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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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Northern Ireland25635 Posts
On May 31 2020 22:02 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 21:57 iamthedave wrote:On May 31 2020 21:29 BerserkSword wrote:On May 31 2020 21:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 31 2020 20:56 BerserkSword wrote:On May 31 2020 20:45 GreenHorizons wrote:the vast majority of African American community leaders do not condone any of this nonsense either. Worth noting that it wouldn't really make sense for leaders to endorse a demonstration to their failure to secure basic human dignity for the people they purportedly represent after decades of those people putting their trust in said leaders to secure that dignity. It would be those leaders abandoning the system from which their authority in such matters is derived. Maybe leaders is not the right word. I'm not talking about the "leaders" involved in politics, many of which failed/sold out - agreed. I'm talking about the community figures - the boys club leaders, teachers, local preachers, coaches - anyone who tries to mentor kids in the hood but are fighting a losing battle. The ones who actually care. That's typically divided along class lines and people that are worried about when they go back to work with the white authorities in those systems taking retribution on them and their efforts. Alternatively it's just survival instinct, which is really just a separation between people that would rather die on their feet than live on their knees imo. That said there's a strain of choose your battles wisely with some substance but only from those with some familiarity with the underlying revolutionary theory, not blind appeasement to fascists. EDIT: To be clear, I think we'd all just like if america got it's shit together without riots or even protests this many decades into this issue. What youre saying isn't incorrect, but I think the problem needs to be addressed starting at a deeper level. Like I mentioned - NYC, which is over 50% blackand hispanic, voted Bloomberg in an unprecedented 3x. I've been to two events in which I have heard Schumer speak off the record, and both times I've heard him TRASH minorities (he was more or less saying thank god for black and spanish workers from queens and the bronx who were willing to commute to NYCs top hospitals to work as cleaners in a condescending way) These cats are voted in over and over. And guys like Biden, who actually came out and tried to administer the "black card" , freely get the majority of the black vote. There are some major problems, and many are due to the failure/selling out of the african american "leaders" you first referred to. I don't see how rioting, and, in the process, ruining innocent lives and possibly antagonizing certain groups. Maybe unwittingly, but you're neatly summarising GH's point about how the ballot box doesn't work. Despite appearances, minorities don't have anyone to vote for. The Republicans actively hate them and the Democrats treat them with paternalistic condescension. People saying 'rioting isn't the answer' are just hiding from the fact that every other option has been tried, and tried for decades. Moreover it ignores that uprisings aren't intended to be the solution they are meant to be the impetus to finally enact the solutions the government has been violently resisting for decades. It's remarkable to me how people's contextual awareness is so insular when they want it to be.
I would have thought this was obvious unless people are being wilfully ignorant or disingenuous.
Granted maybe that’s informed by where I’m from and Sinn Fein/IRA’s catchily named strategy of the armalite in one hand and the ballot box in the other. When legitimate politics eventually crosses the finish line everything before is brushed away, like a relay running race where only the guy doing the final leg gets the medal.
Speaking of Norn Iron we’ve reformed the police rather heavily post Good Friday, as a contrast to the US. Still not quite there but strides have been made in restoring trust in an institution that was an instrument of British power only a generation ago.
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People get tired with rioting eventually,it wont even take that long. 1-3 more days max and then everything has calmed down again. (at least i think and hope it will).
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On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class.
If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt.
Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it.
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On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it.
Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change.
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On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change. YOU do it to prove YOU care about change.
To be fair I'm (and I think everyone would be) supportive of migrating the uprisings into neighborhoods like we saw yesterday in Beverly Hills, but the police fight fiercely to keep them trapped in specific areas on purpose, and the people of the Beverly Hills of the country aren't exactly known for their empathy.
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How about your neighborhood? Would you like to migrate them their.
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On May 31 2020 22:41 puppykiller wrote:
How about your neighborhood? Would you like to migrate them their.
By any and all means necessary imo.
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On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change.
False dichotomy.
Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"...
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On May 31 2020 22:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:41 puppykiller wrote:
How about your neighborhood? Would you like to migrate them their. By any and all means necessary imo.
Ok, I think you should try to do that then. That is a way you can contribute to the rioting. You burn your car or house and submit the video to a news agency. If you truly believe "any means necessary" and this is the means you advocate for... this would be a great opportunity to prove you are really pushing the cause rather than simply gliding along for the ride when it doesn't hurt you the way it hurts others.
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On May 31 2020 22:52 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. False dichotomy. Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"...
You want to make this deep, OK let's see if you can. Walk through my logic to prove you understand it. Articulate which part makes it a false dichotomy. Can you do this?
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On May 31 2020 22:52 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. False dichotomy. Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"...
I'm not optimistic we're getting anything more than them repeating that at this point.
At some point people have to see such obtuse obstinance for what it is.
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On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change.
I'm gonna repeat what I said maybe 10 pages ago.
I live in the Twin Cities. I'm both directly and indirectly affected by the rioting and protests. Countless business owners, from tiny mom 'n' pap stores to the CEO of Target, have openly said "Black lives matter more than material property. Protest on."
That should tell you something.
Also, we covered these ridiculous arguments about the reason for rioting like 10 pages ago. No one except anarchists supports rioting in-and-of-itself. We're trying to explain that the reason for the rioting is what the discussion should be about.
People that are more concerned with making the discussion about the damage caused by the rioting instead of why the rioting started in the first place display a depressing lack of empathy.
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On May 31 2020 22:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:52 nojok wrote:On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. False dichotomy. Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"... I'm not optimistic we're getting anything more than them repeating that at this point.
I'll drop it if you can show me where it isn't a reasonable response to the whole "if you don't support the rioting, you dont support black lives". Otherwise I think it stands as a point of hypocrisy in your system.
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On May 31 2020 22:55 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:52 nojok wrote:On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. False dichotomy. Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"... You want to make this deep, OK let's see if you can. Walk through my logic to prove you understand it. Articulate which part makes it a false dichotomy. Can you do this?
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Because it's not a simple choice between "don't care" or "care and burn your house"?
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On May 31 2020 22:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. I'm gonna repeat what I said maybe 10 pages ago. I live in the Twin Cities. I'm both directly and indirectly affected by the rioting and protests. Countless business owners, from tiny mom 'n' pap stores to the CEO of Target, have openly said "Black lives matter more than material property. Protest on." That should tell you something. Also, we covered these ridiculous arguments about the reason for rioting like 10 pages ago. No one except anarchists supports rioting in-and-of-itself. We're trying to explain that the reason for the rioting is what the discussion should be about. People that are more concerned with making the discussion about the damage caused by the rioting instead of why the rioting started in the first place display a depressing lack of empathy.
Your right. We all agree Black Lives Matter most. But if they support the destruction, why has every single business been boarding up all day. If they believe the fires are the solution and think this is the fastest way to the solution would they bother boarding up? No one cares till they're the martyr.
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On May 31 2020 23:00 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 31 2020 22:52 nojok wrote:On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. False dichotomy. Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"... I'm not optimistic we're getting anything more than them repeating that at this point. I'll drop it if you can show me where it isn't a reasonable response to the whole "if you don't support the rioting, you dont support black lives". Otherwise I think it stands as a point of hypocrisy in your system.
I don't care if you drop it, I would just hope people give it/your argument the consideration it deserves.
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On May 31 2020 23:00 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:55 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:52 nojok wrote:On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. False dichotomy. Dude you're really trying your hardest to dumb down the thread. It would be interesting to have an articulate opinion from you as your stance on the subject is quite far apart from the average user. Instead you just choose to tell us "burn your house or you don' care"... You want to make this deep, OK let's see if you can. Walk through my logic to prove you understand it. Articulate which part makes it a false dichotomy. Can you do this? ... Because it's not a simple choice between "don't care" or "care and burn your house"?
For me it was. When I said I didn't want peoples houses to burn you all said I didn't care. So now I'm reflecting that on you. But the reflection seems to cause cognitive dissonance. So you can't see it.
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On May 31 2020 23:03 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 22:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. I'm gonna repeat what I said maybe 10 pages ago. I live in the Twin Cities. I'm both directly and indirectly affected by the rioting and protests. Countless business owners, from tiny mom 'n' pap stores to the CEO of Target, have openly said "Black lives matter more than material property. Protest on." That should tell you something. Also, we covered these ridiculous arguments about the reason for rioting like 10 pages ago. No one except anarchists supports rioting in-and-of-itself. We're trying to explain that the reason for the rioting is what the discussion should be about. People that are more concerned with making the discussion about the damage caused by the rioting instead of why the rioting started in the first place display a depressing lack of empathy. Your right. We all agree Black Lives Matter most. But if they support the destruction, why has every single business been boarding up all day. If they believe the fires are the solution and think this is the fastest way to the solution would they bother boarding up? No one cares till they're the martyr.
Who said "Black Lives Matter most"?
Sounds like far right.
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On May 31 2020 23:05 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2020 23:03 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 31 2020 22:29 puppykiller wrote:On May 31 2020 22:20 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:On May 31 2020 22:07 puppykiller wrote:
Guys I don't know what to say. You think destroying our communities is the way to get change, and your dead set on it. Your not gonna convince me I mean... I live there. No one I know who actually lives in the targeted areas is into it... no one. And that is a broad array of race and class. If the risk of your house burning to the ground is what it takes to give a damn about police accountability and the lives of black citizens, then you're gonna live with the risk of your house being burnt. Here in SA the person who ended up being the first post-apartheid president was involved in activities that the apartheid government and much of the white population considered terrorism. A serious threat to basic safety and infrastructure (as well as international sanctions) was, however, very much a necessary part of forcing the end of apartheid. It's a lot easier for institutional powers to be convinced into making changes when its constituent's lives depend on it. Ok then please burn your neighborhood down to prove YOU care about police accountability. If that's what you think I have to do to prove I care, I think that's what you have to do to prove you care. Otherwise your just choosing some else to do the martyr work. If your into the cause, and this is what makes change, YOU do it to prove YOU care about change. I'm gonna repeat what I said maybe 10 pages ago. I live in the Twin Cities. I'm both directly and indirectly affected by the rioting and protests. Countless business owners, from tiny mom 'n' pap stores to the CEO of Target, have openly said "Black lives matter more than material property. Protest on." That should tell you something. Also, we covered these ridiculous arguments about the reason for rioting like 10 pages ago. No one except anarchists supports rioting in-and-of-itself. We're trying to explain that the reason for the rioting is what the discussion should be about. People that are more concerned with making the discussion about the damage caused by the rioting instead of why the rioting started in the first place display a depressing lack of empathy. Your right. We all agree Black Lives Matter most. But if they support the destruction, why has every single business been boarding up all day. If they believe the fires are the solution and think this is the fastest way to the solution would they bother boarding up? No one cares till they're the martyr. Who said "Black Lives Matter most"? Sounds like far right.
The mask always slips eventually
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Are we all forgetting that a significant amount of the violence has been perpetrated by or otherwise antagonized by the police?
There are widespread, undeniable reports of the police firing tear gas and rubber bullets at peaceful protesters and medical personnel, shooting paint shells at people standing in their homes, driving vehicles into crowds of peaceful protesters, etc.
If anything, last night just made the police look worse.
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EPT
