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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2849

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
November 22 2020 16:40 GMT
#56961
They're doing a third recount in GA. This will never end.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22286 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-22 16:45:38
November 22 2020 16:44 GMT
#56962
On November 23 2020 01:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
They're doing a third recount in GA. This will never end.
The whole tactic is to drag things out in the hope that time runs out and Governors appoint electors who will overwrite the actual vote.

The previous recount was done by the state itself, to give the message that all was well. Their mistake was thinking Trump was a rational person.
This recount is his campaign requesting one because the result is close, as is their right. There is no further appeal to recount after this.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
November 22 2020 16:51 GMT
#56963
That's what I meant in my previous, previous post. There should be a way for Biden to just "take" over when nonsense like this is all that is keeping the transition from taking place. There is no way for trump to get the election overturned through legitimate means. So this farce is playing out before the world. I wouldn't be shocked if Biden was already in communication with other world leaders setting things up for when this crap is going on.

This shouldn't be allowed when the conclusion is forgone.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-22 17:26:26
November 22 2020 17:26 GMT
#56964
He can get the transition funds by suing Emily Murphy after a majority of electoral votes have been certified, if she doesn't immediately give them then. That hasn't quite happened yet (I think it happens throughout this week).

The other parts of the transition are a little different and I'm not sure a court order would be obeyed (these are essentially the security briefings etc.)
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
November 22 2020 18:25 GMT
#56965
On November 23 2020 01:44 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2020 01:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
They're doing a third recount in GA. This will never end.
The whole tactic is to drag things out in the hope that time runs out and Governors appoint electors who will overwrite the actual vote.

The previous recount was done by the state itself, to give the message that all was well. Their mistake was thinking Trump was a rational person.
This recount is his campaign requesting one because the result is close, as is their right. There is no further appeal to recount after this.


With this recount being done by machines, it will actually be a much faster recount. We will have the results before Friday I bet
Something witty
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
November 22 2020 18:52 GMT
#56966
Not with the holidays coming up. Try next week.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
November 22 2020 19:06 GMT
#56967
On November 23 2020 03:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Not with the holidays coming up. Try next week.


Okay, that is fair. I did not factor that in
Something witty
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
November 22 2020 19:07 GMT
#56968
On November 23 2020 04:06 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2020 03:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Not with the holidays coming up. Try next week.


Okay, that is fair. I did not factor that in

All good. I just read it on NPR mobile but couldn't find the link to post it.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10384 Posts
November 22 2020 20:49 GMT
#56969
On November 22 2020 13:46 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2020 09:36 FlaShFTW wrote:
On November 22 2020 09:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still think the whole situation with so many people religiously believing in the 'stolen election' is really scary, with how far republican figureheads are taking it. It's just madness and so damaging. If the results were actually very close some weird shit might've happened.

But the way the courts keep slapping down their bullshit cases down is pretty satisfying. District court of Pennsylvania:

In this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs (collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by Pennsylvanians from all corners – from Greene County to Pike County, and everywhere in between. In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated.

One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened.

Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice


https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.202.0_1.pdf

As a law student: LMAO. This was an absolute hilarious decision to read. If I ever really need a quick buck in exchange for any morals that I might have, I'll just reach out to the Republican Party and spend a year arguing bullshit legal arguments for them.

It was reported last week that Giuliani asked 20k a day for this lol

His response to getting chewed out by the judge is that it was always the plan to lose big so that the case can be appealed to the supreme court faster. He also attacks the judge for being 'Obama appointed' but the judge is a republican Federalist Society member...


Luckily if federalist society judges are ruling this way and giving these scathing opinions, then there's hope that the Supreme Court will hold the same way come their time to hear the oral arguments. I'm fairly confident on Roberts voting with the liberals, and probably Gorsuch would join them. Thomas, Alito, ACB definitely don't have the most confidence in them and Kavanaugh is also unknown to me.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5713 Posts
November 22 2020 20:56 GMT
#56970
I really have complete faith in the Supreme Court when it comes to these recounts and claims of election fraud. Unless Trump's legal team has some hidden evidence that is 100% damning that can't be argued against.

Even the Republican judges know they can't just give Trump the election even if they like him. Even they have some form respect for the country/constitution that "trumps" Trump.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
November 22 2020 21:00 GMT
#56971
On November 23 2020 05:56 Zooper31 wrote:
I really have complete faith in the Supreme Court when it comes to these recounts and claims of election fraud. Unless Trump's legal team has some hidden evidence that is 100% damning that can't be argued against.

Even the Republican judges know they can't just give Trump the election even if they like him. Even they have some form respect for the country/constitution that "trumps" Trump.

One of the funny/stupid things about the withholding of smoking gun evidence until SCOTUS (which Trump's lawyers have said they're doing) is that generally the factual record is set in hard stone by that point up the appeal chain.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 22 2020 21:04 GMT
#56972
The Trump team rhetoric has never matched what they’re actually filing in court. Anyone with a brain knows this is dead at the Supreme Court. He exhausts his legal challenges and wastes a lot more money and walks out of office next year.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 22 2020 21:05 GMT
#56973
On November 23 2020 06:00 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2020 05:56 Zooper31 wrote:
I really have complete faith in the Supreme Court when it comes to these recounts and claims of election fraud. Unless Trump's legal team has some hidden evidence that is 100% damning that can't be argued against.

Even the Republican judges know they can't just give Trump the election even if they like him. Even they have some form respect for the country/constitution that "trumps" Trump.

One of the funny/stupid things about the withholding of smoking gun evidence until SCOTUS (which Trump's lawyers have said they're doing) is that generally the factual record is set in hard stone by that point up the appeal chain.

They've said they're doing that in public. They've not said they're doing it in court (where there are consequences for lying).

On November 23 2020 06:04 Danglars wrote:
The Trump team rhetoric has never matched what they’re actually filing in court. Anyone with a brain knows this is dead at the Supreme Court. He exhausts his legal challenges and wastes a lot more money and walks out of office next year.

Something like half of all republicans disagree. Which is pretty sad.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-22 21:55:28
November 22 2020 21:54 GMT
#56974
On November 22 2020 22:07 WombaT wrote:
Which is insane but quite comforting solely because I’d heard the number was 84% the other day.

The 84% I believe was in reference to people who believe the election was unfair. The gap is most likely people who felt the election was unfair, but that Biden won anyway.

They're the Republican crowd who have been crying about voter fraud and wanting things like voter ID laws for years (even before Trump was president) in spite of all the evidence that voter fraud never happens at an appreciable rate to actually alter election outcomes, but also know that Trump is a shit candidate who probably didn't win anyway.
Moderator
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
November 22 2020 22:00 GMT
#56975
On November 23 2020 06:00 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2020 05:56 Zooper31 wrote:
I really have complete faith in the Supreme Court when it comes to these recounts and claims of election fraud. Unless Trump's legal team has some hidden evidence that is 100% damning that can't be argued against.

Even the Republican judges know they can't just give Trump the election even if they like him. Even they have some form respect for the country/constitution that "trumps" Trump.

One of the funny/stupid things about the withholding of smoking gun evidence until SCOTUS (which Trump's lawyers have said they're doing) is that generally the factual record is set in hard stone by that point up the appeal chain.


Even prior to Trump's presidency it has been we have evidence that we'll show you eventually. The problem for Trump is he can't create another scandal to divert attention from him losing the election. There won't be another scandal that diverts attention in two weeks so people forget about this one.

Tax returns stands out at the starting point, but maybe there was something before that.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
November 22 2020 22:04 GMT
#56976
On November 22 2020 22:07 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2020 21:29 iamthedave wrote:
On November 22 2020 14:15 NewSunshine wrote:
On November 22 2020 13:56 Zooper31 wrote:
Saw some White House press briefing where the press secretary tried to defend Trump's actions by saying everyone has forgotten how Trump's election victory was handled. How his transition process was anything but smooth and that his election was never recognized. Went on to name all the accounts of the various disheartening things the Democrats have done to Trump over the last 4years.

All I could think in my head was, "So you're telling me, he's doing this out of spite? He's fundamentally hurting the foundation this country was built on by de-legitimizing our elections because he's mad people treated him poorly?"

Get the fuck over it. I can't believe so many people voted for this man.

It feels like every day at least Trump's fight to stop Biden from entering office is dwindling and this will all be over within a month. Yes, I said a month, I really do think that's how long he's gonna attempt to drag this on.

Hillary conceded the day after Election Day, and Obama's team went to great lengths to ensure that the transfer of power would be smooth. There's a clip you can find of the press sec making this bullshit allegation and then cutting back to 2016/17 with Trump directly contradicting her as he thanks Obama for the great transition. It is 100% Orwellian interpretation of reality. Down is up. Ignorance is power.

Trump is casting the first stone. That isn't the standard for the President, but he is sure as hell the one deciding on his own to be an absolute shitlord to his successor. He needs to be shown that that is comprehensively unacceptable.


Except 50% of Republicans believe Trump actually won. To a good portion of your fellow citizens this isn't unacceptable, it's pursuit of justice.

Which is insane but quite comforting solely because I’d heard the number was 84% the other day.

Of course no doubt this will be framed in some quarters as the ostensible left’s fault for being mean to Trump’s base and not understanding their grievances or what have you.


Unless I misread - which is possible - I believe 84% believed that there was some doubt in the results but only 50% actually believe Trump won.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26703 Posts
November 22 2020 22:15 GMT
#56977
Cheers Yango and Dave, the podcast I was listening to did quote the number correctly in context, I made the mistake as to what ‘believed the election was unfair’ meant.

Merci!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
November 22 2020 23:22 GMT
#56978
On November 23 2020 06:04 Danglars wrote:
The Trump team rhetoric has never matched what they’re actually filing in court. Anyone with a brain knows this is dead at the Supreme Court. He exhausts his legal challenges and wastes a lot more money and walks out of office next year.

If the majority of Republicans believed as you do then this would be more comforting. They do not.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26703 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-11-23 01:08:51
November 23 2020 01:07 GMT
#56979
On November 23 2020 08:22 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2020 06:04 Danglars wrote:
The Trump team rhetoric has never matched what they’re actually filing in court. Anyone with a brain knows this is dead at the Supreme Court. He exhausts his legal challenges and wastes a lot more money and walks out of office next year.

If the majority of Republicans believed as you do then this would be more comforting. They do not.

The Dangly One is as tapped in to the pulse of these people as I am, I.e not very. Which isn’t to denigrate or venerate either of our insights, but basic normal people parameters don’t seem to apply whatsoever.

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 23 2020 01:32 GMT
#56980
On November 23 2020 10:07 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2020 08:22 NewSunshine wrote:
On November 23 2020 06:04 Danglars wrote:
The Trump team rhetoric has never matched what they’re actually filing in court. Anyone with a brain knows this is dead at the Supreme Court. He exhausts his legal challenges and wastes a lot more money and walks out of office next year.

If the majority of Republicans believed as you do then this would be more comforting. They do not.

The Dangly One is as tapped in to the pulse of these people as I am, I.e not very. Which isn’t to denigrate or venerate either of our insights, but basic normal people parameters don’t seem to apply whatsoever.


I think most people here wouldn’t identify with the 2/3 of Democrats that thought that it was definitely or probably true that Russia tampered with vote tallies to get Trump elected in 2016 (polled at the 2018 midterms). It’s a bipartisan problem, but Republicans look to be pulling into the lead (and it would be comforting if at least one party wouldn’t have big majorities alleging it, to be sure).
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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