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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3208

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
April 30 2021 15:50 GMT
#64141
Have we arrived at conclusion, that an independent panel from various parts of society is needed to determin regulation and arbitration rules, yet?


re: critical thinking
In my personal experience, my "efficiency" driven workplace implanted a false senes of how much I have to "do" in a specific amount of time. And, more importantly, that time spent researching without an immeadiate applicable result is to be avoided at all cost.
Which brings us (me), ideally, to the pareto-principle, more likely to a "good enough, I guess" attitude, that makes me judge quickly ("efficiently").
But regarding the desired bullshit resistency of the population, I think proper research is needed to form opinions. And while the internet does allow that, in principle, echo chambers, confirmation bias and general laziness (youtube videos as information source, no primary or even aggregated data) contribute to a rather horrid implementation "research".
passive quaranstream fan
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 30 2021 15:58 GMT
#64142
--- Nuked ---
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-30 16:46:07
April 30 2021 16:43 GMT
#64143
--- Nuked ---
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46092 Posts
April 30 2021 16:47 GMT
#64144
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 30 2021 16:51 GMT
#64145
--- Nuked ---
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46092 Posts
April 30 2021 17:18 GMT
#64146
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


Having 51 or 52 Senators interested in actually governing would definitely allow for some breathing room!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
EnDeR_
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Spain2915 Posts
April 30 2021 17:21 GMT
#64147
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.
estás más desubicao q un croissant en un plato de nécoras
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46092 Posts
April 30 2021 17:24 GMT
#64148
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 30 2021 17:30 GMT
#64149
--- Nuked ---
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
April 30 2021 17:36 GMT
#64150
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The entire house is reseated every two years. It doesn't make sense for democrats or republicans to have any advantage from that perspective. One third of the senate is replaced every two years. In 2022, there are 20 Republican and 14 Democrat seats that can potentially change hands. The NC senate seat is one that you should pay attention to. Burr is retiring so he will be replaced for sure, but it could go either way. Pennsylvania is the other.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
April 30 2021 17:56 GMT
#64151
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The Republicans are going nuts passing voting bills in their state legislatures... Florida just did one yesterday or something. I think there's a very real danger that they take back the senate with combination of gerrymandering and the slew of new voting legislation they've passed in response to their 2020 loss. I'm really anxious for the Democrats to nuke the filibuster and get to work at DC statehood and strengthening voter enfranchisement. Honestly the GOP feels like a terrorist organization holding the country hostage at this point.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10483 Posts
April 30 2021 18:17 GMT
#64152
On May 01 2021 02:56 Starlightsun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The Republicans are going nuts passing voting bills in their state legislatures... Florida just did one yesterday or something. I think there's a very real danger that they take back the senate with combination of gerrymandering and the slew of new voting legislation they've passed in response to their 2020 loss. I'm really anxious for the Democrats to nuke the filibuster and get to work at DC statehood and strengthening voter enfranchisement. Honestly the GOP feels like a terrorist organization holding the country hostage at this point.

You realized the last time Democrats used the Nuclear option on judicial nominees, you ended up with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett right? Democrats need to stop thinking so short term with their actions when it comes to changing the rules and also consider the backlash and consequences of their actions.

As an example, if Biden does in fact pack the court and add more seats to the Supreme Court, I guarantee you that Republicans will do the same when they go back and control Congress.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-30 18:33:36
April 30 2021 18:28 GMT
#64153
On May 01 2021 03:17 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:56 Starlightsun wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The Republicans are going nuts passing voting bills in their state legislatures... Florida just did one yesterday or something. I think there's a very real danger that they take back the senate with combination of gerrymandering and the slew of new voting legislation they've passed in response to their 2020 loss. I'm really anxious for the Democrats to nuke the filibuster and get to work at DC statehood and strengthening voter enfranchisement. Honestly the GOP feels like a terrorist organization holding the country hostage at this point.

You realized the last time Democrats used the Nuclear option on judicial nominees, you ended up with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett right? Democrats need to stop thinking so short term with their actions when it comes to changing the rules and also consider the backlash and consequences of their actions.

As an example, if Biden does in fact pack the court and add more seats to the Supreme Court, I guarantee you that Republicans will do the same when they go back and control Congress.


Are you telling me that Democrats are responsible for those three justices being on the bench? I don't follow. But I am talking specifically about locking down on the GOP's longstanding and recently accelerating efforts to suppress voting, so that they don't keep getting back into power contrary to the actual will of the country.

Especially with the intensifying crisis of climate change, it's becoming a matter of literal survival to keep the regressive party from steering us back into the stone age once again.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46092 Posts
April 30 2021 18:38 GMT
#64154
On May 01 2021 03:17 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:56 Starlightsun wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The Republicans are going nuts passing voting bills in their state legislatures... Florida just did one yesterday or something. I think there's a very real danger that they take back the senate with combination of gerrymandering and the slew of new voting legislation they've passed in response to their 2020 loss. I'm really anxious for the Democrats to nuke the filibuster and get to work at DC statehood and strengthening voter enfranchisement. Honestly the GOP feels like a terrorist organization holding the country hostage at this point.

You realized the last time Democrats used the Nuclear option on judicial nominees, you ended up with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett right? Democrats need to stop thinking so short term with their actions when it comes to changing the rules and also consider the backlash and consequences of their actions.

As an example, if Biden does in fact pack the court and add more seats to the Supreme Court, I guarantee you that Republicans will do the same when they go back and control Congress.


There's nothing stopping Republicans from packing the court first, and we've seen them make the first move (in terms of undermining bipartisanship) so many times in the past already. Their entire political agenda is to block Democrats. That's it.

Also, could you please elaborate on why Dems are responsible for those 3 SCJs?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
April 30 2021 18:51 GMT
#64155
On May 01 2021 03:17 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:56 Starlightsun wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The Republicans are going nuts passing voting bills in their state legislatures... Florida just did one yesterday or something. I think there's a very real danger that they take back the senate with combination of gerrymandering and the slew of new voting legislation they've passed in response to their 2020 loss. I'm really anxious for the Democrats to nuke the filibuster and get to work at DC statehood and strengthening voter enfranchisement. Honestly the GOP feels like a terrorist organization holding the country hostage at this point.

You realized the last time Democrats used the Nuclear option on judicial nominees, you ended up with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett right? Democrats need to stop thinking so short term with their actions when it comes to changing the rules and also consider the backlash and consequences of their actions.

As an example, if Biden does in fact pack the court and add more seats to the Supreme Court, I guarantee you that Republicans will do the same when they go back and control Congress.

Republicans were the ones that nuked the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees though. I still remember the conservative op-eds arguing Dems should let Gorsuch through without filibustering so they could still try to use it on a future nominee. The trouble being, if you’re already not using it because they promised to eliminate it if you use it, it’s already de facto eliminated.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 30 2021 19:12 GMT
#64156
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24048 Posts
April 30 2021 20:22 GMT
#64157
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.

If McTurtle was actually what was blocking everything from being voted on you'd think that stuff would have been getting voted on now while he's not in control.

Instead we've got months of Democrats negotiating with themselves to look forward to apparently.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
April 30 2021 20:50 GMT
#64158
--- Nuked ---
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
April 30 2021 21:33 GMT
#64159
On April 30 2021 22:00 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2021 18:40 BlackJack wrote:
On April 30 2021 18:28 maybenexttime wrote:
On April 30 2021 14:27 BlackJack wrote:
On April 30 2021 14:13 NewSunshine wrote:
On April 30 2021 14:10 BlackJack wrote:
Let me spell out my position for you as simply as I can: It's wrong to think one should not get vaccinated, but people should be entitled to their wrong opinion without having the truth police crack down on them.

People are entitled to be wrong, but to convince other people of your wrong opinion and put their lives at risk is something entirely different. This isn't just a discussion about whether the sky is blue, it's a bloody pandemic. It's like if there were a section on the internet of people who like to make arguments about why you should drive drunk. There's consequences to having certain opinions, as well as to letting people proliferate beliefs that are objectively dangerous. You haven't addressed that.


You're right, it's not a discussion about whether the sky is blue. We don't have a 1st amendment so that we can talk about the sky being blue. Free speech is freaking useless if it only gives us the right to talk about things that aren't controversial. The fact that you're willing to to go full blown authoritarian at the first sign of danger shows exactly why we need a 1st amendment and people to stand up for it.

It's not a matter of saying controversial things. It's literally the pandemic equivalent of crying "FIRE" in a packed theater, causing people to trample one another.


I just took 2 pages of shit for arguing that "temporarily stop administering a vaccine" is the same as "temporarily stop taking a vaccine."

People are honestly going to come here and say that saying something anti-vax is literally the same as inciting violence or yelling fire in a packed theater?

If people let this shit slide I'm gonna be upset lol

I really fail to see how my analogy is not good. How is crying "vaccines cause autism" leading to a a polio or smallpox outbreak different from someone crying "fire" causing people to trample one another? Both are cases of misinformation causing people to protect themselves against a non-existent threat, killing others in the process.



I'm going to be honest, I'm no expert in constitutional law and my expertise amounts to a couple of courses I took in college. I don't think I've even heard of Schenck v United States where the "fire in a theater" metaphor was supposedly created, but I do know of it from Brandenburg v Ohio. In that case the court found that in order to suppress speech in such a way you have to show that it would cause "imminent lawless action." The "imminent" part is really what sets your comparison apart. If the speech is not coupled with the action it gives the government way too broad of a brush to strike down any speech it could argue may cause some future harm.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
April 30 2021 22:25 GMT
#64160
On May 01 2021 03:17 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2021 02:56 Starlightsun wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 02:21 EnDeR_ wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 01 2021 01:43 plasmidghost wrote:
I am thankful that Biden learned from Obama's mistakes of trying to appease the GOP. This actually gives me some hope since he's listening to the progressives in the party and is trying to work out plans knowing only Dems will support it. I really hope Bernie can convince Biden to push for more progressive policies regarding things like climate change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-private-calls-left-wing-nyt-2021-4


I agree that trying to compromise with Congressional Republicans is absolutely fruitless, and a waste of time. The only members of Congress that Biden needs to make sure he keeps on board, for his agenda, are the few Democrats who are moderate, like Joe Manchin. That's where some appeasement might need to exist, but definitely not with respect to Republicans.

Yep, and if the Dems can shake off the midterm trends of the other party making significant gains, people like Manchin would become a lot less relevant (thank god)


I wouldn't bank on that, the trifecta never remains active for long, and reps have an advantage with the senate map, so we'll likely go back to McTurtle blocking everything very soon. Biden should take as many wins as he can, while he can.


It's more likely for Republicans to gain a Senate seat or two, than Democrats, during the next election? I thought it was more likely for Dems to pick up a Senator or two next time (but more likely for Repubs to pick up a few House seats this time and then more likely for Repubs to pick up Senate seats in the following election - two elections from now).


The Republicans are going nuts passing voting bills in their state legislatures... Florida just did one yesterday or something. I think there's a very real danger that they take back the senate with combination of gerrymandering and the slew of new voting legislation they've passed in response to their 2020 loss. I'm really anxious for the Democrats to nuke the filibuster and get to work at DC statehood and strengthening voter enfranchisement. Honestly the GOP feels like a terrorist organization holding the country hostage at this point.

You realized the last time Democrats used the Nuclear option on judicial nominees, you ended up with Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett right? Democrats need to stop thinking so short term with their actions when it comes to changing the rules and also consider the backlash and consequences of their actions.

As an example, if Biden does in fact pack the court and add more seats to the Supreme Court, I guarantee you that Republicans will do the same when they go back and control Congress.

I'm going to go ahead and correctly apportion responsibility to Republicans for the nominees they enabled themselves to add to the Supreme Court, if that's cool with you. They are not absolved of the responsibility of their awful choices just because they pointed at Democrats after doing so.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
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