EPTI see a lot of people talking about being critical who seem to really cherish an articulate discussion. I have mapped out my arguments one step at a time, responded to all your criticisms, and I think I've touched a nerve. If you want to talk quality arguments give a quality careful response. All I see is two people who are trying to defer.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2352
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
I see a lot of people talking about being critical who seem to really cherish an articulate discussion. I have mapped out my arguments one step at a time, responded to all your criticisms, and I think I've touched a nerve. If you want to talk quality arguments give a quality careful response. All I see is two people who are trying to defer. | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:11 Stratos_speAr wrote: Are we all forgetting that a significant amount of the violence has been perpetrated by or otherwise antagonized by the police? There are widespread, undeniable reports of the police firing tear gas and rubber bullets at peaceful protesters and medical personnel, shooting paint shells at people standing in their homes, driving vehicles into crowds of peaceful protesters, etc. If anything, last night just made the police look worse. Yes, totally irrelevant to my topic. Would you like me to lay out why. Since you live in my city I have the patience. BTW did you attend an SC2 lan last summer? If so I might even know you. | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States24024 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:11 puppykiller wrote: Black Lives Matter most (over property). How is that evidence I'm far right? I see a lot of people talking about being critical who seem to really cherish an articulate discussion. I have mapped out my arguments one step at a time, responded to all your criticisms, and I think I've touched a nerve. If you want to talk quality arguments give a quality careful response. All I see is two people who are trying to defer. Part of the reason people were able to identify your argument as far right is your rhetorical slip in the argument which is basically "you want to raise my taxes why don't you give away all your money first". There's lots of signs if people bother to look though. | ||
|
nojok
France15846 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:11 puppykiller wrote: Black Lives Matter most (over property). How is that evidence I'm far right? I see a lot of people talking about being critical who seem to really cherish an articulate discussion. I have mapped out my arguments one step at a time, responded to all your criticisms, and I think I've touched a nerve. If you want to talk quality arguments give a quality careful response. All I see is two people who are trying to defer. Ok I'll recap my stance (given the issues are quite the same in France, even though Francce is a less violent country and we have a decent social protection making our poorest less poor by comparison) : - There are lot of problems stemming from racism - Many actions were taken to peacefully solve the problem, mostly ignored - It has solved nothing - Victims eventually melt down after an emotional event Sure the state has to take actions against rioters but more importantly it has to take care of the issues which lead to those events. We're not saying they're acting well, nor that those riots will solve the problems. We're saying we've seen it coming and that it's time to address the real issues. | ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:13 puppykiller wrote: Yes, totally irrelevant to my topic. Would you like me to lay out why. Since you live in my city I have the patience. BTW did you attend an SC2 lan last summer? If so I might even know you. Negative, I was gone on military orders most of last summer. | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote: Part of the reason people were able to identify your argument as far right is your rhetorical slip in the argument which is basically "you want to raise my taxes why don't you give away all your money first". There's lots of signs if people bother to look though. You have deferred again. At this point I think you are either trolling or mentally disabled. I will give you one more chance to actually engage my argument. If you fail again I will move on to... GREENER HORIZONS! | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States24024 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:22 puppykiller wrote: You have deferred again. At this point I think you are either trolling or mentally disabled. I will give you one more chance to actually engage my argument. If you fail again I will move on to... GREENER HORIZONS! lol, it's slipping again. Move along with my support *checks notes* puppykiller | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
In Rochester, an unarmed husband and wife dared to stand outside their shop. First it was only the wife. She was punched by someone in the mob. The husband came out to defend her, and both were beaten with fists and 2x4s. I hope Antifa is soon declared a domestic terrorist organization. | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:21 nojok wrote: Ok I'll recap my stance (given the issues are quite the same in France, even though Francce is a less violent country and we have a decent social protection making our poorest less poor by comparison) : - There are lot of problems stemming from racism - Many actions were taken to peacefully solve the problem, mostly ignored - It has solved nothing - Victims eventually melt down after an emotional event Sure the state has to take actions against rioters but more importantly it has to take care of the issues which lead to those events. We're not saying they're acting well, nor that those riots will solve the problems. We're saying we've seen it coming and that it's time to address the real issues. Ok I will respond to this by saying that I agree with absolutely every single thing you wrote. Based on what you wrote I would wager we agree on a lot more. I don't think it addresses the core of what I've been saying though. My stance is, if destruction is the way to solve this, and black lives matter more than property, and those that lament the destruction of property "must not care enough about black lives". Why isn't anyone destroying their own property to aid the cause. Not their neighbors, their own. | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote: lol, it's slipping again. Move along with my support *checks notes* puppykiller Welp I guess you threw in the towel when you realized you couldn't keep up. Better up your game :p Peace | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States24024 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:30 Xxio wrote: In Portland, a lone and unarmed man was chased down by a mob, pushed to the ground, and kicked in the head while facedown on the ground. After he slowly got up, bloody faced and missing teeth, a woman pointed a finger in his face and said, "we're helping you. Do not protest against black lives. Guess what? We're showing up for you, even though you're being terrible to people." This is a good example of how quickly the radical left tries to paint themselves as victims in every encounter. I'm not sure if it is a sincere gaslighting attempt or if the woman's cognitive dissonance is so deep that she believes her own words. In Rochester, an unarmed husband and wife dared to stand outside their shop. First it was only the wife. She was punched by someone in the mob. The husband came out to defend her, and both were beaten with fists and 2x4s. I hope Antifa is soon declared a domestic terrorist organization. I feel like that's a little too on the nose, even for you. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States46060 Posts
George Floyd Autopsy Draws Outrage For 'Victim Blaming' And Absolving Police Officer The report's mention of "potential intoxicants" has many skeptical. A "Statement of Probable Cause" of the death of George Floyd has been released by the City of Minneapolis, and it concludes that Floyd's death was due to underlying health conditions, not strangulation. "The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," the statement reads, according to CNN. "Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death." According to the statement, "Defendant [Officer Derek Chauvin] had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive." The statement also details Floyd's final moments. Read the full statement, below: [in twitter posts] https://www.bet.com/news/national/2020/05/29/george-floyd-autopsy-claims-no-findings-of--traumatic-asphyxia-o.html | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22417 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This is why there is no public trust but riots.I just learned about this... apparently, the medical examiner is trying to cover up George Floyd's murder by saying that Floyd actually died from his own health problems and drugs, and not from the police officers. Now the Floyd family needs to literally hire an independent medical examiner. Even people like Meghan McCain are outraged at this crap. https://www.bet.com/news/national/2020/05/29/george-floyd-autopsy-claims-no-findings-of--traumatic-asphyxia-o.html Someone else earlier mentioned people should wait for the system to do its work and complain if the cop went free. This has happened time and time again, people have waited for the system to deliver time and time again. | ||
|
Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:11 Stratos_speAr wrote: Are we all forgetting that a significant amount of the violence has been perpetrated by or otherwise antagonized by the police? There are widespread, undeniable reports of the police firing tear gas and rubber bullets at peaceful protesters and medical personnel, shooting paint shells at people standing in their homes, driving vehicles into crowds of peaceful protesters, etc. If anything, last night just made the police look worse. Not to mention how many fires that got started because of tear gas catching. | ||
|
nojok
France15846 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:31 puppykiller wrote: Ok I will respond to this by saying that I agree with absolutely every single thing you wrote. Based on what you wrote I would wager we agree on a lot more. I don't think it addresses the core of what I've been saying though. My stance is, if destruction is the way to solve this, and black lives matter more than property, and those that lament the destruction of property "must not care enough about black lives". Why isn't anyone destroying their own property to aid the cause. Not their neighbors, their own. It were spontaneous gatherings, filled with anger. Then humans being humans. I doubt even a tenth of the protesters participated in the lootings. It should not be the focus of those events, nor shall it be entirely ignored. | ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
For those of you who have researched this a lot from multiple news sources, let me ask you: Don't you have many unanswered questions about conflicting narratives and strange events? | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:47 nojok wrote: It were spontaneous gatherings, filled with anger. Then humans being humans. I doubt even a tenth of the protesters participated in the lootings. It should not be the focus of those events, nor shall it be entirely ignored. Sounds like we agree again. I might not have any issue with your perspective. The people I disagree with are the ones thinking that: 1: The looting/arson is the pathway of change we should be actively pursuing, 2: That this looting/arson is commendable so long as it is being done by or on the behalf of oppressed minorities 3: Those who oppose it don't value black lives enough | ||
|
StalkerTL
212 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:31 puppykiller wrote: Ok I will respond to this by saying that I agree with absolutely every single thing you wrote. Based on what you wrote I would wager we agree on a lot more. I don't think it addresses the core of what I've been saying though. My stance is, if destruction is the way to solve this, and black lives matter more than property, and those that lament the destruction of property "must not care enough about black lives". Why isn't anyone destroying their own property to aid the cause. Not their neighbors, their own. We’ve been through this already. Destruction of property during riots are always of their own urban environments. It is because the people participating in the riots feel no collective ownership of the environment they live in. You have to them ask yourself why people might feel this way and feel such a disconnect from their community, surrounding urban environment and public infrastructure. If you can answer that you know damn well why they’re not setting fire to their own houses and property. The solution to riots is to make sure there’s no reason for them to occur in the first place. A riot like this doesn’t exist in wealthy gated communities for a reason. | ||
|
Furikawari
France2522 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:54 puppykiller wrote: Sounds like we agree again. I might not have any issue with your perspective. The people I disagree with are the ones thinking that: 1: The looting/arson is the pathway of change we should be actively pursuing, 2: That this looting/arson is commendable so long as it is being done by or on the behalf of oppressed minorities 3: Those who oppose it don't value black lives enough From your first post thet I noticed 3 or 4 pages ago I was going to remind people about Bourdieu and social lift (ascenceur social in french) and how the luckiest one that can benefit of the broken lift are the harder to defend the system. You're such a perfect example of this. | ||
|
puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On May 31 2020 23:56 StalkerTL wrote: We’ve been through this already. Destruction of property during riots are always of their own urban environments. It is because the people participating in the riots feel no collective ownership of the environment they live in. You have to them ask yourself why people might feel this way and feel such a disconnect from their community, surrounding urban environment and public infrastructure. If you can answer you, you know damn well why they’re not setting fire to their own houses and property. A lot of people aren't setting fire to their literal own business, but instead their neighbors business. Maybe not next door, but another person within a few miles, who is perhaps oppressed by the system or perhaps not, and has just as much right to their property as anyone else. Thus people riot for change, but who they destroy for change, and how they choose them is very unjust. Maybe it doesn't feel unjust in the heat of a moment. But it is. I have to go to bed, I have been up all night. | ||
| ||
