|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
Unidentifiable little green men in Washington now Special Response team from Bureau of Prisons deployed on the street
|
|
|
On June 04 2020 03:01 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 02:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 04 2020 01:44 Erasme wrote:On June 04 2020 01:38 Sadist wrote:On June 04 2020 01:29 Erasme wrote:On June 04 2020 01:13 MWY wrote:On June 03 2020 22:33 Erasme wrote:On June 03 2020 22:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:On June 03 2020 21:29 thePunGun wrote:On June 03 2020 21:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[quote]
Sorry to burst your bubble but I was also taught that social democrats did help Hitler gain power. The way we were taught it happened was due to social democrats not wanting antifacist to gain more power since antifa was considered communist, and the Nazi party (who claimed they were socialist) along with socialist democrats both took part in having antifa lose power.
Now I’m not saying socialist democrats didn’t try to stop it, but they did help solidify Nazis to gain more power over antifa. Well, if you're making false and inaccurate statements, you'll have to at least point to the source, which came up with this nonsense. Unless of course you've just pulled it out of your ass, because it sure as F smells like that. How about you teach me instead of talking out of your ass too? I said this was how it was taught to me, when? Idk it was like more than 15 years ago. Nothing online is going to prove my point, but there’s a few articles that state the SPD did nothing for a couple years, which led to the rise of Nazis... https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-republic-fragility-democracy/readings/choices-and-consequences
Unwilling to confront the challenge of dealing with the great depression the Social Democrats stayed out of the government. Their decision allowed the erosion of legislative government to take place in the period from 1930-1932 seriously weakening the Weimar Republic and contributing to its failure.
Am I wrong? Sure, but I was just stating that I learned that SPD also didn’t like communists, which aligned with early Nazi propaganda- against communist. Edit: I may also be mixing things up, but either way, if I’m wrong please just show me why I’m wrong it’s better than just telling me I’m wrong, I like learning. As I mentioned I’m just stating how I was taught in school, maybe this is why we have a fuck ton of Americans who think socialism is bad? While this is slightly off topic, if doing nothing is now considered as helping Hitler, the whole Europe helped him by not invading earlier. If I remember Rise&Fall of the Third Reich correctly, social democrats got pushed out of the government because the people felt (wrongly) that the gov had given up on the military during the first ww. If you add that to the great depression + the communist menace, you get people voting for Hitler. Feel free to correct me as it's been a long time. Well, there was the "Dolchstoßlegende" (which basically said germany didn't militarily lose WW1 (although it was about to)), which was pushed by conservative/nationalist forces blaming the political enemy for a premature surrender. The main issue in my opinion was the versailles-treaty (which was both seen as an insult, but evenly important forced germany to pay insanely high reparations and concede economically relevant parts of it's land) combined with the economic challenges that came later during that time. That lead to very little options for the governing parties in terms of actually changing the situation and that lead to extremist parties like the KPD and the NSDAP rising. Both extremist parties actually targeted/fought the socialdemocrats the most, while Hitler claimed power with the support of the center-conservate party. While there are certainly errors within the strategy of the SPD, there was not much that could have been done to change anything. There was no lifting or changing the versailles-treaty via diplomacy and they were attacked from all sides. In terms of the KPD, I would really like to see why one would consider them even remotely useful in trying to prevent Hitler when they declared the only democratic party to be their main enemy. Most would agree that the treaty of Versailles was wrong, one way or another. It should've been much heavier in my opinion as it would've squashed the question about losing the war and made Germany unable to do anything military side, much like today. @travis Why do you feel so strongly about a central unified government encompassing the earth ? To me it seems like the only way forward. Most people feel that if theres a one world government you have nowhere to escape to if things go poorly. Imagine a situation where there are no refugees because theres literally no other government/countries to take them in. Same for political asylum seekers etc. Yes, because right now, we're all about taking every refugees and politcal asylum seekers. From a purely objective PoV, the faster we're unified, the further we're going to go. Yes? Do you think that people from Niger, the US, Pakistan, Sweden and Japan would agree on the same laws and the same leaders? I'd buy a truck of popcorn watching the debates in the super parliament, really. I didn't say it was realizable now, or even in a close future. However it doesn't take a genius to understand that there is a lot of redundant process if you take every countries in account. Or that an unified planetary government would propell the human race further and faster. But sure let's all sit in our political squabbles til the end of times and hope nothing better ever happens.
I mean, sure, in a hypothetical future where it makes sense why not. It's not remotely in the cards or a good idea whatsoever for a foreseeable future.
I believe that politics is the art of the possible. A world government is more science-fiction than anything else; I don't think it's relevants to today's politics or that it helps to think any of the world's problems. But that's just my opinion.
|
I imagine with the rag tag equipment this isn't (riot) police who hide names to protect themselves and their families but people brought in from outside the DC police department.
|
On June 04 2020 03:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 03:01 Erasme wrote:On June 04 2020 02:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 04 2020 01:44 Erasme wrote:On June 04 2020 01:38 Sadist wrote:On June 04 2020 01:29 Erasme wrote:On June 04 2020 01:13 MWY wrote:On June 03 2020 22:33 Erasme wrote:On June 03 2020 22:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:On June 03 2020 21:29 thePunGun wrote:
[quote]
Well, if you're making false and inaccurate statements, you'll have to at least point to the source, which came up with this nonsense. Unless of course you've just pulled it out of your ass, because it sure as F smells like that.
How about you teach me instead of talking out of your ass too? I said this was how it was taught to me, when? Idk it was like more than 15 years ago. Nothing online is going to prove my point, but there’s a few articles that state the SPD did nothing for a couple years, which led to the rise of Nazis... https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-republic-fragility-democracy/readings/choices-and-consequences
Unwilling to confront the challenge of dealing with the great depression the Social Democrats stayed out of the government. Their decision allowed the erosion of legislative government to take place in the period from 1930-1932 seriously weakening the Weimar Republic and contributing to its failure.
Am I wrong? Sure, but I was just stating that I learned that SPD also didn’t like communists, which aligned with early Nazi propaganda- against communist. Edit: I may also be mixing things up, but either way, if I’m wrong please just show me why I’m wrong it’s better than just telling me I’m wrong, I like learning. As I mentioned I’m just stating how I was taught in school, maybe this is why we have a fuck ton of Americans who think socialism is bad? While this is slightly off topic, if doing nothing is now considered as helping Hitler, the whole Europe helped him by not invading earlier. If I remember Rise&Fall of the Third Reich correctly, social democrats got pushed out of the government because the people felt (wrongly) that the gov had given up on the military during the first ww. If you add that to the great depression + the communist menace, you get people voting for Hitler. Feel free to correct me as it's been a long time. Well, there was the "Dolchstoßlegende" (which basically said germany didn't militarily lose WW1 (although it was about to)), which was pushed by conservative/nationalist forces blaming the political enemy for a premature surrender. The main issue in my opinion was the versailles-treaty (which was both seen as an insult, but evenly important forced germany to pay insanely high reparations and concede economically relevant parts of it's land) combined with the economic challenges that came later during that time. That lead to very little options for the governing parties in terms of actually changing the situation and that lead to extremist parties like the KPD and the NSDAP rising. Both extremist parties actually targeted/fought the socialdemocrats the most, while Hitler claimed power with the support of the center-conservate party. While there are certainly errors within the strategy of the SPD, there was not much that could have been done to change anything. There was no lifting or changing the versailles-treaty via diplomacy and they were attacked from all sides. In terms of the KPD, I would really like to see why one would consider them even remotely useful in trying to prevent Hitler when they declared the only democratic party to be their main enemy. Most would agree that the treaty of Versailles was wrong, one way or another. It should've been much heavier in my opinion as it would've squashed the question about losing the war and made Germany unable to do anything military side, much like today. @travis Why do you feel so strongly about a central unified government encompassing the earth ? To me it seems like the only way forward. Most people feel that if theres a one world government you have nowhere to escape to if things go poorly. Imagine a situation where there are no refugees because theres literally no other government/countries to take them in. Same for political asylum seekers etc. Yes, because right now, we're all about taking every refugees and politcal asylum seekers. From a purely objective PoV, the faster we're unified, the further we're going to go. Yes? Do you think that people from Niger, the US, Pakistan, Sweden and Japan would agree on the same laws and the same leaders? I'd buy a truck of popcorn watching the debates in the super parliament, really. I didn't say it was realizable now, or even in a close future. However it doesn't take a genius to understand that there is a lot of redundant process if you take every countries in account. Or that an unified planetary government would propell the human race further and faster. But sure let's all sit in our political squabbles til the end of times and hope nothing better ever happens. I mean, sure, in a hypothetical future where it makes sense why not. It's not remotely in the cards or a good idea whatsoever for a foreseeable future. I believe that politics is the art of the possible. A world government is more science-fiction than anything else; I don't think it's relevants to today's politics or that it helps to think any of the world's problems. But that's just my opinion.
Science fiction has guided science multiples times. Hard to say it isn't a good idea during this cold war between china and the rest of the world. But yes, it's an ideal that might not be achievable.
Still kinda waiting on why you'd hate this idea so much @travis.
|
Those clearly visible arm patches from the photo kinda say exactly where they are from haha.
Still, kinda a weird deployment.
|
So all four officers received a charge today, with Chauvin getting upgraded to second degree murder. The others got charged with aiding and abetting. There should be more details later today (or already out as of this post) from the AG and family lawyer. I wonder if these charges will quell the protests or not. I don't think they'll speed trial this through though.
Derek Chauvin now faces a charge of second-degree murder, and three other former Minneapolis police officers who were involved in George Floyd's death face charges of aiding and abetting, according to new court documents.
In addition to Chauvin, the three other officers named in criminal complaints are Tou Thao, J Alexander Kueng and Thomas K. Lane.
All four police officers were fired one day after Floyd died on Memorial Day.
Criminal complaints against the four were formally filed Wednesday, according to Brian Bakst of Minnesota Public Radio. Attorney General Keith Ellison is slated to appear at a news conference to discuss the new charges this afternoon.
Chauvin, who is white, was initially charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter in Hennepin County last week, after a video showed he kept his knee on the black man's neck for nearly nine minutes. But the higher charge has now been added, days after Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz asked Ellison to lead the prosecution.
The second-degree murder charge carries a maximum penalty of up to 40 years in prison; the third-degree charge has a 25-year maximum sentence.
Ben Crump, the Floyd family's attorney, issued a statement saying, "This is a bittersweet moment. We are deeply gratified that @AGEllison took decisive action, arresting & charging ALL the officers involved."
The Hennepin County medical examiner has ruled Floyd's death was a homicide, saying on Monday that the 46-year-old's heart and lungs had ceased functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers.
Source
|
On June 04 2020 04:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:So all four officers received a charge today, with Chauvin getting upgraded to second degree murder. The others got charged with aiding and abetting. There should be more details later today (or already out as of this post) from the AG and family lawyer. I wonder if these charges will quell the protests or not. I don't think they'll speed trial this through though. Show nested quote +Derek Chauvin now faces a charge of second-degree murder, and three other former Minneapolis police officers who were involved in George Floyd's death face charges of aiding and abetting, according to new court documents.
In addition to Chauvin, the three other officers named in criminal complaints are Tou Thao, J Alexander Kueng and Thomas K. Lane.
All four police officers were fired one day after Floyd died on Memorial Day.
Criminal complaints against the four were formally filed Wednesday, according to Brian Bakst of Minnesota Public Radio. Attorney General Keith Ellison is slated to appear at a news conference to discuss the new charges this afternoon.
Chauvin, who is white, was initially charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter in Hennepin County last week, after a video showed he kept his knee on the black man's neck for nearly nine minutes. But the higher charge has now been added, days after Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz asked Ellison to lead the prosecution.
The second-degree murder charge carries a maximum penalty of up to 40 years in prison; the third-degree charge has a 25-year maximum sentence.
Ben Crump, the Floyd family's attorney, issued a statement saying, "This is a bittersweet moment. We are deeply gratified that @AGEllison took decisive action, arresting & charging ALL the officers involved."
The Hennepin County medical examiner has ruled Floyd's death was a homicide, saying on Monday that the 46-year-old's heart and lungs had ceased functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers. Source Could he still be sentenced for 3e degree murder if they fail to prove the officer intended to kill Floyd?
If not I have my doubt about this move and could see him actually getting acquitted.
|
On June 04 2020 04:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 04:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:So all four officers received a charge today, with Chauvin getting upgraded to second degree murder. The others got charged with aiding and abetting. There should be more details later today (or already out as of this post) from the AG and family lawyer. I wonder if these charges will quell the protests or not. I don't think they'll speed trial this through though. Derek Chauvin now faces a charge of second-degree murder, and three other former Minneapolis police officers who were involved in George Floyd's death face charges of aiding and abetting, according to new court documents.
In addition to Chauvin, the three other officers named in criminal complaints are Tou Thao, J Alexander Kueng and Thomas K. Lane.
All four police officers were fired one day after Floyd died on Memorial Day.
Criminal complaints against the four were formally filed Wednesday, according to Brian Bakst of Minnesota Public Radio. Attorney General Keith Ellison is slated to appear at a news conference to discuss the new charges this afternoon.
Chauvin, who is white, was initially charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter in Hennepin County last week, after a video showed he kept his knee on the black man's neck for nearly nine minutes. But the higher charge has now been added, days after Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz asked Ellison to lead the prosecution.
The second-degree murder charge carries a maximum penalty of up to 40 years in prison; the third-degree charge has a 25-year maximum sentence.
Ben Crump, the Floyd family's attorney, issued a statement saying, "This is a bittersweet moment. We are deeply gratified that @AGEllison took decisive action, arresting & charging ALL the officers involved."
The Hennepin County medical examiner has ruled Floyd's death was a homicide, saying on Monday that the 46-year-old's heart and lungs had ceased functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers. Source Could he still be sentenced for 3e degree murder if they fail to prove the officer intended to kill Floyd? If not I have my doubt about this move and could see him actually getting acquitted.
Minnesota murder law is unique compared to other jurisdictions so I am also skeptical of the wisdom of this move. I think its hard to prove up a non-self contradicting case for 2nd and 3rd degree because of their unique laws. Manslaughter is still an included offense for both if they fail to proven the intent element.
|
On June 04 2020 04:10 Danglars wrote:Those clearly visible arm patches from the photo kinda say exactly where they are from haha. Still, kinda a weird deployment.
Sorry, you are correct, I had looked at the right photo mostly where its just general flags. Shitty source then.
They are low budget 'SWAT' from the bureau of prisons. But yeah weird deployment.
|
Charges being brought is good, not getting my hopes up until they are in prison, for the first 5 years though. Don't expect the protests to stop considering there's more than enough video just from the last week to justify them escalating.
|
On June 04 2020 05:29 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 04:10 Danglars wrote:Those clearly visible arm patches from the photo kinda say exactly where they are from haha. Still, kinda a weird deployment. Sorry, you are correct, I had looked at the right photo mostly where its just general flags. Shitty source then. They are low budget 'SWAT' from the bureau of prisons. But yeah weird deployment.
It seems a bit weird, but it makes sense if you think about it. If you're looking at it from the perspective that protesters are 'enemies' using DC police has the disadvantage that DC police is made up of people from/or who interact with the local community who might sympathize with the protesters or can easily be identified.
Whereas if you're using Bureau of Prison tactical response teams from across the country you avoid all those problems. No identification, no shared social background between the protesters and enforcement, and prison guards are unlikely to have any misgivings about any orders you might issue.
|
Not sure if this is too off-topic or not... but Drew Brees, NFL quarterback for the Saints, still thinks kneeling for the flag is going too far. Just relevant in light of all the conversation about how people got so upset about it, when the alternative is apparently full on rioting.
The Saints is a 70% black team, some of whom are upset with Brees ( Michael Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders, receivers, posted some criticisms of it).
Brees also posted a black box on instagram in support of BLM yesterday? So yeah, just weird.
|
On June 04 2020 06:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 05:29 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On June 04 2020 04:10 Danglars wrote:Those clearly visible arm patches from the photo kinda say exactly where they are from haha. Still, kinda a weird deployment. Sorry, you are correct, I had looked at the right photo mostly where its just general flags. Shitty source then. They are low budget 'SWAT' from the bureau of prisons. But yeah weird deployment. It seems a bit weird, but it makes sense if you think about it. If you're looking at it from the perspective that protesters are 'enemies' using DC police has the disadvantage that DC police is made up of people from/or who interact with the local community who might sympathize with the protesters or can easily be identified. Whereas if you're using Bureau of Prison tactical response teams from across the country you avoid all those problems. No identification, no shared social background between the protesters and enforcement, and prison guards are unlikely to have any misgivings about any orders you might issue.
They also have 0 training in deescalation
On June 04 2020 06:42 Nevuk wrote:Not sure if this is too off-topic or not... but Drew Brees, NFL quarterback for the Saints, still thinks kneeling for the flag is going too far. Just relevant in light of all the conversation about how people got so upset about it, when the alternative is apparently full on rioting. https://twitter.com/YahooFinance/status/1268206174073126915The Saints is a 70% black team, some of whom are upset with Brees ( Michael Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders, receivers, posted some criticisms of it). Brees also posted a black box on instagram in support of BLM yesterday? So yeah, just weird.
oh boy, he a little too old to be anticipating those lookout blocks
|
Ultimately, as heinous as the actions of these individuals were in the moment, it is not their fault that the country is plagued by systemic racism. Yes they are bad actors who demonstrate this to an extreme degree but they are still merely symptoms of a greater issue. Nothing is gained by letting them rot in jail, though it may be what many feel they deserve. This does nothing but teach the other racists in the country to not get caught and will no doubt be described (ironically, though they may not notice) as a lynching. We have to teach people instead of punishing them. We cannot defeat racism if there are people who genuinely believe for whatever reason that human's merit can be directly correlated to their melanin levels. We must expose these logical fallacies for the fallacies that they are and seek to educate. Otherwise, the racists will scurry into their darkened floorboard crevices and continue to spawn unfortunately deprived, ignorant, racist children. Like cockroaches, racists fear the light of truth and quickly hide when threatened with exposure. In order to exterminate them, we must poison their minds with the seed of truth and be ever vigilant, even when the lights are out.
I hope the protests are not quelled by these platitudes. I hope the discussion continues and there is real, lasting change. I've seen this story play out so many times over the course of my life that I feel, in the end, our wish to see both the protests and the pandemic addressed by a mature adult may be our undoing as we split our attention on two fronts. I want to believe we can do something, but I feel like we are just loading the next rounds into the disinformation machine.
|
The whole symbolism debate about the flag doesn't change depending on one's position about Floyd protests.
|
On June 04 2020 06:50 Danglars wrote:
The whole symbolism debate about the flag doesn't change depending on one's position about Floyd protests.
It is completely ridiculous self-sanctimonious garbage imo. The people complaining about kneeling of course.
|
On June 04 2020 06:48 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 06:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 04 2020 05:29 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On June 04 2020 04:10 Danglars wrote:Those clearly visible arm patches from the photo kinda say exactly where they are from haha. Still, kinda a weird deployment. Sorry, you are correct, I had looked at the right photo mostly where its just general flags. Shitty source then. They are low budget 'SWAT' from the bureau of prisons. But yeah weird deployment. It seems a bit weird, but it makes sense if you think about it. If you're looking at it from the perspective that protesters are 'enemies' using DC police has the disadvantage that DC police is made up of people from/or who interact with the local community who might sympathize with the protesters or can easily be identified. Whereas if you're using Bureau of Prison tactical response teams from across the country you avoid all those problems. No identification, no shared social background between the protesters and enforcement, and prison guards are unlikely to have any misgivings about any orders you might issue. They also have 0 training in deescalation Show nested quote +On June 04 2020 06:42 Nevuk wrote:Not sure if this is too off-topic or not... but Drew Brees, NFL quarterback for the Saints, still thinks kneeling for the flag is going too far. Just relevant in light of all the conversation about how people got so upset about it, when the alternative is apparently full on rioting. https://twitter.com/YahooFinance/status/1268206174073126915The Saints is a 70% black team, some of whom are upset with Brees ( Michael Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders, receivers, posted some criticisms of it). Brees also posted a black box on instagram in support of BLM yesterday? So yeah, just weird. oh boy, he a little too old to be anticipating those lookout blocks
Zero training in de-escalation is probably seen as a feature not a bug if you're a hardliner who thinks the protesters just need to be taught a good lesson about law and order.
|
Norway28689 Posts
On June 04 2020 06:50 Danglars wrote:
The whole symbolism debate about the flag doesn't change depending on one's position about Floyd protests.
I think 'I support their right to protest peacefully but not to riot and loot' and 'they shouldn't kneel during the anthem, that's disrespectful' are difficult to hold in tandem, tbh.
|
Iunno, that pairing seems to fill the "I'm willing to support this as long as it doesn't 1) inconvenience me and 2) doesn't make me feel any less in control and important."
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
