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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On April 15 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote: Trump has halted payments to the WHO. Per NBC reporter. Important due to foreign relations implications and effects on those who rely on WHO aide. And this is why it's ridiculous to claim that Trump and Biden are the same. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On April 15 2020 09:18 Belisarius wrote: And this is why it's ridiculous to claim that Trump and Biden are the same. No one does that in the literal sense. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
This is the consequence. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On April 15 2020 09:48 Belisarius wrote: You are doing that every time you try to convince people they should aid Trump's re-election by abstaining. This is the consequence. No one is trying to convince people to abstain either, especially not myself. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On April 15 2020 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote: Voting Biden is bidding a $1.05 (at best imo) for the dollar. Countless people have been through this with you countless times and you continue to deflect and twist and nuh-uh while posting nonsense like this with no reference to the alternative. In the middle of the most obvious and catastrophic consequence of a Trump presidency that anyone could have asked for, America has the choice to vote for Biden or suffer the further consequences of a further Trump presidency. Those are the options. You are free to select the one you desire. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On April 15 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote: Trump has halted payments to the WHO. Per NBC reporter. Important due to foreign relations implications and effects on those who rely on WHO aide. https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1250186417134809090 Again, you are free to select the one you desire. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Anyways, youre right, Im free to select, and unless I see some seriously major policy concessions from whoever is in charge of Biden then I fully intend to vote third party. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On April 15 2020 09:50 GreenHorizons wrote: No one is trying to convince people to abstain either, especially not myself. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
EDIT: Amen ^ | ||
micronesia
United States24812 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On April 15 2020 08:32 Nevuk wrote: Trump has halted payments to the WHO. Per NBC reporter. Important due to foreign relations implications and effects on those who rely on WHO aide. https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1250186417134809090 Perhaps the more dangerous road might be the one with thousand and thousands of deaths from a pandemic less than two years after the nation's pandemic response team was fired™. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
If the Democrats want my vote they can earn it, I'm positive they know HOW to earn it, the only question is if they value my vote enough to earn it, and for better or worse I'm pretty sure they don't. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8224 Posts
On April 15 2020 10:30 Salazarz wrote: You realize that 'vote for us, or an even bigger evil wins' has been the rhetoric of every single shitty mandate in history of humanity ever, yeah? Not to say that Trump remaining in charge is a great prospect, but insisting that everybody should not just accept, but get behind anything put forth by Dems because, 'well at least it's not Trump' is an incredibly dangerous road to take. You're more or less confirming that you'll eat whatever shit sandwich you're served, so long as they can convince you the second choice on the menu stinks even more; it's not a path to improvement, it's a path to dragging down the opposition. What's an really incredibly dangerous road to take at that point is a second mandate for Trump. US democracy might simply not survive that. And the absolute only thing standing between Trump and a second mandate is Biden. You have the choice between a sandwich you don't reaaaally like and a soup of dig poop. And you are saying you refuse to chose. All in all, a Biden presidency will certainly leave the country in a better state than it is now. One could expect a higher bar, but that's ok. So your reasoning is really bad, because you don't have to chose between two evils. You have to chose between a huge evil and a good you believe to be unsatisfactory. On April 15 2020 10:39 Zambrah wrote: You're presuming that progressives belong to the Democrats though, I maintain that our votes have to be earned, people often point out how Bernie isnt "really" a democrat and how hes an independent, but why are his supporters and progressives in general treated as though we're the block of independents that owes it's undying fealty to the Democrats, whilst the moderates have to be earned through as many policy concessions as can be thrown their way? If the Democrats want my vote they can earn it, I'm positive they know HOW to earn it, the only question is if they value my vote enough to earn it, and for better or worse I'm pretty sure they don't. It's not about you, and it's not a beauty pageant contest. It's about the millions of people who will either die or suffer immensely if Trump has to keep managing this pandemic, and the future of this country as a democracy. Of course progressives belong to the democrats. Someone like Obama and someone like Sanders are extremely close in their visions, their difference is more a question of method and rhetoric than anything substantial. If Obama could have done whatever he wanted, he would have transformed that country into basically a scandinavian-like nation, which, despite the talks of ending capitalism and The Revolution, is basically Sanders platform. It's just that Sanders has a demographic that likes to hear about The Revolution and The Fight Against The System, while Obama had to appeal to Joe Moderate who is terrified by those words. But essentially, it's more or less one vision with two ways to get there, and two discourses to get elected. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On April 15 2020 10:39 Zambrah wrote: You're presuming that progressives belong to the Democrats though, I maintain that our votes have to be earned, people often point out how Bernie isnt "really" a democrat and how hes an independent, but why are his supporters and progressives in general treated as though we're the block of independents that owes it's undying fealty to the Democrats, whilst the moderates have to be earned through as many policy concessions as can be thrown their way? If the Democrats want my vote they can earn it, I'm positive they know HOW to earn it, the only question is if they value my vote enough to earn it, and for better or worse I'm pretty sure they don't. Well put. The framing of all progressives as merely a wing of the Democratic Party is disingenuous. Treating them as floating voters requires actually enticing them which is probably why that framing isn’t used much. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On April 15 2020 10:39 Zambrah wrote: You're presuming that progressives belong to the Democrats though, I maintain that our votes have to be earned, people often point out how Bernie isnt "really" a democrat and how hes an independent, but why are his supporters and progressives in general treated as though we're the block of independents that owes it's undying fealty to the Democrats, whilst the moderates have to be earned through as many policy concessions as can be thrown their way? If the Democrats want my vote they can earn it, I'm positive they know HOW to earn it, the only question is if they value my vote enough to earn it, and for better or worse I'm pretty sure they don't. Moreover it pretends Democrats didn't intentionally elevate Trump in the first place. (Bipartisan, and I think intro would back me on this) Centrist hubris and intransigence is what got us Trump, and it is going to secure his second term. | ||
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micronesia
United States24812 Posts
On April 15 2020 10:50 Wombat_NI wrote: Well put. The framing of all progressives as merely a wing of the Democratic Party is disingenuous. Treating them as floating voters requires actually enticing them which is probably why that framing isn’t used much. Since the USA currently lives in a two party system (which I don't like) where outsiders have no chance of winning the general election, the outcome of the next election can only be predicted based on who votes to support the R candidate/incumbent and who votes to support the D candidate. Personally, I think that progressive ideals currently align better with the democrats than the GOP, and it makes sense that Bernie ran in the democrat primary. For the next four years, the needle moves further towards progressive ideals with the democrat than they do with the incumbent. They can try to play the long game, but so long as they don't have enough support to win a primary, their ideals won't be catered to in the general election. In contrast, the running average of U.S. policy and supreme court justices will shift further away from progressive ideals. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8224 Posts
On April 15 2020 10:52 GreenHorizons wrote: Moreover it pretends Democrats didn't intentionally elevate Trump in the first place. (Bipartisan, and I think intro would back me on this) Centrist hubris and intransigence is what got us Trump, and it is going to secure his second term. I think what got us Trump are people like you and you seem committed to get him a second term. I suspect you are totally fine with the immense damage he will do; you might get your guy through next time so it's worth it. And how you have the balls to accuse anyone of intransigence considering your attitude and position is beyond me. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Its more than a little frustrating to apparently have so much power and be expected to use it for people who refuse to acknowledge our wants and needs. | ||
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