankbaT would have been bankrupt by medical expenses at 24, while also on the hook for student fees that not even bankruptcy get you out of. Royally, royally fucked
I mean I wouldn’t expect to be lynched or anything but I don’t think that’s where the bar should be set for an acceptable level of personal sense of safety and security.
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On June 27 2022 07:22 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2022 21:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 26 2022 12:24 Zambrah wrote:On June 26 2022 10:32 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On June 26 2022 09:45 Zambrah wrote:
Yeah, its not nearly as bad as most people in America believe it is. Are we talking about China or America? We've got Nyxisto pointing out that if you don't do any political activism in China you'll be fine. What do you think is going to happen to you in America if you follow the leader exactly? People in America don’t know much about China, Nyxisto’s assessment is spot on. I can’t really parse what you’re trying to say in the second sentence. You're saying if you become a boot licker in China nothing bad will happen to you. If you become a boot licker in America nothing is going to happen to you either. If you're a minority maybe you need to move to a deep blue city and avoid sunset towns like Plasmid is pointing out, but some of you need a reality check on how unsafe America has become. Despite not living there, decades of media and cultural exposure, chatting to many Americans, familiarity with the history and structures do fill some gaps. I don’t feel myself, nor many of us really have a similar gauge on the Chinese experience. Invoking China tends to end up with the trading of what few talking points we do have. My conception of safety in this domain would encompass material security, I can only really compare to my native land and experiences here. YankbaT would have been bankrupt by medical expenses at 24, while also on the hook for student fees that not even bankruptcy get you out of. Royally, royally fucked I mean I wouldn’t expect to be lynched or anything but I don’t think that’s where the bar should be set for an acceptable level of personal sense of safety and security.
The problem with this logic is that you're considering migrating to America as someone in the UK. YankbaT doesn't need thought because you would never choose to immigrate to America or China over Europe. The doomers derailing the thread with the worst aspects of America compared against the best parts of China doesn't change the logic that you'd still choose Europe.
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The problem is the parts of the US that are better than China are being aggressively eroded.
If youre going to live under a shitty authoritarian government why would anyone want to live under the one with way higher cost of living and a uniquely god awful healthcare situation?
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On June 27 2022 09:06 Zambrah wrote:
The problem is the parts of the US that are better than China are being aggressively eroded.
If youre going to live under a shitty authoritarian government why would anyone want to live under the one with way higher cost of living and a uniquely god awful healthcare situation?
What’s being eroded, even slightly, in Oregon? Decriminalized drug use, guaranteed parental leave, unrestricted abortion access, legalized weed. It’s not perfect by any means, but Oregon is doing well and shows no signs of regressing.
We have recall votes just like California and they get clobbered every time. Oregon ain’t going anywhere
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On June 27 2022 09:12 JimmiC wrote:
I think his point is when comes to escaping authoritatianism it makes no sense to go to where that particular part is currently much worse. You go somewhere with a functioning democracy and there are plenty to choose from.
Immigrating to Europe or Canada is not nearly that simple.
I brought up China because getting into and living in China isnt particularly hard.
Europe and Canada want you to have a degree, and particular skills, etc.
You can go to China on a tourist visa and work illegally and China doesnt really care. Do you speak english and look white? Congratulations, you can go to China and teach english and have a pretty good life for yourself, the kind of life thats much harder to have in America.
On June 27 2022 09:15 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2022 09:06 Zambrah wrote:
The problem is the parts of the US that are better than China are being aggressively eroded.
If youre going to live under a shitty authoritarian government why would anyone want to live under the one with way higher cost of living and a uniquely god awful healthcare situation? What’s being eroded, even slightly, in Oregon? Decriminalized drug use, guaranteed parental leave, unrestricted abortion access, legalized weed. It’s not perfect by any means, but Oregon is doing well and shows no signs of regressing. We have recall votes just like California and they get clobbered every time. Oregon ain’t going anywhere
You'll enjoy your negligible say in federal government as Republicans systematically gerrymander states and prevent people from voting so that they have, at worst, complete ability to nullify any potential piece of legislation. No state is going to be safe from a fascistic Republican party who have all three branches of government under their thumb.
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United States42778 Posts
On June 27 2022 09:15 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2022 09:06 Zambrah wrote:
The problem is the parts of the US that are better than China are being aggressively eroded.
If youre going to live under a shitty authoritarian government why would anyone want to live under the one with way higher cost of living and a uniquely god awful healthcare situation? What’s being eroded, even slightly, in Oregon? Decriminalized drug use, guaranteed parental leave, unrestricted abortion access, legalized weed. It’s not perfect by any means, but Oregon is doing well and shows no signs of regressing. We have recall votes just like California and they get clobbered every time. Oregon ain’t going anywhere
Trump set marshals on a political activist and bragged that they were told not to bother taking him alive. Being in a left of centre state doesn’t protect you from political violence from a fascist Federal government.
Nobody believes less in state’s rights than the authoritarian right. Your state cannot save you.
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If Republicans still end up re-taking Congress in November, there will be a nationwide abortion ban. It's going to happen. And that'll just be the start. It'll be a speedrun in unwinding and decimating rights for any American who isn't a straight, white, Christian cis man.
Fuck religious freedom, fuck women's rights, fuck access to healthcare, fuck financial and personal freedom, fuck your privacy. Fuck your rights. Vote Republican!
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Here's a clip from a protest Houston had a couple of days ago. Beto showed up and I was glad to see the crowd not take any lip service or empty promises from the Dems anymore.
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United States24690 Posts
On June 27 2022 11:30 NewSunshine wrote:
If Republicans still end up re-taking Congress in November, there will be a nationwide abortion ban. It's going to happen. And that'll just be the start. It'll be a speedrun in unwinding and decimating rights for any American who isn't a straight, white, Christian cis man.
Fuck religious freedom, fuck women's rights, fuck access to healthcare, fuck financial and personal freedom, fuck your privacy. Fuck your rights. Vote Republican!
Not disagreeing with your general message, but wouldn't Biden veto anything crazy? Isn't 2 years from now what we really would have to worry about in that regard? Or, do you think they may get a veto-proof majority?
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One thing I've noticed a lot this weekend is that a lot of newly radicalized people are rightfully angry and want change, but they don't know how to effectively make it happen. I cannot emphasize enough that there are so many organizations, networks, and groups throughout the US that have been building and planning alternatives and activism for years or even decades. Don't try to go it alone if you want change, you'll end up burning yourself out far too quickly. Join groups led by people of color and do what they ask because they know what needs to be done to make the most effective change and because if we don't center people of color in this fight, any systemic reformation or complete upheaval will inevitably come back to reinforcing white supremacy.
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On June 27 2022 10:12 JimmiC wrote:
Real question, why are you back? And when will you be going again?
Also, there is a lit of options before China if you are willing to work illegally that are not authoritarian.
Because I got assaulted while I was preparing to get a legal work visa and had an inconvenient and absolutely mandatory court date (I called and they said I had to show up.) And by that time tada COVID and travel restrictions, etc. I’d like to go back within five years, I’m working a job right now that will likely help me get properly high pay when I do go back.
China is a good option for quality of life and conveniently half assed authoritarianism and sheer quantity of jobs and value in being a white English speaker.
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Canada11355 Posts
On June 26 2022 18:29 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2022 10:12 NewSunshine wrote:
Yeah, religious freedom is shot in the US now, you have to confirm to radicalized Christianity and it's twisted views. I wonder if the case can be made yet that they've essentially nullified the 1st Amendment. I'm sure the Right doesn't mind tiptoeing that line. Satanism is a recognized religion and is sueing for unlimited access to abortion drugs. Either religious liberty dies or stanism becomes the most popular religion in half the country
I mean the religious liberty question always goes back to the core disagreement in the abortion debate- when does a human become a human. There are limits to religious freedoms. For instance, I suspect no matter how ancient the religion, nor how fervently the beliefs are held by the adherents, the government will not allow human sacrifice. Killing a human is off the table as a religious practice in the US.
So from the pro-life worldview, it is a human life being killed- no religious liberty argument comes into play. Whereas, if no human is being killed as from the pro-choice worldview, a religious argument could be made. Making it a religious liberty argument gets you no further ahead in what is being disagreed upon- each already assumes its own premise. You could found a hundred new religions in 2022, all with abortion as its central tenet, and it's still the age old question underneath the question: when does a new human come into being. It's the un-resolvable disagreement at the heart of the debate.
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EPT
