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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
That is American politics, people say they care, nothing changes, we get this ad infinitum 'cause, "BUT THE OTHER GUUUUUY!" is how American politics are done. Pretending like politicians are a real way forward for serious systematic change is asinine. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23671 Posts
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On June 03 2020 11:26 GreenHorizons wrote: Are we going to continue to entertain pk's obtuseness as sincere naivete? I read a blog by someone with that username once and I’m trying to stay as far away as possible. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
Unity is great, but a lot of people disagree, they just shoot a few posts and give up. I'm sticking in this to counterbalance the people I think are crazy, to show that the movement isn't a monolith. Sorry bro. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
Black people continue to be disproportionately murdered by police. Politicians continue to not effect the change that they need to. Protests need to be inconvenient, almost necessarily. If someone who doesn't want to hear your message can turn a dial and tune you out completely, what do you expect to accomplish? Black folks have to live their lives constantly aware that they have extra entries in the police murder lottery, and you're asking them to be civil and play by the rules? The rules were written to fuck them over from the start. It's morally wrong to call them cheaters when they actually try to do something about it. On June 03 2020 12:00 GreenHorizons wrote: I guess you didn't post here before so it's not entirely unreasonable for you to not realize that the people pointing out the absurdity of your position are people that used to take it. Feel like most of them mentioned it recently though. I've had my own character arc, for sure. Trying to give a bit of space for that. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23671 Posts
On June 03 2020 11:44 puppykiller wrote: Personify any contention as the voice of an outsider. Make sure only the most radical voice is heard. Stop pretending you speak for the entire movement. Unity is great, but a lot of people disagree, they just shoot a few posts and give up. I'm sticking in this to counterbalance the people I think are crazy, to show that the movement isn't a monolith. Sorry bro. I guess you didn't post here before so it's not entirely unreasonable for you to not realize that the people pointing out the absurdity of your position are people that used to take it. Feel like most of them mentioned it recently though. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35171 Posts
On June 03 2020 09:48 Wombat_NI wrote: They’re already doing that. An NFL player taking the knee was too much for many of them. They’ll say they’re turned off by this violence when they were already long ago turned off the cause by their own worldview. Now, as to what proportion of the population they actually are is another thing entirely. I’m sure they exist but the cohort of pro police reform people who changed their tune with the looting can’t be that large. At least based on my social media it’s split between people who support the cause, find the rioting regrettable and people who go ‘what about black crime statistics’ and were never remotely receptive to the cause. Studies have found that extreme protests reduces popular support for social movements, but raises pressure on institutions and increases awareness. https://www.psypost.org/2020/05/new-psychology-research-finds-extreme-protest-actions-reduce-popular-support-for-social-movements-56906?fbclid=IwAR0dXw0ft4J_iu-o33nxd0jzC5Dq6i6ARBhSQFHkDAFEqDa8yJVVUd8UKFw So that would tie in with the people being turned off by the rioting, some people changing their stance in a change positive direction on see some of the fucked up shit that's going on, and the long term necessity on rioting against a system that refuses to change. Oh, and according to the FBI Antifa did nothing wrong on Sunday, as far as they can tell. https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi/ | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32746 Posts
https://www.axios.com/steve-king-iowa-primary-0f573843-c5e3-4246-a92c-1c0ce72efcdf.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100 | ||
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Gahlo
United States35171 Posts
On June 03 2020 12:20 PhoenixVoid wrote: Steve King, the long-time incumbent Iowa rep known for some pretty outrageous comments on race, lost his primary. This does make the seat safer for the Republicans though because his opponent Feenstra performed better against a theoretical Democratic candidate. https://www.axios.com/steve-king-iowa-primary-0f573843-c5e3-4246-a92c-1c0ce72efcdf.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100 Maybe now poor Stephan King will get fewer misplaced harsh tweets. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On June 03 2020 11:56 NewSunshine wrote: No one's pretending the movement is a monolith. But most of the folks here understand the historical contexts and motivations at play here. When you say "but we can do it peacefully and without riots, we just need to vote", you're presented with politicians on record saying they don't care about making any change happen. What's more, the position is just ignorant in a fundamental way. Peaceful protests and demonstrations are what people have been doing. You don't hear about it, and nothing comes of it, because people just ignore it and don't have to give a shit. Black people continue to be disproportionately murdered by police. Politicians continue to not effect the change that they need to. Protests need to be inconvenient, almost necessarily. If someone who doesn't want to hear your message can turn a dial and tune you out completely, what do you expect to accomplish? Black folks have to live their lives constantly aware that they have extra entries in the police murder lottery, and you're asking them to be civil and play by the rules? The rules were written to fuck them over from the start. It's morally wrong to call them cheaters when they actually try to do something about it. I've had my own character arc, for sure. Trying to give a bit of space for that. I respect your perspective and the effort you put into articulating it. Perhaps if I understand history the way you do, I would agree with your take, perhaps if you have seen what I am seeing in Minneapolis right now, you would agree with my take. Over the last few pages I've posted a bit to show the Minneapolis side of things, if you source some well written rhetoric that your understanding of history is based on, I will read it (assuming it is written efficiently). Thank you for your civility. I understand their are many with strong feelings right now, and this is a very touchy subject. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23671 Posts
On June 03 2020 12:27 puppykiller wrote: I respect your perspective and the effort you put into articulating it. Perhaps if I understand history the way you do, I would agree with your take, perhaps if you have seen what I am seeing in Minneapolis right now, you would agree with my take. Over the last few pages I've posted a bit to show the Minneapolis side of things, if you source some well written rhetoric that your understanding of history is based on, I will read it (assuming it is written efficiently). Thank you for your civility. I understand their are many with strong feelings right now, and this is a very touchy subject. Give me liberty or give me death? | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9776 Posts
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Falling
Canada11437 Posts
"First of all, first of all. If I'm not over here, wilin' out, if I'm not over here blowing up stuff, if I'm not over here messing up my community — then what are y'all doing? Nothing, because that's not going to bring my brother back at all. Let's do this another way. Let's stop thinking that our voice doesn't matter and vote, because it's a lot of us and we're still going to do this peacefully." Terrance, brother of George.It certainly isn't a monolith at least at ground zero to the kill. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On June 03 2020 12:53 Zambrah wrote: I know your post wasn't directed at me, but this is a source with well written rhetoric. Its been posted in this thread before, but I still find it to be one of my favorite pieces of writing. https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html Thank you for stepping up and contributing to the discussion. I will read it. If I have any thoughts I will post them. For those of you speaking about the efficacy of the rioting... I think you should address Gahlo's post. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
Not surprised to see that the rhetoric you follow is one liners. All my responses are thought out, well written, to the point, and continually calibrated to people's responses. You seem unable to do the same. If you can contribute a real source to the discussion that you ascribe to, I can take you seriously as an individual with some basis for his opinion. Otherwise I'll have to go back to treating you like a troll. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 03 2020 13:12 puppykiller wrote: Thank you for stepping up and contributing to the discussion. I will read it. If I have any thoughts I will post them. For those of you speaking about the efficacy of the rioting... I think you should address Gahlo's post. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Yes, and if you had read it you'd understand that protesting works since it forces the institution to change. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On June 03 2020 13:19 Erasme wrote: Yes, and if you had read it you'd understand that protesting works since it forces the institution to change. I did read it... you read it and only took literally the one part of it that reinforced your beliefs and totally missed everything else. Please reflect on that. The article is more nuanced than that and references more than one study. Read about each study so you can understand the full article. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On June 03 2020 13:22 puppykiller wrote: I did read it... you read it and only took that out of it. The article is more balanced than that and references more than one study. Read about each study so you can understand the full article. Aight. There are protests in every single states in the US. There has been countless of those incidents. I'm fairly certain the minorities getting oppressed by the police don't give a flying fuck if you agree with it or not, as long as it leads to change. You seem to believe that somehow coming back to the statue quo will fix things, but clearly it doesn't. So if you go back and read my post, you can notice the subtle implication that forcing the institution to change has more priority than how you and others view the protest. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23671 Posts
On June 03 2020 13:16 puppykiller wrote: Not surprised to see that the rhetoric you follow is one liners. All my responses are thought out, well written, to the point, and continually calibrated to people's responses. You seem unable to do the same. If you can contribute a real source to the discussion that you ascribe to, I can take you seriously as an individual with some basis for his opinion. Otherwise I'll have to go back to treating you like a troll. You asked for efficient? You can address the position or not but it's certainly well established as a salient argument. The rhetoric's primary purpose was to rally support for the casus belli to birth the nation. It culminated in the revolutionary war. I'd argue my responses are thought out, well written, to the point, and continually calibrated to people's responses. I don't know what you mean by "real", but the letter from Birmingham is something I've presented here several times going back years. Your interpretation of me being a troll is largely based on your apparent novice awareness of the subject (despite your described rearing and proximity to the most recent catalyst). | ||
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