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Biden wants to pick a fight over fucking Rahm Emmanuel, the shitbag who tried to cover up the death of Laquan McDonald at the hands of the police.
Fuck fighting for Rahm Emmanuel, spend that energy fighting for a 15 dollar minimum wage, or stimulus checks Biden. Pick a nonshitbird to be the ambassador to Japan.
Biden also seems interested in fighting over Neera Tanden for OMB.
Why is this where he wants to apply his fighting spirit, lol. This is the Democrat version of the Brett Kavanaugh situation. We need to stop trying so hard to give controversial assholes power, surely the country can do better than Neera Tanden and Rahm Emmanuel.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/539680-biden-seems-set-to-pick-fight-over-rahm-emanuel
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On February 22 2021 10:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Just gonna point out (completely unrelated to the student debt discussion) that the pandemic has proven that theories about how technology and online learning *should* change education are wildly overstated.
People, as a group, do much worse at learning and obtaining/retaining an education via online/self-paced learning.
As someone with two kids under 10, I concur. I've always known I would be a terrible teacher, but damn if this version of school isn't the worst for my children. Although my perception of college age students is a tad different, I would not be surprised if I am wrong. I learned my whole profession at home without instruction, so I am colored by that in regards to knowledge acquisition and retention remotely for young adults.
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On February 22 2021 11:34 dp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2021 10:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Just gonna point out (completely unrelated to the student debt discussion) that the pandemic has proven that theories about how technology and online learning *should* change education are wildly overstated.
People, as a group, do much worse at learning and obtaining/retaining an education via online/self-paced learning. As someone with two kids under 10, I concur. I've always known I would be a terrible teacher, but damn if this version of school isn't the worst for my children. Although my perception of college age students is a tad different, I would not be surprised if I am wrong. I learned my whole profession at home without instruction, so I am colored by that in regards to knowledge acquisition and retention remotely for young adults.
Both undergraduate and graduate students are doing just as poorly as minors (of all ages) are with online instruction.
It just doesn't work on any sort of large scale. It is too impersonal, too inconsistent, too unreliable and inaccessible, and relies too much on a particular type of personal motivation that is almost never taught to people as children, meaning they won't have it as adults.
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On February 22 2021 11:28 Zambrah wrote:
Biden wants to pick a fight over fucking Rahm Emmanuel, the shitbag who tried to cover up the death of Laquan McDonald at the hands of the police.
Though sketchy, Emmanuel sounds like a party loyalist, so a party liner like Biden definitely sees the importance in rewarding people like that. It's only upsetting if you were under the erroneous assumption that Biden was looking to make a difference rather than, at best, providing a reset to a slightly lesser clone of the Obama years.
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On February 22 2021 11:58 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2021 11:28 Zambrah wrote:
Biden wants to pick a fight over fucking Rahm Emmanuel, the shitbag who tried to cover up the death of Laquan McDonald at the hands of the police. Though sketchy, Emmanuel sounds like a party loyalist, so a party liner like Biden definitely sees the importance in rewarding people like that. It's only upsetting if you were under the erroneous assumption that Biden was looking to make a difference rather than, at best, providing a reset to a slightly lesser clone of the Obama years.
I disagree, I'm perfectly capable of channeling my brutal pessimistic cynicism into being upset. 
I agree with the rest though, and I certainly didn't go into a Biden presidency expecting him to do anything beyond be a half-hearted low tier Obama reset.
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On February 22 2021 11:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2021 11:34 dp wrote:On February 22 2021 10:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Just gonna point out (completely unrelated to the student debt discussion) that the pandemic has proven that theories about how technology and online learning *should* change education are wildly overstated.
People, as a group, do much worse at learning and obtaining/retaining an education via online/self-paced learning. As someone with two kids under 10, I concur. I've always known I would be a terrible teacher, but damn if this version of school isn't the worst for my children. Although my perception of college age students is a tad different, I would not be surprised if I am wrong. I learned my whole profession at home without instruction, so I am colored by that in regards to knowledge acquisition and retention remotely for young adults. Both undergraduate and graduate students are doing just as poorly as minors (of all ages) are with online instruction. It just doesn't work on any sort of large scale. It is too impersonal, too inconsistent, too unreliable and inaccessible, and relies too much on a particular type of personal motivation that is almost never taught to people as children, meaning they won't have it as adults.
Pretty much. Technology can act as a useful supplement with select lessons, but fortunately there isn't a serious push for anything as drastic as permanent remote learning (before or after this whole pandemic issue started).
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On February 22 2021 11:28 Zambrah wrote:Biden wants to pick a fight over fucking Rahm Emmanuel, the shitbag who tried to cover up the death of Laquan McDonald at the hands of the police. Fuck fighting for Rahm Emmanuel, spend that energy fighting for a 15 dollar minimum wage, or stimulus checks Biden. Pick a nonshitbird to be the ambassador to Japan. Biden also seems interested in fighting over Neera Tanden for OMB. Why is this where he wants to apply his fighting spirit, lol. This is the Democrat version of the Brett Kavanaugh situation. We need to stop trying so hard to give controversial assholes power, surely the country can do better than Neera Tanden and Rahm Emmanuel. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/539680-biden-seems-set-to-pick-fight-over-rahm-emanuel
Biden fighting to put corrupt/despicable people in power is no surprise. Manchin balking on Tanden is funny to me (he voted for Kavanaugh), but I'd like to see someone like Bernie have the self-respect not to support her either.
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Its not surpising, but I will always do my best to be upset when bad things happen, lol
Manchin not voting for Tanden is also very weird, yeah, I'll say good on him for that but him acting as the Democrat's excuse to fuck over the working class still has me hating his guts. 
And Bernie's been disappointing, I'll never not respect him but he is just way too conciliatory for my tastes. He needs to actually DO something with his budget chairman position, elsewise hes just another useless Democrat. I really hope he takes a stand on the 15 dollar minimum wage, because otherwise hes just going to be, what, approving Biden appointees? He'll be good for basically nothing.
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On February 22 2021 13:00 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2021 11:28 Zambrah wrote:Biden wants to pick a fight over fucking Rahm Emmanuel, the shitbag who tried to cover up the death of Laquan McDonald at the hands of the police. Fuck fighting for Rahm Emmanuel, spend that energy fighting for a 15 dollar minimum wage, or stimulus checks Biden. Pick a nonshitbird to be the ambassador to Japan. Biden also seems interested in fighting over Neera Tanden for OMB. Why is this where he wants to apply his fighting spirit, lol. This is the Democrat version of the Brett Kavanaugh situation. We need to stop trying so hard to give controversial assholes power, surely the country can do better than Neera Tanden and Rahm Emmanuel. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/539680-biden-seems-set-to-pick-fight-over-rahm-emanuel Biden fighting to put corrupt/despicable people in power is no surprise. Manchin balking on Tanden is funny to me (he voted for Kavanaugh), but I'd like to see someone like Bernie have the self-respect not to support her either.
As sad as it is to admit, Bernie doesn't really seem to have self-respect. The man will fight and shout and get angry when people are mistreated, but when people attack him he just kind of takes it lying down.
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On February 22 2021 10:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2021 09:37 dp wrote:On February 21 2021 15:56 WombaT wrote:
Bit of a ramble but what is university/college meant to be? If it’s merely a means to get professional advancement and some knowledge, that process could be hugely streamlined. If it’s meant to be a place where people can learn things and expand their horizons, and marks the transition from youth to adulthood via fun experiences, then I’d say it’s not optimally set up to do that either. I get a lot of what you are saying in the rest of your post but I wanted to hone in on this as well. There is no reason, at all, that traditional college education should not be completely changed by technology by now. Costs should be dropping in every aspect. Besides specific studies that require hands on application such as lab work, there is no reason besides the fact that incoming students want "the college experience". Or it is being pushed on them. I don't cast the blame on either side individually, but much to your view of dual expectations I wonder which side is fueling increases. I lean towards one but haven't looked at the numbers to support my intuition. Just gonna point out (completely unrelated to the student debt discussion) that the pandemic has proven that theories about how technology and online learning *should* change education are wildly overstated. People, as a group, do much worse at learning and obtaining/retaining an education via online/self-paced learning.
Do you have a link to this research? I wonder how anybody would think that online teaching would be better.
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Northern Ireland26078 Posts
On February 22 2021 09:37 dp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2021 15:56 WombaT wrote:
Bit of a ramble but what is university/college meant to be? If it’s merely a means to get professional advancement and some knowledge, that process could be hugely streamlined. If it’s meant to be a place where people can learn things and expand their horizons, and marks the transition from youth to adulthood via fun experiences, then I’d say it’s not optimally set up to do that either. I get a lot of what you are saying in the rest of your post but I wanted to hone in on this as well. There is no reason, at all, that traditional college education should not be completely changed by technology by now. Costs should be dropping in every aspect. Besides specific studies that require hands on application such as lab work, there is no reason besides the fact that incoming students want "the college experience". Or it is being pushed on them. I don't cast the blame on either side individually, but much to your view of dual expectations I wonder which side is fueling increases. I lean towards one but haven't looked at the numbers to support my intuition.
Should be but they're not because structurally how it is configured, how it dovetails with society and the wider culture and where the incentives are are not especially well-aligned.
I recall a press release from some industry body representing various British companies that was complaining that college graduates didn't have the requisite skills coming out of college to be working in industry out of the gate. For curiosity's sake I looked for basic entry level jobs in a few of the companies, really really basic admin etc. They were almost all gated by (completely needlessly) requiring a bachelors degree to merely apply for them!
It's no wonder people make the 'bad decision' to go to college when employers are simultaneously saying that college isn't conferring additionally useful skills to employees but still insisting upon them as a pre-requisite. I'm extremely biased in this regard from many silly personal experiences and floating around for years until saying fuck it I'm going back to school.
The key difference between the States and here is levels of magnitude of the debt accrued to worst-case open the kind of doors to employment that shouldn't be shut in the first place.
@Stratos I'm sure plenty of people have made the argument that technology would improve education in the kind of ways you're talking about. I wouldn't have put forward that kind of argument myself, for the reasons you mention. On a more basic level technology greatly reduces the cost of reproduction and access to learning materials, but costs have been consistently rising against that base reality. Indeed we've had the whole of this academic year under pandemic conditions which has sucked for many people, but no reduction in fees for a clearly reduced experience despite the best efforts of faculty.
Technology has opened up the ability to learn a crazy amount of useful information in one's own time, but as yet largely there's nothing much to connect this potential into tertiary education. You either do a degree at the pace the degree is taught, and can supplement this with your own independent knowledge, and of course having the useful framework of expertise to guide and shape your own learning is helpful.
There's not really a pathway to say, having learned coding independently in your own time, to sit exams that would give you a bachelor's degree if you nailed them. In the same way you can learn on your own and pay to sit various professional exams. That would be the kind of failure to harness technology I'm mentioning, in the sense there's not really a smooth link between independent learning and getting qualifications.
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On February 22 2021 19:43 WombaT wrote:It's no wonder people make the 'bad decision' to go to college when employers are simultaneously saying that college isn't conferring additionally useful skills to employees but still insisting upon them as a pre-requisite. I'm extremely biased in this regard from many silly personal experiences and floating around for years until saying fuck it I'm going back to school. Getting a college degree takes a certain level of commitment and requiring one is just an easy way for companies to screen out the "rifraf". regardless of the skills the degree supposedly represents.
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On February 22 2021 21:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2021 19:43 WombaT wrote:It's no wonder people make the 'bad decision' to go to college when employers are simultaneously saying that college isn't conferring additionally useful skills to employees but still insisting upon them as a pre-requisite. I'm extremely biased in this regard from many silly personal experiences and floating around for years until saying fuck it I'm going back to school. Getting a college degree takes a certain level of commitment and requiring one is just an easy way for companies to screen out the "rifraf". regardless of the skills the degree supposedly represents.
One of the many problems with that logic, of course, is that there is a literal paywall that restricts some potential students from accessing a college education, regardless of their work ethic. But I'm sure many employers are fine with weeding out those perceived "riff raff" too 
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The college degree requirement is just lazy HR.
No offense to any HR staff in this thread, but if you have all these metrics to choose employees, and we try to limit "gut" decisions, why do we even need HR? You can write a script to go through a flow chart.
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After about 1 year from the start of the pandemic, the US has just passed a major grim milestone, 500k deaths from coronavirus.
www.washingtonpost.com
Twice as many as the next one on the list (Brazil, at 246k).
Now that Biden is president, the anti-mask movement seems to have died down somewhat, is this your experience as well?
Edit: Looks like the modelling is starting to become more accurate www.nature.com. These guys looked at different scenarios and found that without a mask mandate from September 2020:
cumulatively, 511,373 (469,578–578,347) lives could be lost to COVID-19 across the United States by 28 February 2021.
While with a mask mandate, 130k lives could have been saved:
We find that achieving universal mask use (95% mask use in public) could be sufficient to ameliorate the worst effects of epidemic resurgences in many states. Universal mask use could save an additional 129,574 (85,284–170,867) lives from September 22, 2020 through the end of February 2021, or an additional 95,814 (60,731–133,077) lives assuming a lesser adoption of mask wearing (85%), when compared to the reference scenario.
This one is on Trump.
Edit2: More people have died of covid in the US since september because of the anti-mask movement than all US military casualties combined since WW2, which includes 5 major wars. en.wikipedia.org
It really didn't have to be this bad.
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On February 22 2021 22:19 EnDeR_ wrote:After about 1 year from the start of the pandemic, the US has just passed a major grim milestone, 500k deaths from coronavirus. www.washingtonpost.comTwice as many as the next one on the list (Brazil, at 246k). Now that Biden is president, the anti-mask movement seems to have died down somewhat, is this your experience as well? Edit: Looks like the modelling is starting to become more accurate www.nature.com. These guys looked at different scenarios and found that without a mask mandate from September 2020: Show nested quote +cumulatively, 511,373 (469,578–578,347) lives could be lost to COVID-19 across the United States by 28 February 2021. While with a mask mandate, 130k lives could have been saved: Show nested quote +We find that achieving universal mask use (95% mask use in public) could be sufficient to ameliorate the worst effects of epidemic resurgences in many states. Universal mask use could save an additional 129,574 (85,284–170,867) lives from September 22, 2020 through the end of February 2021, or an additional 95,814 (60,731–133,077) lives assuming a lesser adoption of mask wearing (85%), when compared to the reference scenario. This one is on Trump. Edit2: More people have died of covid in the US since september because of the anti-mask movement than all US military casualties combined since WW2, which includes 5 major wars. en.wikipedia.orgIt really didn't have to be this bad.
I think this desire to single out Masks is a distraction, and Trump bears a lot of the blame. Neither wearing nor not wearing masks should be a political symbol, just as any other measure should not be.
I saw a mask model in December predicting Norway would have astronomic death tolls at this time without "universal masks", needless to say, it did not turn out like that, at all... You should be very careful making calculations like that.
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SCOTUS ruled against Trump on his last ditch attempt to shield his tax returns from the Manhattan DA's office, those returns may yet see daylight.
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On February 22 2021 09:33 Mohdoo wrote:
Again, no one is arguing a bachelors degree isn't worth it. I am not sure who you are arguing with, but it doesn't appear to be anyone on this board. I'd say this conversation has run its course and I wish you the best.
A bachelors degree is worth it to the individual, but it is not worth it to society. We basically have commons problem in education right now.
On February 22 2021 22:17 Sadist wrote:
The college degree requirement is just lazy HR.
No offense to any HR staff in this thread, but if you have all these metrics to choose employees, and we try to limit "gut" decisions, why do we even need HR? You can write a script to go through a flow chart.
Not exactly lazy HR, although in some cases probably. HR really doesn't have better options. HS grades are mostly useless, certainly its almost impossible to compare across different school districts. And if HR asks for SAT/ACT scores (or imposes their own pre-employment exam) they are venturing into a legally grey area where they are likely to be sued if the company is big enough.
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EPT
