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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On May 06 2022 11:55 gobbledydook wrote: just grandstanding. There's no such thing. We know how the Overton window works in politics now. This does damage just by getting said by a person that (some) people look to as an authority figure. | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45289 Posts
On May 07 2022 02:47 Doc.Rivers wrote: Not surprised that a random legislator proposed something extreme and got amplified by the media. They're not actually going to pass that law in Texas. There is also not going to be a "fascist theocracy" or fascism in Texas or the US. Just like how Bernie is not going to bring about socialism in the US. Because Republicans aren't trying to undermine American democracy and elections, while simultaneously pushing a pro-Christian and anti- everyone else agenda? | ||
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Simberto
Germany11752 Posts
On May 07 2022 02:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Because Republicans aren't trying to undermine American democracy and elections, while simultaneously pushing a pro-Christian and anti- everyone else agenda? And i think at this point, we should take all the insane and evil shit that they claim they want to do as something they actually want to do. They tried and/or succeeded in doing way too many of the insane things that people assumed they wouldn't really do. It is time that we took them at their word. I mean, it is not like the Texas GOP suddenly cast that guy out, is it? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 07 2022 02:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Because Republicans aren't trying to undermine American democracy and elections, while simultaneously pushing a pro-Christian and anti- everyone else agenda? Because we didn't just go through 4 years of Republicans saying increasingly inflammatory, awful shit, and being taken completely seriously and embraced with open arms by people who have been hoping it would be acceptable to say those things. And then of course, as we can see, the Right-wingers jumping in to cape for Far-Right extremists by saying "oh they don't really mean it when they say they want to establish a white ethno-state and roll back civil rights 100 years, they're just saying that because their voter base wants to hear it!" Like, listen to this shit before you post it. Read it back to yourself when you type it. The stupid is creating a tangible odor. | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45289 Posts
On May 07 2022 04:28 Doc.Rivers wrote: It's easy to make up silly exaggerations about the Republican party and then argue against those exaggerations. It doesn't make sense though to state hyperbole and then pretend that your hyperbole is actual fact. I'm viewing this lack of a real response as a concession on your part. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On May 07 2022 02:47 Doc.Rivers wrote: Not surprised that a random legislator proposed something extreme and got amplified by the media. They're not actually going to pass that law in Texas. There is also not going to be a "fascist theocracy" or fascism in Texas or the US. Just like how Bernie is not going to bring about socialism in the US. Bernie isn’t going to bring about socialism to the USA because he’s not going to get the keys to the kingdom. I have no particular doubt that he’d give it a go, given the requisite platform, or at least something considerably in that direction. I don’t have any particular doubt that the fringes of the GOP as it stands, mean what they say. They may be fringes but the mainstream seems happy to tolerate them in the name of political pragmatism. Indeed the mainstream act all aggrieved for this being pointed out and play the victim. It’s like bringing your weird friend to my house, and when they start pissing on my floor say I’m being unfair for pointing out that you tolerate people who piss on other’s floors | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 07 2022 04:28 Doc.Rivers wrote: It's easy to make up silly exaggerations about the Republican party and then argue against those exaggerations. It doesn't make sense though to state hyperbole and then pretend that your hyperbole is actual fact. It ain't an exaggeration just because you don't want to hear it, my dude. Your party is poised to throw back women's rights 50 fucking years, and it's only encouraged them to call for more activism from the bench: they hope to see cases overturned that would bring the return of segregation and remove protections on the press. So I'm sorry if you don't like how it sounds when people play the sounding board for you, and show you where this train is taking us. There's nothing silly about what's happening. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On May 07 2022 02:47 Doc.Rivers wrote: Not surprised that a random legislator proposed something extreme and got amplified by the media. They're not actually going to pass that law in Texas. There is also not going to be a "fascist theocracy" or fascism in Texas or the US. Just like how Bernie is not going to bring about socialism in the US. If you believe that a fetus is a human life, and that an abortion is a murder, the next logical step is to punish those who break that law, be it the doctor or the woman. How many states still have the death penalty ? You must believe us incredibly dumb or you're one of those fiscal conservative, out of touch with your own party. And if you're focused on limiting government spending, then considering how costly social services/death row inmates are compared to an abortion, you're inconsistent, at best. | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On May 07 2022 04:51 WombaT wrote: Bernie isn’t going to bring about socialism to the USA because he’s not going to get the keys to the kingdom. I have no particular doubt that he’d give it a go, given the requisite platform, or at least something considerably in that direction. I don’t have any particular doubt that the fringes of the GOP as it stands, mean what they say. They may be fringes but the mainstream seems happy to tolerate them in the name of political pragmatism. Indeed the mainstream act all aggrieved for this being pointed out and play the victim. It’s like bringing your weird friend to my house, and when they start pissing on my floor say I’m being unfair for pointing out that you tolerate people who piss on other’s floors Like Bernie, the rando from Texas is not going to get the keys to the kingdom. Even if Bernie got the keys to the kingdom I don't think it would be "socialism" or "communism" or "marxism" that he would try to bring about. My point there was that when people call Republicans fascist, it is equivalent to people on the right misusing the word socialist. On May 07 2022 04:56 NewSunshine wrote: It ain't an exaggeration just because you don't want to hear it, my dude. Your party is poised to throw back women's rights 50 fucking years, and it's only encouraged them to call for more activism from the bench: they hope to see cases overturned that would bring the return of segregation and remove protections on the press. So I'm sorry if you don't like how it sounds when people play the sounding board for you, and show you where this train is taking us. There's nothing silly about what's happening. So in the course of arguing that you're not exaggerating, you just said the Republican party is poised to bring back segregation. As I was saying, these are straw man arguments. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11752 Posts
On May 07 2022 06:19 Doc.Rivers wrote: Like Bernie, the rando from Texas is not going to get the keys to the kingdom. Even if Bernie got the keys to the kingdom I don't think it would be "socialism" or "communism" or "marxism" that he would try to bring about. My point there was that when people call Republicans fascist, it is equivalent to people on the right misusing the word socialist. So in the course of arguing that you're not exaggerating, you just said the Republican party is poised to bring back segregation. As I was saying, these are straw man arguments. Are they really, though? Because i have little faith in the republican party not being as insane and evil as they can get away with. That is what they have been doing for roughly as long as i have been alive. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On May 07 2022 06:19 Doc.Rivers wrote: Like Bernie, the rando from Texas is not going to get the keys to the kingdom. Even if Bernie got the keys to the kingdom I don't think it would be "socialism" or "communism" or "marxism" that he would try to bring about. My point there was that when people call Republicans fascist, it is equivalent to people on the right misusing the word socialist. So in the course of arguing that you're not exaggerating, you just said the Republican party is poised to bring back segregation. As I was saying, these are straw man arguments. I don’t think anybody is claiming some singular legislator from Texas is getting those keys. Merely, that some of them want to do this, and at a time where Roe v Wade is purportedly back in play for re-litigation, well the thing outright preventing x local legislator from doing this is potentially removed. It’s a pretty logical sequence from people wanting to do x, but being stopped by y, if y no longer exists then they can do x. I can only speak for my own position, I imagine it’s reasonably well-shared here, but hey I might be wrong. The issue isn’t that the entire Republican Party, or conservatives in general are fascists, but there are significant fringes that are, and are under the tent. And rather than expunge them, or get them to toe the line or leave the tent, they’ve been actively courted with the provably wrong assumption that they can be controlled. At best, with your establishment types. At worst Trump was happy to tap in to that vein without giving a fuck what happened. And then we’re subjected to ‘but there are good conservatives stop being mean’ ad nausea, which to me is irreconcilable with continuous deflection away from those unsavoury elements. If moderate conservatives are happy to cede their party and direction to these mental people, I mean go ahead, it’s not my party and it’s not my position. Asking people to dig their heads in the sand and pretend this isn’t what is happening currently, and has been happening for quite some time is an unreasonable imposition and borderline insulting to one’s intelligence. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 07 2022 06:19 Doc.Rivers wrote: Like Bernie, the rando from Texas is not going to get the keys to the kingdom. Even if Bernie got the keys to the kingdom I don't think it would be "socialism" or "communism" or "marxism" that he would try to bring about. My point there was that when people call Republicans fascist, it is equivalent to people on the right misusing the word socialist. So in the course of arguing that you're not exaggerating, you just said the Republican party is poised to bring back segregation. As I was saying, these are straw man arguments. Pretending the more radical fringes of your party won't get what they want and don't deserve the attention is what got us Trump. So, no, I'm not inclined to stick my head into the sand when you make your pleas that, really, Republicans aren't that bad. They are that bad. Because they want to be. And they want to be worse. And they want to drag us all with them. | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On May 07 2022 07:04 WombaT wrote: I don’t think anybody is claiming some singular legislator from Texas is getting those keys. Merely, that some of them want to do this, and at a time where Roe v Wade is purportedly back in play for re-litigation, well the thing outright preventing x local legislator from doing this is potentially removed. It’s a pretty logical sequence from people wanting to do x, but being stopped by y, if y no longer exists then they can do x. I can only speak for my own position, I imagine it’s reasonably well-shared here, but hey I might be wrong. The issue isn’t that the entire Republican Party, or conservatives in general are fascists, but there are significant fringes that are, and are under the tent. And rather than expunge them, or get them to toe the line or leave the tent, they’ve been actively courted with the provably wrong assumption that they can be controlled. At best, with your establishment types. At worst Trump was happy to tap in to that vein without giving a fuck what happened. And then we’re subjected to ‘but there are good conservatives stop being mean’ ad nausea, which to me is irreconcilable with continuous deflection away from those unsavoury elements. If moderate conservatives are happy to cede their party and direction to these mental people, I mean go ahead, it’s not my party and it’s not my position. Asking people to dig their heads in the sand and pretend this isn’t what is happening currently, and has been happening for quite some time is an unreasonable imposition and borderline insulting to one’s intelligence. The ideas of individual politicians are not that significant unless they have a chance of becoming law. Here we have an idea from an individual legislator from texas and it's just not going to become law. The reason it won't become law is because there are not enough other Republicans who support the idea. So that's what makes it not a very big deal. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On May 07 2022 08:14 Doc.Rivers wrote: The ideas of individual politicians are not that significant unless they have a chance of becoming law. Here we have an idea from an individual legislator from texas and it's just not going to become law. The reason it won't become law is because there are not enough other Republicans who support the idea. So that's what makes it not a very big deal. Would it not be easier just to say you don’t support this idea? It’s a crude method granted but I’ve found throughout my life the best way to not be charged with tacit acceptance of something is to say I personally oppose it. It’s not a foolproof method, for example it falls flat if the other party finds me an unreliable interlocutor, but for the most part I’ve got good results with it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
It's not hard to call it out and maintain whatever your standards are. I find it much harder to make excuses for shitty people saying terrible, hurtful things and proposing awful, draconian laws that dismantle landmark civil rights. Unless I agree with them and don't think they're shitty. Then I would be more inclined to make excuses. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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