EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2568
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
It’s a serious charge, considering how the DCCC acted like thugs to force primary challengers to not use normal campaign vendors. Basically, if you work with primary challengers to the party-preferred incumbents, you’re not doing work with the big money guys ever again. This story alleges that primary challengers with big money are doing an end run around the restrictions. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23895 Posts
On August 21 2020 04:49 JimmiC wrote: Then what does this tell us? I think your sweeping generalization is more of confirmation bias than it is some epiphany. Tells you that Pelosi isn't a complete moron that would oppose the most popular new incumbents in the house and endorse sure losers for no political gain. On August 21 2020 04:53 Danglars wrote: I read the news about Pelosi and expected fireworks. She’s trying to head off AOC and obviously does not think her coalition is the future of the party (or not if she can help it) https://twitter.com/aoc/status/1296500161003364357 It’s a serious charge, considering how the DCCC acted like thugs to force primary challengers to not use normal campaign vendors. Basically, if you work with primary challengers to the party-preferred incumbents, you’re not doing work with the big money guys ever again. This story alleges that primary challengers with big money are doing an end run around the restrictions. Democrats have abandoned the pretense about giving a damn about campaign financing and the powerbrokers that prevent social democratic policy too. If it can't be blamed on Republicans it is unfortunate, but unavoidable (and "not as bad as Trump!"). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23895 Posts
the only people who think it is a big deal are the people who hate the Dems the most. Some people have an ethical and moral bar Democrats regularly fail to clear and see the acceptance of such naked self-interested behavior in contradiction of their purported values as unacceptably deplorable. Some Democrats at least pretend to be disapproving supporters of stuff like this though. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23895 Posts
On August 21 2020 05:44 JimmiC wrote: And those who have you have raked across the coals for letting the Republicans walk over. Same same. That got completely incoherent pretty quickly. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 21 2020 05:34 JimmiC wrote: I'm really unsure what about this is new or shocking. Pelosi is a 80 year old moderate Democrat. She is going to put her support behind similar Democrats. Now if there are enough progressive voters it won't matter, and how many progressive voters are going to be swayed by Pelosi? It is a nothing burger story trying to make something mundane dramatic, and it is not at all surprising that the only people who think it is a big deal are the people who hate the Dems the most. If the Dem's don't take the money and fight the Reps you will say how they are too weak and blah blah. If they do then they are evil. They have absolutely zero chance of ever making you happy. It's a big story because it's massively hypocritical and they aren't taking the big money to fight republicans : they're taking it to fight less conservative democrats. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
I hope Kennedy gets bodied by Markey, and I hope as Progressives force their way through they get increasingly adversarial to Democrats as well as Republicans, this "party unity" bullshit will only ever exist when it can be used to prevent necessary change. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23895 Posts
On August 21 2020 09:47 Mohdoo wrote: Pelosi is 80 years old. No shit she's conservative. The party slowly becoming more progressive is not the same thing as Pelosi pulling off a mask to reveal Karl Marx. She's not more progressive, people are. She's 80 freaking years old. Markey and Sanders are both septuagenarians and joining the developed world in the most basic social democratic safety nets hardly a Marx impersonation. What really gets me is how low Democrat have set their bar that a conservative like Pelosi calling Trump fat or ripping up a speech passes for laudable among them. Warren's BLM kids blocks being praised is another recent example of the sad state Democrats are in. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 21 2020 09:47 Mohdoo wrote: Pelosi is 80 years old. No shit she's conservative. The party slowly becoming more progressive is not the same thing as Pelosi pulling off a mask to reveal Karl Marx. She's not more progressive, people are. She's 80 freaking years old. You’ve never seen older party members handing it off to the young? Or is Bernie some kind of age traitor and you harbor disgust for him in proportion to understanding for Pelosi? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 21 2020 10:09 Danglars wrote: You’ve never seen older party members handing it off to the young? Or is Bernie some kind of age traitor and you harbor disgust for him in proportion to understanding for Pelosi? There's plenty of old super liberal people, but the idea that Pelosi, someone who has held her position for 3453464367 years, should be expected to be totally current with the latest political advancement is silly. We have no reason to think her district would elect someone super progressive rather than her. Bernie is super liberal and is basically handing his torch to AOC in a lot of ways. I guess someone like Harris is more in line with Pelosi. My point is that a culture can change without elders and we shouldn't give a shit who Pelosi is endorsing as if it is surprising to us. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On August 21 2020 10:09 Danglars wrote: You’ve never seen older party members handing it off to the young? Or is Bernie some kind of age traitor and you harbor disgust for him in proportion to understanding for Pelosi? Bernie is an independent. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On August 21 2020 10:14 Mohdoo wrote: There's plenty of old super liberal people, but the idea that Pelosi, someone who has held her position for 3453464367 years, should be expected to be totally current with the latest political advancement is silly. We have no reason to think her district would elect someone super progressive rather than her. Bernie is super liberal and is basically handing his torch to AOC in a lot of ways. I guess someone like Harris is more in line with Pelosi. My point is that a culture can change without elders and we shouldn't give a shit who Pelosi is endorsing as if it is surprising to us. But as one of the most powerful members of the DNC shouldn't we look to someone like her to examine where the party's priorities are? It seems important to care who she endorses and who she helps to primary because it indicates where a broad base of power within the DNC lies with regards to things like Progressivism. I agree that its not surprising, most of the Democrats are basically like her and we've known this forever, but I think its important to care about how the DNC is choosing to use its resources with regards to the down ballot races, and Pelosi is a big indicator for the party at large given her status within it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 21 2020 10:21 Zambrah wrote: But as one of the most powerful members of the DNC shouldn't we look to someone like her to examine where the party's priorities are? It seems important to care who she endorses and who she helps to primary because it indicates where a broad base of power within the DNC lies with regards to things like Progressivism. I agree that its not surprising, most of the Democrats are basically like her and we've known this forever, but I think its important to care about how the DNC is choosing to use its resources with regards to the down ballot races, and Pelosi is a big indicator for the party at large given her status within it. Sure, and just like all other coalitions, a sudden spike in a certain movement does not mean the entire tent is chanting "eat the rich". This is like someone starting a new diet and telling themselves they need to try something else after running 1 mile. Obesity isn't solved overnight and neither is conservatism. A fundamental quality of conservatism is the idea that it prefers the old thing. As more progressives win, the party will get more progressive because it will be composed of more progressives. Keep in mind there was a time when there weren't enough democrats to legalize interracial marriage. Those people who pushed for ending interracial marriage, do you think all of them are now also saying abolish insurance, roll out UBI and abolish police? The progressives of the 70s are the obstructionists of 2020. Not all of them, but a lot. The idea of waiting for people to die so progress can be made has been true for thousands of years. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23895 Posts
She's revealing her conservative opposition to policy she purportedly supported and would have implemented years ago if it weren't for the dastardly Republicans. Biden, Harris, Kennedy all represent the position that Democrat voters are too oblivious, desperate, and/or pathetic to realize this readily identifiable pattern of promising policy you actually oppose and blaming Republicans for when it doesn't happen. Only to be revealed later as actually opposing it with no fear of accountability or much more than a shrug and "that's how it works" from the people who say they want it too but will be fine without it. | ||
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