EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2369
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15714 Posts
On June 03 2020 01:27 ShoCkeyy wrote: I've actually been observing a lot of what I would consider libertarian friends start condemning the use of military action within states. If you visit the subreddit of libertarians, you'll also see them start denouncing Trump's actions. It took them this long to realize, but I rather them notice than not notice. A lot of people that were "TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP" are literally posting positive things about BlackLivesMatter. Some of them post All live matter, but it's a start as I said. My extremely centrist friend who is in the military and always siding with "reasonable" approaches is basically screaming fuck the police at this point. It is amazing. He wrote a really long post about how he used to always assume the best in police and that it is almost impossible at this point. | ||
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StalkerTL
212 Posts
I took a quick look at English language media reports from around the world and they seem sympathetic towards the protestors and understand why people are rioting and looting if this is the treatment they can expect for maybe doing something wrong. It honestly feels like hostile forces in many overseas war zones have shown more restraint towards media crew than the US police have. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On June 03 2020 01:27 ShoCkeyy wrote: I've actually been observing a lot of what I would consider libertarian friends start condemning the use of military action within states. If you visit the subreddit of libertarians, you'll also see them start denouncing Trump's actions. It took them this long to realize, but I rather them notice than not notice. A lot of people that were "TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP" are literally posting positive things about BlackLivesMatter. Some of them post All live matter, but it's a start as I said. Actual libertarians (not altright in disguise) are for a small government, so having the police patrolling the streets telling people what to do is absolutely not okay with them | ||
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stilt
France2750 Posts
On June 03 2020 01:54 TomatoBisque wrote: Actual libertarians (not altright in disguise) are for a small government, so having the police patrolling the streets telling people what to do is absolutely not okay with them "State police", a majority of libertarians are more than fine when Union workers are lynched by private police. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23296 Posts
Why not have the millions of white americans that find this violence unacceptable all get arrested (as peacefully as they prefer)? Seems like a pretty practical way to stress the system to a breaking point and takes very little effort from people supportive of Black people's civil rights. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3130 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23296 Posts
On June 03 2020 02:53 puppykiller wrote: Since we are thinking outside the box, let's have members of the BLM movement join the police, so that they can handle police calls in a more just manner. Representation within oppressive systems isn't outside the box. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 03 2020 02:53 puppykiller wrote: Since we are thinking outside the box, let's have members of the BLM movement join the police, so that they can handle police calls in a more just manner. yes, because the good cop argument works so well you seem to be unwittingly or actively misunderstanding the systemic nature of police violence and corps mentality | ||
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puppykiller
United States3130 Posts
Call is made, for example, the Floyd call. BLM member is the cop who answers the call. Now you introduce a scenario. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
I like it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23296 Posts
On June 03 2020 02:58 puppykiller wrote: Ok let me introduce a scenario: Call is made, for example, the Floyd call. BLM member is the cop who answers the call. Now you introduce a scenario. White people demand justice or to be taken to jail. We find out not many white people are willing to make even that minor sacrifice or the jails are overrun and radical changes are forced. Replacing police departments functions with community groups is something I've long advocated. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3188 Posts
On June 03 2020 02:49 GreenHorizons wrote: I know some people prefer peaceful protests, others more radical action as expressions of unheard masses, but I have an idea. Why not have the millions of white americans that find this violence unacceptable all get arrested (as peacefully as they prefer)? Seems like a pretty practical way to stress the system to a breaking point and takes very little effort from people supportive of Black people's civil rights. I mean, that’s more or less the premise of civil disobedience, right? There’s an unjust law, so activists go peacefully violate that law and willingly go to jail for it. What’s powerful about it is that you’re morally unimpeachable; the only thing you’ve done “wrong” is whatever that law prohibited, and the reason it’s an unjust law is because doing that thing isn’t actually wrong. What I don’t know is how civil disobedience applies to unjust lawlessness. George Floyd wasn’t convicted under some unjust statute, allowed his day in court, and given the death penalty; he was murdered in the street. It’s less like “move to the back of the bus” and more like a lynching. So what unjust law is there to civilly disobey? You could break curfew, and get arrested for breaking curfew, but curfew isn’t the injustice, killing is. I’d like to read more about what MLK prescribed for protesting lynching, I don’t know enough about it myself. I’m not necessarily opposed to calling on all supposedly-sympathetic “violence isn’t the answer” types to go break curfew and let themselves get arrested, but is that the prescription? I’m not doing anything this Friday, I’d consider it. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3130 Posts
On June 03 2020 03:05 GreenHorizons wrote: White people demand justice or to be taken to jail. We find out not many white people are willing to make even that minor sacrifice or the jails are overrun and radical changes are forced. Replacing police departments functions with community groups is something I've long advocated. Ok then we agree on my post. Now for yours... are you white my friend? Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. | ||
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On June 03 2020 03:06 puppykiller wrote: Ok then we agree on my post. Now for yours... are you white my friend? Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. He's actually black. GH isn't that the point of these said white people breaking curfew? I've been living in Portland for about a year now, and protesters here are getting their demands heard by police while being peaceful. The point is we don't want violence against any race or humans. The police won't arrest all of them for breaking curfew, so in a way it shows the people have the power without having to arrest anybody or be violent. Portland protestors have been following https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_Zero which also includes obtaining any violent person and turning them in. The point is to not have violence or hate anymore isn't it? If the community can't police themselves then why should we expect the police to police themselves? As soon as the protest ended, the violent ones came out with guns and were arrested immediately. There was a car driving. around handing out "supplies" of who knows what to the violent protestors which they were also arrested. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23296 Posts
On June 03 2020 03:06 puppykiller wrote: Ok then we agree on my post. Now for yours... are you white my friend? Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. Been Black as long as I can remember, you? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44602 Posts
On June 03 2020 03:07 farvacola wrote: Lol oh boy, this won’t go anywhere good Yeahhhhh I'm thinkin' the same thing. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 02 2020 22:17 Zealously wrote: Given the tendency of the most recent presidents to legislate in greater degree via executive action, I would say that you're definitely right that the president doesn't *technically* lead the police, but he also doesn't *technically* lead many other departments that have caved to his whims and demands in the past. There is nothing preventing a president from employing the powers vested in him to try and affect change on a national level. It is not right or democratic that the president has that ability, but it would certainly be called for in this case. It's also questionable in this political climate to think that Donald Trump - who has reshaped the Republican party in his image - could not almost single-handedly push police reform into Congress via his proxies if he wanted to. And separately but on a related note, doesn't the US military sell plenty of equipment to local and regional police forces? Restricting the transfer of military-grade equipment to non-military institutions would be within the purview of the Defense Department, which is part of the executive branch, correct? I disagree with executive orders & how Trump relates to the Republican Party. The last thing people should want is someone like Trump empowered to do things that affect police across the country by fiat. That should stay. The trend of unilateral extra-constitutional exercise of power needs to end, even if it serves expediency. And Trumps more a symptom of an unacknowledged voting constituency, or maybe the beta test of a cure for previously unaddressed problems with American politics. The military equipment transfer program was instituted by legislative act, and should end in the same way if that’s what citizens (through their legislators) desire. I’m sure some really want that to happen, but the military did not sell the knee that knelt on George Floyd’s neck, or give him confidence to do so in full view of cameraphones without thinking of repercussions. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 03 2020 02:58 puppykiller wrote: Ok let me introduce a scenario: Call is made, for example, the Floyd call. BLM member is the cop who answers the call. Now you introduce a scenario. what you're really saying is that if enough decent cops are around, the problem wouldnt exist. Though not only are bad cops the problem, but racism pervading society allowing them to commit capital crimes in front of cameras and not just get off scot free, but also alter the lives of those who dare speak out against them to the worst. Bringing out a singluar instance of things supposedly "working out fine" is as oversimplified and anecdotal as it gets as well. | ||
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