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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On June 27 2018 03:43 brian wrote:surely when you say correction you mean it in the same sense the market ‘corrects.’ not because the stock market plummeting is a move in the right direction, but rather as a means of describing a cyclical trend. 
In the sense of putting right an error.
You can certainly see cyclical trends in populism/elitism-special interests, but I’m not trying to argue that case. Consider the evangelicals/moral majority sermonizing about moral decay, and how that orthodoxy prompted a backlash, or populist revolts stretching back to Andrew Jackson. It’s an interesting aside as to whether Trump’s the end or beginning of a broader cycle stretching back decades.
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On June 27 2018 04:36 Introvert wrote:
You guys are kinda missing it. Sure California is known for writing bad laws. But here's the thing. They intended it to go after these clinics. All this talk about laws or proclamations with discriminatory intent, but no one seems open to the possibility that bad intent is precisely what was motivating the lawmakers in CA who enacted this law. This is CA, they knew what they were doing.
I trust you are equally critical of the Texas laws that interfere with abortion clinics there and force them to close.
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On June 27 2018 05:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 03:43 brian wrote:surely when you say correction you mean it in the same sense the market ‘corrects.’ not because the stock market plummeting is a move in the right direction, but rather as a means of describing a cyclical trend. In the sense of putting right an error. You can certainly see cyclical trends in populism/elitism-special interests, but I’m not trying to argue that case. Consider the evangelicals/moral majority sermonizing about moral decay, and how that orthodoxy prompted a backlash, or populist revolts stretching back to Andrew Jackson. It’s an interesting aside as to whether Trump’s the end or beginning of a broader cycle stretching back decades.
You all didn’t put right an error by electing Donald Trump. That I can tell you.
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On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong.
Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same.
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People love to cite Andrew Jackson as a populist leader that was a revolt against elites. And he was a hero of the people by telling them what they wanted to hear. The part people leave out is that he caused a massive crash in the economy due removing the US Nation Bank(Fed before we knew we needed a Fed) and caused a economic crisis so bad that the Americans from the generation who lived through it were on average shorter than the previous generation due to malnutrition.
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On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same.
Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith?
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On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same.
In fairness the Travel ban is more xenophobic than racist, but for ignorant white people "brown" is basically a race too. It's obviously not about immigration/safety, like the wall and family separations aren't. It's mostly about punishing vulnerable "others" for their imagined/exaggerated negative impact on people with racist/xenophobic views.
Supporting Trump on immigration is a racist thing to do. It's that simple.
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On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong.
Not to mention, if you call them racist, they'll show you and become even more racist to prove just how right you are. But you'll be wrong to call them racist. So they'll become even more racist, because that'll show you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Speaking of which...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrick-little-neo-nazi-california/
Is this actually true? I... struggle to believe it.
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On June 27 2018 05:57 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Not to mention, if you call them racist, they'll show you and become even more racist to prove just how right you are. But you'll be wrong to call them racist. So they'll become even more racist, because that'll show you!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speaking of which... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrick-little-neo-nazi-california/Is this actually true? I... struggle to believe it.
Yup. You want to know what really impresses me? Managing to keep relentless supporters of Israel and self-proclaimed Nazis in the same party voting for the same president. The cognitive dissonance would shatter a thinking persons mind.
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On June 27 2018 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:57 iamthedave wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Not to mention, if you call them racist, they'll show you and become even more racist to prove just how right you are. But you'll be wrong to call them racist. So they'll become even more racist, because that'll show you!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speaking of which... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrick-little-neo-nazi-california/Is this actually true? I... struggle to believe it. Yup. You want to know what really impresses me? Managing to keep relentless supporters of Israel and self-proclaimed Nazis in the same party voting for the same president. The cognitive dissonance would shatter a thinking persons mind.
It is the power of Trump. People see what they want to see him and disregard the rest as unimportant or hysterical screaming by the mythical left. It is like the Christians who want religious freedom, but see the Muslim ban as a “security issue”. Evangelicals are happy with the court appointments, so they will overlook all the moral issues and mass child abuse of the Trump administration.
Edit: Folks should look at Sotomayor's dissent, it is kinda savage. Apparently she was fired up when she gave comments to the press(no recording allowed in that section of the court).
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On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith?
Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population.
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On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population.
That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though.
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On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though.
Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy.
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On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy.
So your point is that it is not relevant that the policy mostly impacts muslims (the probability of someone impacted by the policy being muslim), what is relevant it the percentage of muslims impacted? (The probability of someone who is a muslim being impacted by the policy)
So, if i bomb 5 churches and murder a few hundred christians that way (and no one else), it can not be proven that i am acting out of a hate of christians, because the percentage of christians effected is miniscule, even though i only target christians?
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On June 27 2018 07:18 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy. So your point is that it is not relevant that the policy mostly impacts muslims (the probability of someone impacted by the policy being muslim), what is relevant it the percentage of muslims impacted? (The probability of someone who is a muslim being impacted by the policy) So, if i bomb 5 churches and murder a few hundred christians that way (and no one else), it can not be proven that i am acting out of a hate of christians, because the percentage of christians effected is miniscule, even though i only target christians?
So long as your written manifesto is facially neutral it doesn't matter what you say about it or what you do. What you write is what matters. It's not like the US has at nearly every opportunity used "facially neutral" laws to oppress and exploit vulnerable and marginalized people.
Like I said before. xDaunt's position requires such ridiculous contortions and ignorance of US history I don't believe he's offering it sincerely.
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On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
Except that they set aside all Trump’s statements on Muslims during the campaign as irrelevant. But apparently the commission’s statements about religion were very important in the Masterpiece case. It would seem that all religions are not treated equally in the eyes conservatives Justices. Especially when it comes to government officials disparaging those religion. A more cynical person would question if those justices view disparaging statements about their own religion as more serious than disparaging statements about other religions. First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy.
I don't think you understand what "of course" or "asinine" mean.
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On June 27 2018 07:29 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy. I don't think you understand what "of course" or "asinine" mean.
Of course, I do. The problem is that none of you know what disparate analysis impact is. Think about it this way. What y'all are arguing is that a policy that targets just one Muslim country -- say Iran -- is an anti-Muslim policy simply because Iran is predominantly Muslim. Nevermind that the vast, vast majority of Muslims aren't impacted at all by the policy. Sorry, but that is just a stupid argument.
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On June 27 2018 07:18 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 00:18 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
First, the cases were at different stages in their proceedings. The Masterpiece case had a fully developed record. This case is at preliminary, pre-discovery proceedings, and the Court only decided to lift the preliminary injunction. No decision was made on the merits. Second, this case concerns foreign policy issues, which makes it much harder to uphold the preliminary injunction. Finally, the statements used and relied upon in the Masterpiece case were really, really bad and demonstrated discriminatory animus as applied on a case by case basis. There's no record of that happening here (yet). Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again. The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were. The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims. What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy. So your point is that it is not relevant that the policy mostly impacts muslims (the probability of someone impacted by the policy being muslim), what is relevant it the percentage of muslims impacted? (The probability of someone who is a muslim being impacted by the policy)
I'm not saying that it is entirely irrelevant that it impacts mostly Muslims, but it is absolutely incorrect to ignore the percentage of Muslims affected. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances.
So, if i bomb 5 churches and murder a few hundred christians that way (and no one else), it can not be proven that i am acting out of a hate of christians, because the percentage of christians effected is miniscule, even though i only target christians?
No, this would not fall under disparate impact analysis, because it's not a facially neutral policy. Try again.
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On June 27 2018 07:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 07:18 Simberto wrote:On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again.
The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were.
The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims.
What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy. So your point is that it is not relevant that the policy mostly impacts muslims (the probability of someone impacted by the policy being muslim), what is relevant it the percentage of muslims impacted? (The probability of someone who is a muslim being impacted by the policy) So, if i bomb 5 churches and murder a few hundred christians that way (and no one else), it can not be proven that i am acting out of a hate of christians, because the percentage of christians effected is miniscule, even though i only target christians? So long as your written manifesto is facially neutral it doesn't matter what you say about it or what you do. What you write is what matters. It's not like the US has at nearly every opportunity used "facially neutral" laws to oppress and exploit vulnerable and marginalized people. Like I said before. xDaunt's position requires such ridiculous contortions and ignorance of US history I don't believe he's offering it sincerely.
You have no idea what you're talking about. As our resident expert on all things racist, I'd expect you to have a better understanding of why courts found certain facially neutral policies to be unconstitutional and racist.
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On June 27 2018 07:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 07:18 Simberto wrote:On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 00:30 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Except for the President’s public statements on the issue. I do not find it encouraging that the conservative justices set aside all of his statements when deciding the injunction. When the full case reaches the court, I half expect them to do it again.
The underlying problem with them setting aside the public statements of the president about the ban and Muslims is that it sets up a clear divide between the written justification behind the executive branches order and the public statements of the head of the executive branch. In a sense, doublethink, where the presidents says the exact opposite of what the justification for the executive order were.
The full case has not been decided, but I am not encouraged by the trajectory of the court on these issues. From undoing the voter’s rights act to this, they seem to be retreating from upholding safeguards to protect the homogeneity of our nation. I will be surprised if they do anything but uphold the travel ban that was overtly created to target Muslims.
What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal. The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy. So your point is that it is not relevant that the policy mostly impacts muslims (the probability of someone impacted by the policy being muslim), what is relevant it the percentage of muslims impacted? (The probability of someone who is a muslim being impacted by the policy) I'm not saying that it is entirely irrelevant that it impacts mostly Muslims, but it is absolutely incorrect to ignore the percentage of Muslims affected. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances. Show nested quote +So, if i bomb 5 churches and murder a few hundred christians that way (and no one else), it can not be proven that i am acting out of a hate of christians, because the percentage of christians effected is miniscule, even though i only target christians? No, this would not fall under disparate impact analysis, because it's not a facially neutral policy. Try again.
Sure it would, so long as his manifesto said he was going to bomb people. That's facially neutral as to the people he's going to bomb.
On June 27 2018 07:41 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 07:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 07:18 Simberto wrote:On June 27 2018 07:12 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:54 Plansix wrote:On June 27 2018 05:49 xDaunt wrote:On June 27 2018 05:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 27 2018 00:42 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
What the president said is irrelevant when you have a facially neutral ban. The ban only applies to like seven predominantly Muslim countries that failed to comply with State Department requests for cooperation, plus North Korea (same reasons). Let's just presume for a second that Trump wants to eliminate all Muslim travel to the US. If that's the goal, the current travel ban does a pretty piss poor job of accomplishing that goal.
The attacks on the ban amount to little more than a leftist temper tantrum. President Trump said something mean about Muslims, so he needs to be challenged on it. And that's fine, but the travel ban is not the proper target of liberal ire. Now maybe the plaintiffs will find evidence of discriminatory animus against Muslims in how the travel ban is being applied, but I highly doubt that will be the case. Now your position makes so much more sense. It's completely ridiculous, but at least now I can slightly understand how you reconcile your position with the reality it's disconnected from. That's literally how the decades of state violence and oppression against vulnerable citizens was justified. Also did someone really argue McCain isn't racist? Like McCain is far from the worst the Republicans have to offer but the guy is unabashedly racist. "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yeah, that guy totally isn't racist. Just like the laws aren't, the police aren't and neither are the positions of the people supporting Trump. None of it is racist and it's all a way for marginalized people to get off. Because being fake oppressed and exploited is the way we enjoy life, and is no way a desperate plea for white people to check their brothers and sisters and have them treat us like equal human beings. I can understand why people like xDaunt and Danglars would think that kind of trash, they are just absolutely and dangerously wrong. Feel free to connect the dots on why the travel ban is racist. Everyone keeps pointing to what Trump said, but let's get real: the proof is in the pudding. What does the travel ban actually do and who does it impact? And don't bother likening the travel ban to Jim Crow laws. The disparate impact is no where near the same. Is there really an argument that the travel ban does not disproportionately impacts people of the Muslim faith? Yes, there is. The travel ban affects a very, very small minority of Muslims worldwide. Jim Crow laws had broad-based impacts against the American black population. That wasn't the question. It's not about the proportion of the global population impacted, the question was about the people impacted being disproportionately Muslim. I assume you knew that and avoided the question on purpose though. Of course it is about the proportion of the global population impacted. It would be asinine to assess it any other way. The whole basis of disparate impact analysis is that one group is significantly impacted by an unjustified, facially neutral policy. So your point is that it is not relevant that the policy mostly impacts muslims (the probability of someone impacted by the policy being muslim), what is relevant it the percentage of muslims impacted? (The probability of someone who is a muslim being impacted by the policy) So, if i bomb 5 churches and murder a few hundred christians that way (and no one else), it can not be proven that i am acting out of a hate of christians, because the percentage of christians effected is miniscule, even though i only target christians? So long as your written manifesto is facially neutral it doesn't matter what you say about it or what you do. What you write is what matters. It's not like the US has at nearly every opportunity used "facially neutral" laws to oppress and exploit vulnerable and marginalized people. Like I said before. xDaunt's position requires such ridiculous contortions and ignorance of US history I don't believe he's offering it sincerely. You have no idea what you're talking about. As our resident expert on all things racist, I'd expect you to have a better understanding of why courts found certain facially neutral policies to be unconstitutional and racist.
SCOTUS says and does some stupid things. That a majority shared in the xenophobic perspective means just that. As the SCOTUS that called racist policy constitutional shared the country's racist views.
Others may entertain your argument as if it has some reasonable base in reality but I'm going to call it the total nonsense it is and your defense (or lack there of) is demonstration enough of it's absurdity.
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EPT
