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On January 01 2022 02:36 micronesia wrote:
Your counter to that questionable poll is a survey of most republicans that you know? I feel like I should believe neither that poll nor you at this point.
Anecdotes are better than data, don’t you listen to Joe Rogan on vaccines? /S.
It’s just a hunch that I have. Could be wrong. But to me coming from Bill Clinton’s impeachment, GoreVBush election, Obama years, and now Trump, we reached pinnacle derangement as a country. I don’t see it spiraling out of control now that Trump had four years of pressing the pedals of democracy as much as he could.
As for the voter suppression stuff, that’s a different ordeal entirely. Usually don’t agree with limiting voting in any capacity. Some of the stuff is overblown though.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On January 01 2022 06:57 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2022 02:36 micronesia wrote:
Your counter to that questionable poll is a survey of most republicans that you know? I feel like I should believe neither that poll nor you at this point. Anecdotes are better than data, don’t you listen to Joe Rogan on vaccines? /S. It’s just a hunch that I have. Could be wrong. But to me coming from Bill Clinton’s impeachment, GoreVBush election, Obama years, and now Trump, we reached pinnacle derangement as a country. I don’t see it spiraling out of control now that Trump had four years of pressing the pedals of democracy as much as he could. As for the voter suppression stuff, that’s a different ordeal entirely. Usually don’t agree with limiting voting in any capacity. Some of the stuff is overblown though.
Hunches are underrated
I had a hunch we’d vote to exit the EU, which polling data didn’t really support at all, based on the relative strength of feeling the pro EU folk had (status quo) vs those who wanted out (really pissed off), essentially that the pro camp, as it was the status quo and indications were it would remain, wouldn’t be as incentivised as those who really, really wanted out. That’s my post-hoc rationalisation but initially my hunch said we’d vote to leave
Hunches can be right, IMO it’s an unconscious processing of a lot of anecdotal information with what we know of the world, with some consideration of our understanding of human nature factored in. My friends said I was wrong and pessimistic but here we are.
If you could mathematically pull out what forms a hunch from your brain, it would stand up to empirical scrutiny, in many cases. That said I don’t agree with you on this, I’m just not seeing the signs of de-escalation, whatsoever.
Clinton was, preposterous, infidelity as an impeachable offence, lucky those standards weren’t applied to Trump.
Bush/Gore was a genuine issue, contentious yes but, to a degree bipartisan in the dispute so I’ll give that a pass.
Obama years = we don’t like a push for better healthcare coverage and there’s totally nobody who doesn’t like Obama because he’s black or (not) Muslim, it’s policy concerns.
And well Trump can do whatever the fuck he wants and that’s fine.
There’s some pretty clear patterns here, as unpalatable as they may be, as to where derangement is coming from, and I’m not seeing any evidence it has dissipated whatsoever.
I think the Dems are fucking shit personally, don’t get me wrong. There’s still nobody in that caucus who remotely compares to Marjorie Taylor Greene or Lauren Boebert, or Donald Trump or I dunno storming the Capitol
And in the absence of any meaningful consequences to political players with regards to that farrago I’m not sure where your confidence in pinnacle derangement being reached is coming from
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United States44448 Posts
Mike Pence doesn’t want to openly come out against the stance of “hang Mike Pence” for fear of alienating his base.
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On January 01 2022 02:02 JimmiC wrote:I'm not so sure. The reality is the people in the most danger and the most dangerous, the unvaccinated are not listening anyway and I'm not sure on if the vaccinated are still infectious after 5 days when they are symptom free. It might be a case of realizing that they are simply punishing those who are following the rules and not doing anything to those who are not. The bonus of things is there is starting to be positivity around moving to an endemic. Between vaccination and the (seemingly, jury is still out) omicron being more infectious but less dangerous. That we will have enough societal protection going forward. Omicron + vaccination appears to protect well vs Delta and keep the worst of the effects to a minimum. Show nested quote +"The way the virus is changing with Omicron — that is leading us to that place sooner," she said. "The type of illness it's causing, with most of us being protected through vaccination, means that we are going to get to that place."
Henry says the virus will eventually become endemic as the season shifts to spring, more children get vaccinated and the spread of infection slows, though she said there are still many unknowns ahead.
"I think we're getting there, but we're always going to have to learn some of the lessons from this," she said.
"Some of them are societal — around the inequities that this virus has exposed and the value that we put on different types of workers, for example." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dr-bonnie-henry-year-ender-1.6301202
By basing it around "symptoms" and telling people that the vaccinated don't have to quarantine at all what the CDC is telling the business's that they can force their employees to come in and never inform them if they have been exposed at all. Nor do they even have to let people have time off anymore because "The CDC says you don't need to stay home so you don't have a job if you don't come in even tho you tested positive for covid or some other employee tested positive" Many people have gotten fake vaccination cards or would just straight iie about their status. Most businesses won't even ask for your status when they can just assume you got vaccinated and thus don't need any time off for covid anymore.
While hospitals are full and cases are spiking the US has officially declared the pandemic over and people need to go back to work regardless of them dieing or not.
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The rules for testing positive is 5 days but if you are merely exposed there is no time period anymore. In a world of testing availability being an issue and at will employment it means your boss can fire you if you insist that you have symptoms but can't find a test. The burden of "symptoms" being so subjective they can also fire you for claiming it to get time off.
The difference between America and Canada is a vast gulf of labor relations and protections. What is a simple reexamination of protocol in Canada is a clear message that people should die for shareholders.
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It should be noted that the detachment from reality that has taken hold in the US is not limited to the Republican side. I would expect that going forward, the losing side in each presidential election will continue to lose its mind and their allied media will lead the charge. For example, reputable polling sources show that a solid majority of democrats believe that Russia altered vote totals via hacking in 2016. And the losing candidate in 2016, Hillary Clinton, referred to Trump as an "illegitimate president." And really, there's a good faith argument that the Trump-Russia craziness (inaugurated by Buzzfeed's publishing of the Steele dossier (lol)) was just a bad reaction to Trump's victory.
That said, January 6th was probably worse than the Trump-Russia stuff.
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On January 01 2022 11:02 Doc.Rivers wrote:
For example, reputable polling sources show that a solid majority of democrats believe that Russia altered vote totals via hacking in 2016.
Source on that, please.
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On January 01 2022 09:58 Sermokala wrote:
The rules for testing positive is 5 days but if you are merely exposed there is no time period anymore. In a world of testing availability being an issue and at will employment it means your boss can fire you if you insist that you have symptoms but can't find a test. The burden of "symptoms" being so subjective they can also fire you for claiming it to get time off.
The difference between America and Canada is a vast gulf of labor relations and protections. What is a simple reexamination of protocol in Canada is a clear message that people should die for shareholders.
The specific thing around 5 days in BC is:
If unvaccinated:
Isolate for 10 days after positive, or after onset of symptoms.
If vaccinated:
Isolate for 5 days and you can return to normal activities with a mask at all times for 5 additional days.
You cannot stop the spread. It spreads faster than measles if you include incubation time. (Each person spreads to fewer people, but the generational time is 3 days, so in the time that measles spreads to 15 people, you have 4-5 generations of Omicron, and 4^5 >>> 15). Contact tracing has been completely overwhelmed, testing capacity is overloaded and it's not a guarantee that you've got covid, even if you have symptoms of a cold/flu-like disease.
Co-incidentally all employees (after 90 days) have five paid sick days and three additional unpaid mandated by law.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/paid-sick-leave
There's an element of trust that needs to happen because of how difficult getting a test is, but there is an expectation that in the next month, there will be a non-zero number of businesses closing because too many employees are sick, and the business is unable to operate.
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You can't read you own links before posting them ?
59% of Democrats are very concerned about improper relations between the Trump campaign and Russia
Democrats overwhelmingly say fake news spread by Russia was at least somewhat likely to have affected the results of the presidential election – just under half (46%) say that it was very likely.
59% of Democrats are “very concerned” about the possibility of improper relations between the Trump campaign and Russia before the election 2016,
They overwhelmingly say Russia hacked the emails of the Democratic National Committee and spread fake news to help Donald Trump win.
Seems like you misunderstood the "hacking" part.
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On January 01 2022 12:32 Erasme wrote:You can't read you own links before posting them ? Show nested quote +59% of Democrats are very concerned about improper relations between the Trump campaign and Russia Show nested quote +Democrats overwhelmingly say fake news spread by Russia was at least somewhat likely to have affected the results of the presidential election – just under half (46%) say that it was very likely. Show nested quote + 59% of Democrats are “very concerned” about the possibility of improper relations between the Trump campaign and Russia before the election 2016, Show nested quote +They overwhelmingly say Russia hacked the emails of the Democratic National Committee and spread fake news to help Donald Trump win. Seems like you misunderstood the "hacking" part.
You are missing the relevant part. See far right side:
![[image loading]](https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2018-03-08/Screen%20Shot%202018-03-08%20at%204.09.15%20PM.png)
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
I’m not seeing where Doc is wrong here
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On January 01 2022 11:02 Doc.Rivers wrote:It should be noted that the detachment from reality that has taken hold in the US is not limited to the Republican side. I would expect that going forward, the losing side in each presidential election will continue to lose its mind and their allied media will lead the charge. For example, reputable polling sources show that a solid majority of democrats believe that Russia altered vote totals via hacking in 2016. And the losing candidate in 2016, Hillary Clinton, referred to Trump as an "illegitimate president." And really, there's a good faith argument that the Trump-Russia craziness (inaugurated by Buzzfeed's publishing of the Steele dossier (lol)) was just a bad reaction to Trump's victory. That said, January 6th was probably worse than the Trump-Russia stuff. A literally insurrection attempt was 'probably' worse then a known and confirmed attempt by Russia to influence US elections through support of the Trump campaign?
the fact that you put a 'probably' in there leads me to question if you even heard about the Republican Senate Intelligence committee report on the matter.
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On January 01 2022 20:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2022 11:02 Doc.Rivers wrote:It should be noted that the detachment from reality that has taken hold in the US is not limited to the Republican side. I would expect that going forward, the losing side in each presidential election will continue to lose its mind and their allied media will lead the charge. For example, reputable polling sources show that a solid majority of democrats believe that Russia altered vote totals via hacking in 2016. And the losing candidate in 2016, Hillary Clinton, referred to Trump as an "illegitimate president." And really, there's a good faith argument that the Trump-Russia craziness (inaugurated by Buzzfeed's publishing of the Steele dossier (lol)) was just a bad reaction to Trump's victory. That said, January 6th was probably worse than the Trump-Russia stuff. A literally insurrection attempt was 'probably' worse then a known and confirmed attempt by Russia to influence US elections through support of the Trump campaign? the fact that you put a 'probably' in there leads me to question if you even heard about the Republican Senate Intelligence committee report on the matter.
Well for one thing I don't personally call it an "insurrection." No one has been charged with insurrection (even though insurrection is a crime). And it just seems to me that guns are required for an "insurrection." But certainly it was a uniquely horrible event.
Russia's attempt to help Trump should not be held against Trump unless he cooperated or "COLLUDED" with Russia. It was really the pee tape allegation that caused Russia hysteria (before Buzzfeed published the allegation, there was no hysteria; after the publication, there was), which is why I say that Russia hysteria was just a bad reaction to losing the election. The Steele dossier was never credible.
As for the Senate report, the media has reported on it rather deceptively. I see that you called it a "Republican" report. The media wrote headlines describing the report as "Republican-led," but proceeded to quote from a portion of the report written by three dem senators (as in, there's an actual heading saying "Views of the minority") So that report needs to be handled with care.
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Thanks. I was under the impression that while Democrats thought there was Russian interference, it didn't extend to significant amounts of fake voting.
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EPT
