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On February 12 2022 04:20 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 04:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2022 03:30 Nick_54 wrote:On February 12 2022 02:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 12 2022 02:00 mierin wrote:
I'm honestly starting to think I'm part of this crazy minority who agrees with you Mohdoo. "But he's not Trump" or "he votes for judges" is really all most people care about. That's not the entire rationale for people who think Biden is doing an okay job. Couldn't one make the opposite argument by saying "The only things that anti-Biden people focus on are the things he's neglected, like marijuana and education?" That would be just as incorrect. Like, I think both of those - marijuana and education - are really important topics too (and him neglecting them are absolutely cons in a "pros and cons" list) but so is beating our pandemic, our economy, our infrastructure, and our global affairs. He's done some good things, and he's definitely neglected some other things. Is the 3k+ deaths yesterday and the 40 year record inflation and the Afghanistan debacle what you consider pros for beating the pandemic, the economy, and global affairs? They aren't for me. I'll give him a win for the infrastructure bill. I guess I must be missing the good things or maybe the fact that he didn't follow through on the promised student loan debt relief that he has the power to do through executive order makes me sick. That's a very weird cherry-picking of scenarios, but I would absolutely consider the progress we've made with covid, as well as with the economy and job growth, as well as finally leaving Afghanistan, as pros, yes. I share your disappointment in his lack of addressing student loan debt and education in general. Covid deaths are as over 3,000 day how is that progress to you?
Because vaccinations and boosters are literally available to everyone, for free, and Biden's been pushing for everyone to take them. Or, put another way, almost every single one of those 3,000 people voluntarily chose to die. It's blunt, but it's true. They didn't have to die, but they exercised their right to stay unvaccinated, and that's what killed them. We know that 90+% of covid deaths are from unvaccinated people, so out of those 3,000 people who died, maybe a few hundred were vaccinated and died from super-rare breakthrough cases - and that's absolutely tragic. I would love for it to be lower, and I think that we'll continue to see the number of daily cases and deaths decrease, but when you still have a significant percentage of anti-vaxxers ratcheting up the body count by not listening to the recommendations of scientists, doctors, and Biden, there's not much else you can do except hope that the next strain isn't as bad. Or, I suppose, the deaths of the unvaccinated may convince people close to them to get vaccinated too.
(Other people brought up that Biden could have given out masks and testing kits to everyone, and I totally agree that those would have been great short-term solutions as well.)
I'd be happy to talk about covid-related stuff further with you, but I think it would be best to move the conversation to the covid thread, so that we don't clog up the USPMT with more covid talk 
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Biden made promises he can't or won't keep. That's thr basic reason. Whether it's on the issues already mentioned or his promise to bring back competence and turn down the political temperature, he has failed... As anyone who bothered to learn anything about him prior to 2020 would have been able to predict. Afghanistan just shattered to facade, it was too hard to ignore.
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On February 12 2022 03:23 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 02:00 mierin wrote:
I'm honestly starting to think I'm part of this crazy minority who agrees with you Mohdoo. "But he's not Trump" or "he votes for judges" is really all most people care about. Apparently we're victims of right wing propaganda, lol. I'm with you two. People giving him every excuse in the book just for not being Trump. Maybe I'm just a sucker for expecting him to do something positive starting with student debt relief.
The bar for Democrat voters is unacceptably low by any reasonable measure from my perspective. Mohdoo's bar is even lower than it was just a couple months ago when not letting millions of children fall back into poverty was on his list of must haves.
"Not Trump" also isn't very helpful electorally when Biden's favorability rating is basically the same as Trump's at this point in his presidency and several points behind Trump's current favorability rating. Not to mention Republicans are several points ahead on generic Congressional polls (which typically favor Democrats).
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I don't think people are reasoning well the difference in the Biden administration we have right now vs the Trump administration we would have right now. Omicron would have been a hell of a lot worse if the administration wasn't pushing vaccines and tried its best to shift to a Floridian strategy of paying for super expensive antibody treatments.
The collapse in Afghanistan was something that Trump explicitly negotiated for and should be blamed on him because it was his agreement and treaty he pushed for. Biden not doubling down on the terrible situation is at worst a net good.
there is no way Trump keeps student loans interest-free and payment-free. we wouldn't even be having a discussion on changing the interest rates as trump would refuse to engage in something as complex as monetary policy.
At the worst Biden at least tried to get some sort of climate change legislation through. Trump would just continue to call it a hoax and would have done the opposite of anything helpful in relation to the environment.
We just got legislation on arbitration in the workplace for sexual harassment. that might not be a big deal to a bunch of guys but do you really think Trump would have gone anywhere near pushing for that?
People judge Democrats on a wildly higher bar than republicans. The fact that we have a president not actively engaging in a criminal conspiracy in the open and finding bold new ways to humiliate the nation shouldn't be taken for granted.
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On February 12 2022 05:25 JimmiC wrote:
I mean we just had pages of people defending Trump for breaking the rules that were put in place to stop another Nixon.
Just for the record this is not what was argued, as can be easily confirmed by reading the last couple pages.
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On February 12 2022 06:07 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 05:25 JimmiC wrote:
I mean we just had pages of people defending Trump for breaking the rules that were put in place to stop another Nixon. Just for the record this is not what was argued, as can be easily confirmed by reading the last couple pages.
The Presidential Records Act was literally created as a result of Nixon's scandal; Trump is being accused of breaking the Presidential Records Act; you were defending him with a whataboutism regarding Hillary Clinton.
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On February 12 2022 06:05 Sermokala wrote:
People judge Democrats on a wildly higher bar than republicans. The fact that we have a president not actively engaging in a criminal conspiracy in the open and finding bold new ways to humiliate the nation shouldn't be taken for granted.
Ideally we just spend the next ten years or so grateful for the big relief that Trump isn't president anymore and don't hold anyone who is actually in office to a higher standard. Can't have the bar be anywhere in the range of actually hoping for policy improvements, after all!
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On February 12 2022 06:05 Sermokala wrote:The collapse in Afghanistan was something that Trump explicitly negotiated for and should be blamed on him because it was his agreement and treaty he pushed for.
Although trump was going to do the same thing that Biden did (withdraw hastily), Biden was in no way bound by trumps plan, and Biden affirmatively chose the path he took. Biden adopted Trump’s plan, which dems would ordinarily fault Biden for - but in this case, there is a partisan need to deflect blame from Biden for something that obviously went very poorly.
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On February 12 2022 06:10 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 06:05 Sermokala wrote:
People judge Democrats on a wildly higher bar than republicans. The fact that we have a president not actively engaging in a criminal conspiracy in the open and finding bold new ways to humiliate the nation shouldn't be taken for granted. Ideally we just spend the next ten years or so grateful for the big relief that Trump isn't president anymore and don't hold anyone who is actually in office to a higher standard. Can't have the bar be anywhere in the range of actually hoping for policy improvements, after all! The US is a 2 party system. The only bar the Democrats have to clear is being better then the Republicans, and while the latter see an insurrection as 'legitimate public discourse' that bar is on the floor.
Such is the nature of the system.
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On February 12 2022 06:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 06:07 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 12 2022 05:25 JimmiC wrote:
I mean we just had pages of people defending Trump for breaking the rules that were put in place to stop another Nixon. Just for the record this is not what was argued, as can be easily confirmed by reading the last couple pages. The Presidential Records Act was literally created as a result of Nixon's scandal; Trump is being accused of breaking the Presidential Records Act; you were defending him with a whataboutism regarding Hillary Clinton.
Admitting that Trump violated the law and can be prosecuted for doing so is very different than defending Trump for violating that law.
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Is the US fearmongering over Russia like it did with Iraq? I would much rather we not go to war while being lied to by everyone in charge
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On February 12 2022 06:46 plasmidghost wrote:
Is the US fearmongering over Russia like it did with Iraq? I would much rather we not go to war while being lied to by everyone in charge
I don't think the two are equated in the way you want them to be, but I agree avoiding war if possible is best case. Sadly, I don't think we can sit this one out if Russia invades.
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On February 12 2022 06:46 plasmidghost wrote:
Is the US fearmongering over Russia like it did with Iraq? I would much rather we not go to war while being lied to by everyone in charge If something happens it will be after Russia invades. Unless your going to imply the US will fake a Russian invasion in a false flag operation, I don't see how this would be comparable to Iraq.
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I can’t imagine the US invading Russian territory. I can imagine the US fighting Russian troops in Ukraine. If we have a war, it’ll be a lot more like Desert Storm than Operation Iraqi Liberation.
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Yeah, shortly after I posted that, I realized that it was a comparison that made little sense
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Nothing new happened since the initial troop deployment on the border, which is a yearly tradition at this point. I don't know why the imminent invasion headlines keep falling down and coming back up every few days as if there's been a development.
Russia's goal in Ukraine is to keep them too tainted for NATO/EU accession, for that it's more than enough to keep Donbas and Crimea hashed on maps and make some noise banging pots and pans from time to time to remind everyone that Ukraine still has herpes. That's already pretty expensive but I can see why they see it as necessary, anything more though would give extremely diminished returns, so I haven't been too fussed about it even though we're right next to it.
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On February 12 2022 07:36 Dan HH wrote:
Nothing new happened since the initial troop deployment on the border, which is a yearly tradition at this point. I don't know why the imminent invasion headlines keep falling down and coming back up every few days as if there's been a development.
Russia's goal in Ukraine is to keep them too tainted for NATO/EU accession, for that it's more than enough to keep Donbas and Crimea hashed on maps and make some noise banging pots and pans from time to time to remind everyone that Ukraine still has herpes. That's already pretty expensive but I can see why they see it as necessary, anything more though would give extremely diminished returns, so I haven't been too fussed about it even though we're right next to it.
Isn't this a new sort of military buildup though? They are now in a position to actually launch a full scale invasion.
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On February 12 2022 07:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 07:36 Dan HH wrote:
Nothing new happened since the initial troop deployment on the border, which is a yearly tradition at this point. I don't know why the imminent invasion headlines keep falling down and coming back up every few days as if there's been a development.
Russia's goal in Ukraine is to keep them too tainted for NATO/EU accession, for that it's more than enough to keep Donbas and Crimea hashed on maps and make some noise banging pots and pans from time to time to remind everyone that Ukraine still has herpes. That's already pretty expensive but I can see why they see it as necessary, anything more though would give extremely diminished returns, so I haven't been too fussed about it even though we're right next to it. Isn't this a new sort of military buildup though? They are now in a position to actually launch a full scale invasion. https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1490041589078581252
If you use a custom range on google from 2015 to 2021 for "russian troops ukraine border" you will find similar movements from every year.
And it makes sense to me, I don't see this as Russia being irrational. When the population of one of their friendly neighbours turns pro-western they're dealing with it as a natural disaster. It worked in Moldova where Transnistria has been the infected zone for 30 years now and we'll probably see it in Belarus as well during our lifetimes.
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On February 12 2022 08:10 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2022 07:42 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 12 2022 07:36 Dan HH wrote:
Nothing new happened since the initial troop deployment on the border, which is a yearly tradition at this point. I don't know why the imminent invasion headlines keep falling down and coming back up every few days as if there's been a development.
Russia's goal in Ukraine is to keep them too tainted for NATO/EU accession, for that it's more than enough to keep Donbas and Crimea hashed on maps and make some noise banging pots and pans from time to time to remind everyone that Ukraine still has herpes. That's already pretty expensive but I can see why they see it as necessary, anything more though would give extremely diminished returns, so I haven't been too fussed about it even though we're right next to it. Isn't this a new sort of military buildup though? They are now in a position to actually launch a full scale invasion. https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1490041589078581252 If you use a custom range on google from 2015 to 2021 for "russian troops ukraine border" you will find similar movements from every year. And it makes sense to me, I don't see this as Russia being irrational. When the population of one of their friendly neighbours turns pro-western they're dealing with it as a natural disaster. It worked in Moldova where Transnistria has been the infected zone for 30 years now and we'll probably see it in Belarus as well during our lifetimes.
Here we can appreciate the full work of the russian propaganda. Russia threatening another country is in no way related to this country becoming pro western.
Fully agreeing with JimmiC on this, bizarro world.
Putin is refusing to state any demands as he moves his army forward, but hey he's totally justified into w.e he's doing bc _the west_.
Russia is a decadent state waiting to get pushed out of relevancy, he's just trying to hold onto power and steal as much of its ressources before it all breaks down.
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EPT
