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On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge.
A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first.
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On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first.
If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug.
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On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. Yes, there have been several media interviews with people trapped in the Fox bubble that have indicated they literally don’t know what is in the report. Having people explicitly talking about it may help inform people of what is going on.
Edit: but yes I agree that this probably won’t change anything and those who are too far into the bubble won’t see any of this anyway.
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On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this. I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug.
Heh. I'm actually quite pessimistic by now and kind of agree with your assessment. The system does not seem to be very resistant to consistently giving it the middle finger.
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On July 24 2019 22:51 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. Yes, there have been several media interviews with people trapped in the Fox bubble that have indicated they literally don’t know what is in the report. Having people explicitly talking about it may help inform people of what is going on. Edit: but yes I agree that this probably won’t change anything and those who are too far into the bubble won’t see any of this anyway.
This hoping Republicans would change their opinions if they heard this stuff has always bought into Republican's own bullshit too much for me.
At the political level at least (and wide swaths of the electorate) their problem with Trump isn't his bigotry, criminality, etc... it's that he makes it hard for them to pretend it's not real/problematic/beliefs they share. "I wouldn't say it like that..." is a common refrain, but it's not that they disagree with what he's saying, but that he didn't say it in a way that allows "plausible" deniability of the worst aspects of it.
EDIT: The difference in perspective of the US/electorate is what allowed a lot of people like me to see Trump's success/avoiding accountability coming while a lot of professional pollsters, pundits, and people in general were caught completely off guard.
Trump isn't an anomaly imo, but an inevitability of the US. If it wasn't Trump specifically, another Trump like figure was coming.
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On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see.
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Crazy how you can be blind and recognize Republicans 90% of the time by their characteristic Southern-ish accent.
Had a bit of time this morning to tune in and try seeing what the hype was about, good lord what a waste of time. Not a single person (Mueller included) is interested in further objective analysis of the report and are instead driving through whatever talking points they want, with Mueller agreeing with Dems and forcing Repubs to soliloquy. Sunk cost fallacy is keeping me watching though (I’ve already spent this long watching, surely SOMETHING meaningful will come out of this!)
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On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see.
Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose?
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On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly.
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Why are republicans angry that he wrote a lot of words
I guess I shouldnt take Gaetz too seriously. He's really really mad that he had to read 3500 words
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On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly.
He’s implying the checks and balances system was actually designed from the beginning to benefit those who were in power, while putting up the facade that its purpose was to serve as a just and fair government system.
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On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly.
Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose?
On July 24 2019 23:25 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. He’s implying the checks and balances system was actually designed from the beginning to benefit those who were in power, while putting up the facade that its purpose was to serve as a just and fair government system.
My experiences and research has lead me to that conclusion, so I'm asking others to ask themselves whether what they believe/d matches the reality of US checks and balances past and present.
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On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Considering you have a President and a 2 party system its purpose is entirely designed to concentrate power in the hands of individual and groups.
I'm talking about Congress making sure the President isn't a complete lunatic.
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On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:25 Ryzel wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. He’s implying the checks and balances system was actually designed from the beginning to benefit those who were in power, while putting up the facade that its purpose was to serve as a just and fair government system. My experiences and research has lead me to that conclusion, so I'm asking others to ask themselves whether what they believe/d matches the reality of US checks and balances past and present.
My current impression is that it certainly doesn’t seem to be effective today, but I have trouble understanding how the concept of judicial, executive, and legislative branches holding each other accountable results in concentrating power into ingroups. The exception, of course, is if there was an ingroup that the majority of each of those three branches belonged to. Which for a while there was (landowning white dudes), but given that there’s a lot less of those proportionally today than 200 years ago, that would imply it’s doing a bad job at that as well, right?
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On July 24 2019 23:31 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Considering you have a President and a 2 party system its purpose is entirely designed to concentrate power in the hands of individual and groups. I'm talking about Congress making sure the President isn't a complete lunatic.
Not exactly what "checks and balances" is supposed to refer to, but point taken. I think you can still answer the question in that context though. With the limitation of "making sure the president isn't a complete lunatic" is that something it's doing/done or simply something it does in name only?
On July 24 2019 23:37 Ryzel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
I don't think the clips for this are going to be worth much politically and holding Trump accountable for his campaign and presidency is basically completely off the table now. The best we'll get is keeping him to one term and giving him a pile of money as far as I can tell. Yeah I think it's sad but true All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? On July 24 2019 23:25 Ryzel wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
[quote]
Yeah I think it's sad but true
All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. He’s implying the checks and balances system was actually designed from the beginning to benefit those who were in power, while putting up the facade that its purpose was to serve as a just and fair government system. My experiences and research has lead me to that conclusion, so I'm asking others to ask themselves whether what they believe/d matches the reality of US checks and balances past and present. My current impression is that it certainly doesn’t seem to be effective today, but I have trouble understanding how the concept of judicial, executive, and legislative branches holding each other accountable results in concentrating power into ingroups. The exception, of course, is if there was an ingroup that the majority of each of those three branches belonged to. Which for a while there was (landowning white dudes), but given that there’s a lot less of those proportionally today than 200 years ago, that would imply it’s doing a bad job at that as well, right?
The capitalist class would be the largest umbrella group with increasing shares of power and wealth as you tread through white club and approach the oligarchs of US society (which granted, is more phenotypically diverse than it was before). + Show Spoiler +That might not make a lot of sense if you didn't follow those conversations here in the thread. If so let me know and I can reword it.
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On July 24 2019 23:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:31 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
[quote]
Yeah I think it's sad but true
All the Sessions/Rosenstein manipulation stuff sure does sound really bad for Trump when spoken out loud though. Maybe it will have an effect on everyone who didnt read it None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it. That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans. Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Considering you have a President and a 2 party system its purpose is entirely designed to concentrate power in the hands of individual and groups. I'm talking about Congress making sure the President isn't a complete lunatic. Not exactly what "checks and balances" is supposed to refer to, but point taken. I think you can still answer the question in that context though. With the limitation of "making sure the president isn't a complete lunatic" is that something it's doing/done or simply something it does in name only? It, eventually, removed Nixon. Its not going to remove Trump.
And yeah sure complain about Nixon getting away with it, but atleast something happened.
Which is a lot more then we're seeing now.
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On July 24 2019 23:42 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:31 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On July 24 2019 22:37 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
None of this is anything that wasn't reported and exaggerated for months if not years before the report came out. The report was basically less bad than the years of reporting on what it would say before it.
That's to say the report is less damning than it was billed to be (and even described by media after it came out) so it's more likely to result in feelings of disappointment for Democrats and "meh" for Republicans.
Mueller was supposed to be a fire-breathing locomotive of justice and he turned out to be a power wheels car with half a charge. A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first. If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Considering you have a President and a 2 party system its purpose is entirely designed to concentrate power in the hands of individual and groups. I'm talking about Congress making sure the President isn't a complete lunatic. Not exactly what "checks and balances" is supposed to refer to, but point taken. I think you can still answer the question in that context though. With the limitation of "making sure the president isn't a complete lunatic" is that something it's doing/done or simply something it does in name only? It, eventually, removed Nixon. Its not going to remove Trump. And yeah sure complain about Nixon getting away with it, but atleast something happened. Which is a lot more then we're seeing now.
I mean it didn't technically remove him, he walked away (before he could potentially be forced, who knows what might have happened if he would have called their bet and made them vote him out) with a bag of money and 0 accountability from my perspective.
"More than now" is vague and a pretty low bar, and retiring with loads of cash and your freedom isn't what I would consider accountability or "making sure the president wasn't a lunatic".
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On July 24 2019 23:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:42 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:31 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
[quote]
A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first.
If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Considering you have a President and a 2 party system its purpose is entirely designed to concentrate power in the hands of individual and groups. I'm talking about Congress making sure the President isn't a complete lunatic. Not exactly what "checks and balances" is supposed to refer to, but point taken. I think you can still answer the question in that context though. With the limitation of "making sure the president isn't a complete lunatic" is that something it's doing/done or simply something it does in name only? It, eventually, removed Nixon. Its not going to remove Trump. And yeah sure complain about Nixon getting away with it, but atleast something happened. Which is a lot more then we're seeing now. I mean it didn't technically remove him, he walked away (before he could potentially be forced, who knows what might have happened if he would have called their bet and made them vote him out) with a bag of money and 0 accountability from my perspective. "More than now" is vague and a pretty low bar, and retiring with loads of cash and your freedom isn't what I would consider accountability or "making sure the president wasn't a lunatic".
He also has a nice center dedicated to him in Yorba Linda. Very classy, talks about all the great things he did. No mention of the scandal. Elementary schools go there for field trips all the time.
AFA our convo GH, I’ve been keeping up with the thread and I believe I’m familiar with the White Club terminology being used, but I’m unclear which ingroup you’re referring to; White Club or capitalists? And if a capitalist is defined by one who owns the means of production, isn’t it almost tautological to say that members of the capitalist ingroup have all the power?
By that I mean, wouldn’t it be more likely that the government being filled with capitalists is a byproduct of a capitalist society than as a byproduct of checks and balances?
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On July 24 2019 23:43 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2019 23:42 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:31 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:23 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 23:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:On July 24 2019 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 24 2019 22:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
[quote]
A lot of republicans wouldn't have followed the reporting because evil fake news media. So for them it could be a first.
If they managed to not hear it this long, I'm pretty sure they won't get it from this (how would this penetrate their bubble more effectively than the last 2 years of non-stop coverage?). I appreciate the undying optimism from folks though. The question I suppose is whether the system is dysfunctional or working as intended. I think it's far too consistent in protecting powerful people from accountability for this to not be a feature rather than a bug. The governmental system of checks and balances is certainly dysfunctional, I think that much is plain to see. Is it? Or just dysfunctional relative to its nominal purpose? what do you mean? Its way to warm here for mental exercise. Speak plainly. Do US "checks and balances" function to ensure that political power is not concentrated in the hands of individuals or groups generally or is that simply their nominal (in name only) purpose? Considering you have a President and a 2 party system its purpose is entirely designed to concentrate power in the hands of individual and groups. I'm talking about Congress making sure the President isn't a complete lunatic. Not exactly what "checks and balances" is supposed to refer to, but point taken. I think you can still answer the question in that context though. With the limitation of "making sure the president isn't a complete lunatic" is that something it's doing/done or simply something it does in name only? It, eventually, removed Nixon. Its not going to remove Trump. And yeah sure complain about Nixon getting away with it, but atleast something happened. Which is a lot more then we're seeing now. I mean it didn't technically remove him, he walked away (before he could potentially be forced, who knows what might have happened if he would have called their bet and made them vote him out) with a bag of money and 0 accountability from my perspective. "More than now" is vague and a pretty low bar, and retiring with loads of cash and your freedom isn't what I would consider accountability or "making sure the president wasn't a lunatic". And?
Show me somewhere where those in power are actually held accountable and I will show you a fantasy.
Welcome to life.
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EPT
