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I wanna see more people sharing posts regarding demands and steps towards solving this greater societal issue. We can spend all day, all month, all year... posting in anger and fanning the fire, lamenting the same injustices over and over again, but if we are actually looking for change, it is crucial to articulate clear definable steps, some that can be taken right away, some that we have to build up to, that would lead to a better society. Right now I see the emotions and support of countless people, so we need to focus on how to channel that support to actually achieving defined goals.
Here are two small achievable steps I can think of right now, I'm sure we can brainstorm more:
1. The conviction of the other officers responsible
2. Any and all updates related to the process of the conviction of the other cops responsible and why it is taking so long
3. A consensus between demonstrators and police what is considered acceptable, and what is considered unacceptable. This may take some time but without it, we can't define which cops aren't representatives of the police (and must be held accountable in some way by other police), and which demonstrators , are not representative of the demonstrators (and should be held accountable in some way by other demonstrators). Without this step all I anticipate is more asshole cops becoming the face of the police and more asshole demonstrators becoming the face of the movement (since assholes are the ones who get attention in the social media age).
Lets stop this who "they did this, they did that" nonsense and actually address the problems at hand so we can build something good.
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On June 01 2020 12:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2020 11:53 Danglars wrote:
Obama would give a better speech urging calm. He already put out a statement of about that. All good. He'll ignore Antifa, as done and expected. (To everybody here, please don't pretend they weren't smashing and grabbing shit in Berkeley, Portland, Seattle just a couple years ago. They show up to events in major cities like this.) I'm not saying you're completely blaming Antifa for all of this, but that line reminded me of some things I've been seeing from conservative acquaintances of mine, so I feel the need to write: Obligatory reminder that the people who are blaming all of this violence and destruction on Antifa are the same people who will watch a Jewish person punch a Nazi in the face for being a Nazi, and then scold the Jewish person for being a meanie.
As long as you aren't calling people like me a Nazi. I've been called one in the past, so let me know.
I know there's some extreme MAGA types that will blame it all on Antifa. There's definitely unaffiliated hard-left and opportunistic, non-ideological people among the peaceful rioters that are partly to blame too.
Local curfew, and LA county-wide curfew. Rioters stopped around 10 miles from my place. I fear some of my favorite restaurants and owners aren't going to have a place of business capable of operation tomorrow. They were right in the path of the violent mob I saw streamed from news helicopters.
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On June 01 2020 12:43 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2020 12:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 01 2020 11:53 Danglars wrote:
Obama would give a better speech urging calm. He already put out a statement of about that. All good. He'll ignore Antifa, as done and expected. (To everybody here, please don't pretend they weren't smashing and grabbing shit in Berkeley, Portland, Seattle just a couple years ago. They show up to events in major cities like this.) I'm not saying you're completely blaming Antifa for all of this, but that line reminded me of some things I've been seeing from conservative acquaintances of mine, so I feel the need to write: Obligatory reminder that the people who are blaming all of this violence and destruction on Antifa are the same people who will watch a Jewish person punch a Nazi in the face for being a Nazi, and then scold the Jewish person for being a meanie. As long as you aren't calling people like me a Nazi. I've been called one in the past, so let me know. I know there's some extreme MAGA types that will blame it all on Antifa. There's definitely unaffiliated hard-left and opportunistic, non-ideological people among the peaceful rioters that are partly to blame too. Local curfew, and LA county-wide curfew. Rioters stopped around 10 miles from my place. I fear some of my favorite restaurants and owners aren't going to have a place of business capable of operation tomorrow. They were right in the path of the violent mob I saw streamed from news helicopters.
Nope; I'm not calling you a Nazi lol.
I wonder what percent of families, whose jobs and businesses were affected by the riots, will see the destruction as legitimate collateral damage for the greater good of equity and justice, and what percent of those families will turn away from supporting the protests due to the new loss of personal property.
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If its business property their insurance should almost assuredly cover them. Your HOME OWNERS insurance typically covers for shit like rioting, business insurance should basically guaranteed cover it unless you were one of those weird people who exclusively wanted like, fire covered as your named peril for your business property.
Also fuck Congress, this is one of the biggest events of civil unrest and "eh, fuck it, we're not going to do shit," is what their plan is? What a joke, what a pack of fucking slugs. I'm not sure its possible for it to be made clearer that they give precisely zero shits about what americans think. Just revolting, what has to happen before they decide to do something? Maybe these riots should be targeting the houses of congress members, maybe that'll make them get off their bloated self serving asses and do something.
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Osaka27151 Posts
All this talk about insurance, but you still have to put in the time, energy, and money up front to get things open again. "They have insurance" isn't a legitimate rationalization.
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On June 01 2020 13:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2020 12:43 Danglars wrote:On June 01 2020 12:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 01 2020 11:53 Danglars wrote:
Obama would give a better speech urging calm. He already put out a statement of about that. All good. He'll ignore Antifa, as done and expected. (To everybody here, please don't pretend they weren't smashing and grabbing shit in Berkeley, Portland, Seattle just a couple years ago. They show up to events in major cities like this.) I'm not saying you're completely blaming Antifa for all of this, but that line reminded me of some things I've been seeing from conservative acquaintances of mine, so I feel the need to write: Obligatory reminder that the people who are blaming all of this violence and destruction on Antifa are the same people who will watch a Jewish person punch a Nazi in the face for being a Nazi, and then scold the Jewish person for being a meanie. As long as you aren't calling people like me a Nazi. I've been called one in the past, so let me know. I know there's some extreme MAGA types that will blame it all on Antifa. There's definitely unaffiliated hard-left and opportunistic, non-ideological people among the peaceful rioters that are partly to blame too. Local curfew, and LA county-wide curfew. Rioters stopped around 10 miles from my place. I fear some of my favorite restaurants and owners aren't going to have a place of business capable of operation tomorrow. They were right in the path of the violent mob I saw streamed from news helicopters. Nope; I'm not calling you a Nazi lol. I wonder what percent of families, whose jobs and businesses were affected by the riots, will see the destruction as legitimate collateral damage for the greater good of equity and justice, and what percent of those families will turn away from supporting the protests due to the new loss of personal property.
Yeah I don't know. The immigrant-owned businesses in LA absolutely are going to be livid. The Jewish community that was looted and defaced same (I mean, it was F*** Israel and Free Palestine all over the place). The rest maybe, maybe not. The actual act was egregious and should inspire mass protests in any sane society, so that has to carry some weight in it all.
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On June 01 2020 13:23 Manifesto7 wrote:
All this talk about insurance, but you still have to put in the time, energy, and money up front to get things open again. "They have insurance" isn't a legitimate rationalization.
I feel like you should have to give me your icon for that
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On June 01 2020 13:23 Manifesto7 wrote:
All this talk about insurance, but you still have to put in the time, energy, and money up front to get things open again. "They have insurance" isn't a legitimate rationalization.
Insurance is better than nothing, which is what black people that cops kill wind up with. If nothing changes then sure if sucks to have to use your insurance, but it sucks more to have cops out there killing people for no good reason.
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On June 01 2020 13:29 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2020 13:23 Manifesto7 wrote:
All this talk about insurance, but you still have to put in the time, energy, and money up front to get things open again. "They have insurance" isn't a legitimate rationalization. I feel like you should have to give me your icon for that
I agree with Mani but im not gonna lie that is pretty funny LOL
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United States24701 Posts
On June 01 2020 13:19 Zambrah wrote:
If its business property their insurance should almost assuredly cover them. Your HOME OWNERS insurance typically covers for shit like rioting, business insurance should basically guaranteed cover it unless you were one of those weird people who exclusively wanted like, fire covered as your named peril for your business property.
Also fuck Congress, this is one of the biggest events of civil unrest and "eh, fuck it, we're not going to do shit," is what their plan is? What a joke, what a pack of fucking slugs. I'm not sure its possible for it to be made clearer that they give precisely zero shits about what americans think. Just revolting, what has to happen before they decide to do something? Maybe these riots should be targeting the houses of congress members, maybe that'll make them get off their bloated self serving asses and do something.
Do you want Congress to remain in session as a symbolic gesture, or do you perhaps think there is a very obvious path they should be taking in terms of addressing the civil unrest with legislation?
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I think that during such serious civil unrest congress should very much remain in session and communicate some plan of action. If Congress appears unwilling or incapable of addressing something as serious as this then why should people ever stop rioting and burning down police stations, etc. etc.
I have a hard time accepting inaction at times like these.
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United States24701 Posts
On June 01 2020 13:50 Zambrah wrote:
I think that during such serious civil unrest congress should very much remain in session and communicate some plan of action. If Congress appears unwilling or incapable of addressing something as serious as this then why should people ever stop rioting and burning down police stations, etc. etc.
I have a hard time accepting inaction at times like these.
What should they do?
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It is very important for public officials to be primed to negotiate demands, and implementation of those demands with the protesters. Otherwise, how can they be a part of the solution?
It is very important for demonstrators to rally around demands that are achievable now, as well as demands that will take more time to be met, so that public officials have a meaningful way they can interact with demonstrators.
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On June 01 2020 13:35 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2020 13:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 01 2020 13:23 Manifesto7 wrote:
All this talk about insurance, but you still have to put in the time, energy, and money up front to get things open again. "They have insurance" isn't a legitimate rationalization. I feel like you should have to give me your icon for that I agree with Mani but im not gonna lie that is pretty funny LOL
I'd loot it if I could 
It bears repeating that the impetus for the uprisings is decades of not meeting existing public demands. The politicians know what's being demanded locally and nationally.
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I think that is a good argument for advocating for the demonstrations. I don't think it is productive in the next step.
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On June 01 2020 14:08 puppykiller wrote:
I think that is a good argument for advocating for the demonstrations. I don't think it is productive in the next step.
I think doing things their communities have been already asking for is a no-brainer productive next step. Their refusal speaks volumes and is the fuel for the uprisings.
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Ok, if these goals are so obvious... give me a few examples, some that are immediate goals, some that are longer term. For the short term goals state why you think they have not been met yet. For the longer term, talk about what can be done now to prove that they are on the agenda.
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On June 01 2020 14:30 puppykiller wrote:
Ok, if these goals are so obvious... give me a few examples, some that are immediate goals, some that are longer term. For the short term goals state why you think they have not been met yet. For the longer term, talk about what can be done now to prove that they are on the agenda.
I can't think of a more obvious one than arresting the accomplices in the murder that ignited all this.
I'm not going to entertain the idea that it's a lack of clearly articulated demands that is preventing politicians from doing anything more than crackdown on their populations with mandated curfews and brutal state violence repressing peaceful political dissent and media any further though.
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I think the call for the accomplice arrest is a good demand.
I don't think a lack of clear demands is in of itself, invalidating the movement. I think it would help give politicians somewhere to put their energy publicly if they want to prove solidarity beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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On June 01 2020 13:50 Zambrah wrote:
I think that during such serious civil unrest congress should very much remain in session and communicate some plan of action. If Congress appears unwilling or incapable of addressing something as serious as this then why should people ever stop rioting and burning down police stations, etc. etc.
I have a hard time accepting inaction at times like these.
Legislation passed quickly in a crisis is why we get things like the Patriot Act.
Like congressmen seizing powers from states to force police departments to obey their will.
Just imagine Trump having GOP control of both houses, and take ten seconds to think what they would do with powers given during major urban riots.
The only thing they should be doing is debating and amending legislation to bring QI back to something reasonable.
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