EPTGrow the fuck up.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2357
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
Grow the fuck up. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9647 Posts
On June 01 2020 06:19 Velr wrote: I like how Antifa is/was a thing in countries for decades... But as soon as they come to the US it's some big multinational conspiracy theory funded by an evil billionaire. Grow the fuck up. I've tried making this point before but some of the Americans here are absolutely sure that their version of Antifa is way more evil. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11507 Posts
On June 01 2020 05:49 Artisreal wrote: can we have an aditional [citation needed] option to quote and report for this thread. this is just conspirational level akin to Bill Gates wanting to secretly microchip everyone through a vaccine for covid19 which of course he invented in the first place. I actually read that as satire at first. It sounds like something which i might write when satirizing crazy rightwing people, and overplay the stupidity. But a few posts later it seems as if that was actually serious. Which is really strange. On June 01 2020 06:21 Jockmcplop wrote: I've tried making this point before but good ol' Americans are absolutely sure that their version of Antifa is way more evil. Ah, classic american exceptionalism. You can never compare anything in the US to anything else in the world, because the US is just that special. Universal healthcare is just impossible in the US, despite existing in a lot of other countries. Guns totally don't have anything to do with people being shot with guns, despite every country with less guns not having the problems the US has. The US police has to be that brutal, because the US is exceptional, and really cannot compared to all the other countries with police forces which work a lot better. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 01 2020 06:11 Vivax wrote: That's just the exaggerated version, but there is in fact a patent designed to chip people by MS. Google microsoft crypto chip. Though it isn't explicitly written that it has to be implanted. I vaguely heard about that and hence wrote secretly. A friend of mine also has a microchip implanted that tells him his blood sugar levels if he hovers a device over the implant. Super handy dandy. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9647 Posts
I imagine it will be used as cover to arrest whoever the fuck they want at left wing protests (not that they don't already, but I definitely think it will be a catch all term for 'left wing rioters' and we will see people get charged with terrorism offences who have nothing to do with Antifa) | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
On June 01 2020 03:39 Danglars wrote: From what I've seen, that's a very accurate and nuanced writeup by David Hines. Thanks for posting it. The infantilizing has also been called the soft bigotry of low expectations, which I think is apt.One thing about responses. First, like puppykiller was going on about, it's very easy to justify rioting and arson when it isn't your homes or businesses being burnt. Like this reporter in the nice part of town: + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/AGHamilton29/status/1267159487326105605 It's literally zero cost. And what a tragedy on all the black-owned businesses already suffering from months of closures from CoViD-19, now having to deal with their means of rebounding after the disease taken away from them. Target and Nike will recover. Not them. I've been a little too long on that aspect of rioting, so let me swap to the response. I think both the regular liberals (fix the system) and hard-left (tear down the system) and right wing (quick to swap into restoration of order/anti-riots) have had shifting perspectives on this. From twitter, David Hines @hradzka sums up what I think is a fair accessment: On June 01 2020 04:33 Jockmcplop wrote: Your assumptions are telling, as is your fear of human diversity. As Harvard faculty, award-winning geneticist David Reich wrote in Who We Are and How We Got Here, "The approach of staying mum, of implying to the public and to colleagues that substantial differences in traits across populations are unlikely to exist, is a strategy that we scientists can no longer afford, and that in fact is positively harmful. If as scientists we willfully abstain from laying out a rational framework for discussing human differences, we will leave a vacuum that will be filled by pseudoscience, an outcome that is far worse than anything we could achieve by talking openly."What with the 'black people are criminals on the dole' stats from xxio and now the Soros stuff i feel like we only need to start talking about the shape of people's skulls and we will have 'right wing stupid bingo' There is nothing racist about statistics. Part of the reason I provide little context is because the reaction of radicalized posters reveals their ideological fragility. For example, it's strange, to me, that you would take umbrage at basic government data, yet eschew the clearly racist statements made by Minneapolis rioters, posted earlier: "Fuck white people. They bad as fuck bro. Blacks and browns united bro," and, "We gonna fuck ya'll up. One of ours, two of yours. There's more of us than you, bitch. What's up? Exactly. We comin' for ya'll ******. Next time, this[burning building] is your house. We comin' to your house right now *****." | ||
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farvacola
United States18826 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 01 2020 06:48 Xxio wrote: From what I've seen, that's a very accurate and nuanced writeup by David Hines. Thanks for posting it. The infantilizing has also been called the soft bigotry of low expectations, which I think is apt.Your assumptions are telling, as is your fear of human diversity. As Harvard faculty, award-winning geneticist David Reich wrote in Who We Are and How We Got Here, "The approach of staying mum, of implying to the public and to colleagues that substantial differences in traits across populations are unlikely to exist, is a strategy that we scientists can no longer afford, and that in fact is positively harmful. If as scientists we willfully abstain from laying out a rational framework for discussing human differences, we will leave a vacuum that will be filled by pseudoscience, an outcome that is far worse than anything we could achieve by talking openly." There is nothing racist about statistics. Part of the reason I provide little context is because the reaction of radicalized posters reveals their ideological fragility. For example, it's strange, to me, that you would take umbrage at basic government data, yet eschew the clearly racist statements made by Minneapolis rioters, posted earlier: "Fuck white people. They bad as fuck bro. Blacks and browns united bro," and, "We gonna fuck ya'll up. One of ours, two of yours. There's more of us than you, bitch. What's up? Exactly. We comin' for ya'll ******. Next time, this[burning building] is your house. We comin' to your house right now *****." Are you not making the assumption that statistics are unbiased and collected accurately? Statistics are infamously easy to manipulate and use/abuse/massage to serve political ends. Also, you do know what David Reich was saying, right? Because from the context of you quoting him I'm not sure you do. And yes, the Minnesota rioters are motivated by race. A person of white racial descent pretty much just committed a hate crime against them. They're a tad upset about this. | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:21 nojok wrote: Ok I'll recap my stance (given the issues are quite the same in France, even though Francce is a less violent country and we have a decent social protection making our poorest less poor by comparison) : - There are lot of problems stemming from racism - Many actions were taken to peacefully solve the problem, mostly ignored - It has solved nothing - Victims eventually melt down after an emotional event Sure the state has to take actions against rioters but more importantly it has to take care of the issues which lead to those events. We're not saying they're acting well, nor that those riots will solve the problems. We're saying we've seen it coming and that it's time to address the real issues. (nota : haven't yet read posts past this one) I can't really condone most of the violent protests that usually happen in France, because they usually happen after some delinquents tried to evade police and went running, either in scooter breaking all rules, or in an electrical box (stupids............), or resisted arrest. Then all hell breaks lose and their friends rouse the other delinquents with the purpose of breaking things. During those, there is some police brutality and accidents (a grenade here, some flashball there, a lot of kicks), but we usually don't shoot at press on sight or anything like this. "Marches blanches" are fine and don't usually bring trouble. There is the occasional death that warrants a full investigation, like Adama Traoré, however there ARE justice inquiries and full reports, not the usually full absence of accountability like in the US. I have not once seen a plain killing like there was this time (well, maybe this one, of course towards an angel, only 375 mostly unpaid fines for breach of road rules, and with a temper... in any case, not racism-based). There are of course the same kind of systemic issues with minorities being historically parked in "banlieues", however a lot of work has been and is being done not like the 60' or 70', and there is some racism, but nothing comparable to the US. And most of the efforts made are thwarted by little shits actively wanting to keep living the good life dealing drugs and refuse to try to take part in society, unlike their parents who dealt with most of the racism and tried to fit in. So I can't empathize the same way as I do for the US currently. The justice system works here. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
Well, it's been pretty clear for a while, but it's refreshing that Donald is openly admitting the US government under his presidency is fascist. "BUT!", you might say, "he's only declaring the organization ANTIFA as terrorists, not antifascists in general! This is in no way an attack on antifascism in the benefit for right-wing extremists." Sorry buddy, ANTIFA is not an organization, but a label anti-fascists label themselves by; any labelling of ANTIFA as terrorists is, in effect, enabling the US state to target any person supposedly engaged in any anti-fascist capacity with anti-terrorism legalisture. In effect, stripping any person in or outside of the US of any rights, including legal representation, based on the thought-crime of state-claimed allegiance to anti-fascist concepts. I'll not even begin starting to ridicule the unfathomable black hole of logic which must be required to feel labelling antifascists' moral fight against fascism as something bad for society. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7888 Posts
On June 01 2020 06:22 Simberto wrote: I actually read that as satire at first. It sounds like something which i might write when satirizing crazy rightwing people, and overplay the stupidity. But a few posts later it seems as if that was actually serious. Which is really strange. Yeah it's pizzagate level of stupid. But think about it: modern antisemitism was based for decades on the Protocole of the Elder of Zion which is, frankly, several orders of magnitude dumber and more grotesque as a conspiracy theory as the whole Soros crap. It was enough in the long run to get millions of people gazed and burnt in ovens. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Not to mention that foreign policy seems to be in crisis management as Trump seemingly pulled out off or threatened a lot of world organizations and treaties. Let me know if I'm missing something so far: Climate act, TTP, Iran Nuclear deal, Nuclear Proliferation and other arms treaties, open sky treaty, no progress with North Korea's denuclearization whatsoever. Walked out of and pulled funding from UNESCO, WHO, threatened to leave the WTO while stalling the vote of administration changes and there for stalling complains against unfair trade practises by the US. Sanctioning aluminium imports from all over the world pissing everyone including close allies like EU and Japan. Sanctioning or threatening sanctions or tariffs on close allies or neighbors like Canada, Mexico, EU, Britain and others... Abolishing preferential trading status of India and Hong Kong. Venezuela, Iran and Russia aside, relations were never that good with them anyway, but relations with China are as worse as before Ronald Reagan recognized them as a potential trading partner and a method to contain the USSR. Before that relations were non-existent and today is going in that direction fast. The new cold war with China and the US lobbing the world to contain China is falling on deaf ears, because US under Trump is in no way a model country who could lead the others. Unilateralism and protectionism is the name of the game, while globalization, free markets and liberal democracy goes down the drain, not to mention free speech as social media like facebook and twitch of all platforms is about to get "re-educated" by Trump... | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 01 2020 07:27 raga4ka wrote: Man with all the shit happening in the US, i can't phantom how it could be possible for Trump to get re-elected, only the die-hard Trump fans could possibly vote for him, otherwise some major brainwashing is happening there. I don't even know much about Biden, but shit is hitting the fans right now in the US. For a while now I thought that Trump could or would get re-elected even with all the scandals, because of the seemingly good US economy and low unemployment. Corona hit hard and now this riots... Not to mention that foreign policy seems to be in crisis management as Trump seemingly pulled out off or threatened a lot of world organizations and treaties. Let me know if I'm missing something so far: Climate act, TTP, Iran Nuclear deal, Nuclear Proliferation and other arms treaties, open sky treaty, no progress with North Korea's denuclearization whatsoever. Walked out of and pulled funding from UNESCO, WHO, threatened to leave the WTO while stalling the vote of administration changes and there for stalling complains against unfair trade practises by the US. Sanctioning aluminium imports from all over the world pissing everyone including close allies like EU and Japan. Sanctioning or threatening sanctions or tariffs on close allies or neighbors like Canada, Mexico, EU, Britain and others... Abolishing preferential trading status of India and Hong Kong. Venezuela, Iran and Russia aside, relations were never that good with them anyway, but relations with China are as worse as before Ronald Reagan recognized them as a potential trading partner and a method to contain the USSR. Before that relations were non-existent and today is going in that direction fast. The new cold war with China and the US lobbing the world to contain China is falling on deaf ears, because US under Trump is in no way a model country who could lead the others. Unilateralism and protectionism is the name of the game, while globalization, free markets and liberal democracy goes down the drain... One person's failures are the other's achievements... | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8983 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7888 Posts
On June 01 2020 07:27 raga4ka wrote: Man with all the shit happening in the US, i can't phantom how it could be possible for Trump to get re-elected, only the die-hard Trump fans could possibly vote for him, otherwise some major brainwashing is happening there. I don't even know much about Biden, but shit is hitting the fans right now in the US. For a while now I thought that Trump could or would get re-elected even with all the scandals, because of the seemingly good US economy and low unemployment. Corona hit hard and now this riots... Not to mention that foreign policy seems to be in crisis management as Trump seemingly pulled out off or threatened a lot of world organizations and treaties. Let me know if I'm missing something so far: Climate act, TTP, Iran Nuclear deal, Nuclear Proliferation and other arms treaties, open sky treaty, no progress with North Korea's denuclearization whatsoever. Walked out of and pulled funding from UNESCO, WHO, threatened to leave the WTO while stalling the vote of administration changes and there for stalling complains against unfair trade practises by the US. Sanctioning aluminium imports from all over the world pissing everyone including close allies like EU and Japan. Sanctioning or threatening sanctions or tariffs on close allies or neighbors like Canada, Mexico, EU, Britain and others... Abolishing preferential trading status of India and Hong Kong. Venezuela, Iran and Russia aside, relations were never that good with them anyway, but relations with China are as worse as before Ronald Reagan recognized them as a potential trading partner and a method to contain the USSR. Before that relations were non-existent and today is going in that direction fast. The new cold war with China and the US lobbing the world to contain China is falling on deaf ears, because US under Trump is in no way a model country who could lead the others. Unilateralism and protectionism is the name of the game, while globalization, free markets and liberal democracy goes down the drain... You have hundreds of pages in this thread of people deploying an i credible amount of energy to persuade everyone that Biden is the worst thing that could ever happen. They happen to be, supposedly, on the left of the political spectrum. Anytime you wonder how the right can win against all odds, in different places and different times, just observes the amazing ability of the left to self sabotage. On the right, your political neighbour is your friend. On the left it's your worst enemy. I think Trump will win again because Biden is not a very good candidate, and because I expect the whole left to lose itself in grotesque infighting. Just visit Sanders support group on reddit, you'll see people much more determined to see Biden lose than any Trump supporter. It's retarded. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
There's a lot of critiques of his naive understanding of race too : https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bfopinion/race-genetics-david-reich | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
Is this seriously allowed on TL still? | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
While not Antifa to my knowledge, GH is a rather radical lefty who people here on the ostensible more liberal left vociferously disagree with. George Soros isn’t some outright political radical and is you know, a billionaire? Soros funding Antifa (and every left wing cause ever) would be vaguely equivalent to the centre left types in this thread funding GH to go fuck shit up. Why would he take the money from sources he doesn’t believe in? Fuck knows? Why would people pay GH to do things they don’t agree with or want? Fuck knows? A hypothetical that I hope you find as preposterous as I intended when I typed it out. Featuring a few forum posters. Now extrapolate that out to Soros funding things on the much greater scale being alleged, it doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny. If your worldview is anything left of Reagan is communism then yeah Soros funds a lot of Commie stuff, openly btw. If you can vaguely delineate between various strands of leftism then no not so much. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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