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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1468

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
May 19 2019 01:16 GMT
#29341
On May 19 2019 08:57 Introvert wrote:
And I told you Amash is not a neutral person. In fact his kind basically doesnt exist outside the US at all, at least if the European posters here are to be believed.


What do you mean by 'his kind'?
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11593 Posts
May 19 2019 01:18 GMT
#29342
Libertarians i guess?
ieltsplug
Profile Joined May 2019
1 Post
Last Edited: 2019-05-19 01:26:40
May 19 2019 01:26 GMT
#29343
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4850 Posts
May 19 2019 01:27 GMT
#29344
On May 19 2019 10:18 Simberto wrote:
Libertarians i guess?


Yes.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
RubickPicker
Profile Joined October 2015
United States332 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-19 01:35:29
May 19 2019 01:34 GMT
#29345
There's plenty of societies that are under-developed and in poverty yet are also home to aristocratic elites who don't care about those problems. Thus libertarianism as a concept is more common globally than you'd think.
* N U K E D *
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
May 19 2019 02:39 GMT
#29346
On May 19 2019 08:32 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 05:32 xDaunt wrote:
Flynn has pleaded to a non-crime

Orwell would be proud of this amazing new world.

For those who aren't keeping track, non-crime means crime now.


Hahahah.

Well said.
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
May 19 2019 02:52 GMT
#29347
On May 19 2019 09:03 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 09:00 JimmiC wrote:
He is anti Trump/ Anti republican? Because the odd thing is basically once you talk against Trump you are no longer a good republican. Mccain, Mueller now Amash. Maybe they are not part of a conspiracy but there is actually lots of evidence, including Trumps own words and lies that indicate he is a terrible president.


Yes, he's been anti Trump since the primary. I didnt say he was a bad Republican (yet), it's a big tent. But this event in no way portends anything else. maybe if he ran for president as a libertarian (as is a rumor) he'd win a few percent more in his own district than the nation at large.


You know who else was anti Trump?

... Mike Pence
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6243 Posts
May 19 2019 06:09 GMT
#29348
On May 19 2019 08:57 Introvert wrote:
And I told you Amash is not a neutral person. In fact his kind basically doesnt exist outside the US at all, at least if the European posters here are to be believed.

That's because the people from Europe who post here are mostly from the left. They also think Sanders would be centre left in Europe (something which I would disagree with). There are plenty of libertarians / classical liberals in Europe but it's a minority ( like in the US I guess).
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4850 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-19 07:02:10
May 19 2019 07:00 GMT
#29349
On May 19 2019 15:09 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 08:57 Introvert wrote:
And I told you Amash is not a neutral person. In fact his kind basically doesnt exist outside the US at all, at least if the European posters here are to be believed.

That's because the people from Europe who post here are mostly from the left. They also think Sanders would be centre left in Europe (something which I would disagree with). There are plenty of libertarians / classical liberals in Europe but it's a minority ( like in the US I guess).


Yeah I know, it would be unwise to believe anything in this thread solely from what posters say The point is that Amash is almost one of a kind in Congress. The phrase "classical liberal" isnt good enough, at least in my estimation, and I know there are plenty of those across the pond. Again, I think a great deal of what he advocates is good, but it's simply true that he is often alone or almost alone.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12302 Posts
May 19 2019 07:44 GMT
#29350
On May 19 2019 15:09 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 08:57 Introvert wrote:
And I told you Amash is not a neutral person. In fact his kind basically doesnt exist outside the US at all, at least if the European posters here are to be believed.

That's because the people from Europe who post here are mostly from the left. They also think Sanders would be centre left in Europe (something which I would disagree with). There are plenty of libertarians / classical liberals in Europe but it's a minority ( like in the US I guess).


"Classical liberal" is one of those weasel terms that the right in America is fond of. Most people in Europe are liberals and that definitely means something else than it does in the US, but that also means something else than what Americans mean when they say classical liberal, which is basically "dishonest conservative". The framing is that the US is shifting to the left so hard that what we call conservative now would be what we called liberal xx years ago, and that's, quite simply, a lie. Liberal tradition comes from Smith and Locke, conservative tradition comes from Burke. Burke was already saying that while capitalism wasn't the best system it could be used and/or abused to maintain the systems of power that conservatives want maintained, so in a sense by pretending to be liberals when they're not the classical liberals are in full burkean tradition.

Libertarianism, I can't recall ever meeting someone who fits that definition in Europe. As co-opted by the rightwing, it's an incoherent position. So, good. Glad that we don't see a lot of those.

Sanders himself... I don't think he would be center left in Europe. Sanders' policies as they are now would be center left, but I tend to think he's further to the left than what he says and he tones it down because of the political climate of the US. He wouldn't have to do that in Europe. But typically when people say that Sanders would be center left in Europe they mean his policies and his policies as expressed today are very milquetoast socdem.
No will to live, no wish to die
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7914 Posts
May 19 2019 07:59 GMT
#29351
On May 19 2019 16:44 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 15:09 RvB wrote:
On May 19 2019 08:57 Introvert wrote:
And I told you Amash is not a neutral person. In fact his kind basically doesnt exist outside the US at all, at least if the European posters here are to be believed.

That's because the people from Europe who post here are mostly from the left. They also think Sanders would be centre left in Europe (something which I would disagree with). There are plenty of libertarians / classical liberals in Europe but it's a minority ( like in the US I guess).


"Classical liberal" is one of those weasel terms that the right in America is fond of. Most people in Europe are liberals and that definitely means something else than it does in the US, but that also means something else than what Americans mean when they say classical liberal, which is basically "dishonest conservative". The framing is that the US is shifting to the left so hard that what we call conservative now would be what we called liberal xx years ago, and that's, quite simply, a lie. Liberal tradition comes from Smith and Locke, conservative tradition comes from Burke. Burke was already saying that while capitalism wasn't the best system it could be used and/or abused to maintain the systems of power that conservatives want maintained, so in a sense by pretending to be liberals when they're not the classical liberals are in full burkean tradition.

Libertarianism, I can't recall ever meeting someone who fits that definition in Europe. As co-opted by the rightwing, it's an incoherent position. So, good. Glad that we don't see a lot of those.

Sanders himself... I don't think he would be center left in Europe. Sanders' policies as they are now would be center left, but I tend to think he's further to the left than what he says and he tones it down because of the political climate of the US. He wouldn't have to do that in Europe. But typically when people say that Sanders would be center left in Europe they mean his policies and his policies as expressed today are very milquetoast socdem.

Also « classical liberal » makes little sense because you can only understand liberalism at its foundation in its context of oppressive absolutism. In an age of multinational companies and democratic governments, this pretense of purity is just a dishonest way to push an agenda that has none of the intents of the fathers of liberalism.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
May 19 2019 11:51 GMT
#29352
On May 19 2019 10:27 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 10:18 Simberto wrote:
Libertarians i guess?


Yes.


Ah. Well we do have libertarians, but I doubt they're as intense on the subject as they are in the US.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18835 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-19 12:04:03
May 19 2019 12:02 GMT
#29353
Amash isn’t a libertarian, he’s just a West Michigan Republican who has to deal with an increasingly liberalizing Grand Rapids area, an otherwise conservative stronghold given the huge population of hardcore Calvinists. Amash regularly consorts with the Devos political machine, which also is from GR.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
May 19 2019 12:12 GMT
#29354
This is the bit where we have to debate over what danglars mean by Libertarians, as opposed to all the other people who are deciding what danglars mean by Libertarians, because at the moment I have no clue what Amash's kind of libertarian is danglars proposing he is.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28701 Posts
May 19 2019 12:29 GMT
#29355
On May 19 2019 15:09 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2019 08:57 Introvert wrote:
And I told you Amash is not a neutral person. In fact his kind basically doesnt exist outside the US at all, at least if the European posters here are to be believed.

That's because the people from Europe who post here are mostly from the left. They also think Sanders would be centre left in Europe (something which I would disagree with). There are plenty of libertarians / classical liberals in Europe but it's a minority ( like in the US I guess).


Sanders in terms of policies he supports is pretty squarely in the center in europe. But rhetorically he's pretty far left - I'd say comparable to the leftmost 10-15% of Norway's population.

And the Norwegian Ayn Rand fan politicians I know of (there are some in the progress party) are still working for a mixed economy and essentially Keynesian politics once they are in office, some forms of taxation even increasing (even if lower taxes for the wealthiest is a common denominator). I mean the degrees end up being different but basically.. Sanders has represented a political outlier in the US which is now on the verge of attaining political power, much like the Norwegian progress party has been a political outlier which has managed to attain power.

Rhetorically, both end up distancing themselves a lot from the status quo, and due to similar fundamental ideas serving as the backbone for their ideologies (various leftist thinkers from Marx to Luxemburg to local politicians to MLK for the leftist-social democratic sides, Rand Friedman Smith Heyek or whatever for right wingers) the left of center or right of center european's critique of his or her contemporary society sounds a lot like what you see from the same group in the US. However the actual policies they want to enact, or have the power to enact, is much more limited due to their point of departure. An American political shift to the left can consist of policies that would constitute a Norwegian shift to the right, while the Norwegian politician moving us rightward will sound nothing at all like the American politician pushing them to the left.

That said - there's so much about Sanders (especially his cold war positions where he was genuinely radical) that to me indicates that he would have found his political home with the socialist left rather than the labor party, if he were Norwegian. (meaning he'd be in the 10-15% most leftist in Norway). That's mostly a hunch, but basically, I think he'd want to be much further to the left than he actually would be as an american politician.
Moderator
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
May 19 2019 17:08 GMT
#29356
While looking for money laundering, Deutsche Bank personnel reported suspicious activity on Kushner's and Trump's transactions . But the higher-ups did nothing with the reports. The person reporting got side-lined and let go.

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Anti-money laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by Donald J. Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial-crimes watchdog.

The transactions, some of which involved Mr. Trump’s now-defunct foundation, set off alerts in a computer system designed to detect illicit activity, according to five current and former bank employees. Compliance staff members who then reviewed the transactions prepared so-called suspicious activity reports that they believed should be sent to a unit of the Treasury Department that polices financial crimes.

But executives at Deutsche Bank, which has lent billions of dollars to the Trump and Kushner companies, rejected their employees’ advice. The reports were never filed with the government.


In the summer of 2016, Deutsche Bank’s software flagged a series of transactions involving the real estate company of Mr. Kushner, now a senior White House adviser.

Ms. McFadden, a longtime anti-money laundering specialist in Deutsche Bank’s Jacksonville office, said she had reviewed the transactions and found that money had moved from Kushner Companies to Russian individuals. She concluded that the transactions should be reported to the government — in part because federal regulators had ordered Deutsche Bank, which had been caught laundering billions of dollars for Russians, to toughen its scrutiny of potentially illegal transactions.


After Mr. Trump became president, transactions involving him and his companies were reviewed by an anti-financial crime team at the bank called the Special Investigations Unit. That team, based in Jacksonville, produced multiple suspicious activity reports involving different entities that Mr. Trump owned or controlled, according to three former Deutsche Bank employees who saw the reports in an internal computer system.

Some of those reports involved Mr. Trump’s limited liability companies. At least one was related to transactions involving the Donald J. Trump Foundation, two employees said.

Deutsche Bank ultimately chose not to file those suspicious activity reports with the Treasury Department, either, according to three former employees. They said it was unusual for the bank to reject a series of reports involving the same high-profile client.
NYT

Just waiting for the Trump confirm-the-story-but-also-call-it-fake-news tweet. And maybe a 'joking' racial smear since the person most quoted in the article is POC.
Neosteel Enthusiast
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23426 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-19 17:40:51
May 19 2019 17:40 GMT
#29357
On May 20 2019 02:08 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
While looking for money laundering, Deutsche Bank personnel reported suspicious activity on Kushner's and Trump's transactions . But the higher-ups did nothing with the reports. The person reporting got side-lined and let go.

Show nested quote +
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Anti-money laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by Donald J. Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial-crimes watchdog.

The transactions, some of which involved Mr. Trump’s now-defunct foundation, set off alerts in a computer system designed to detect illicit activity, according to five current and former bank employees. Compliance staff members who then reviewed the transactions prepared so-called suspicious activity reports that they believed should be sent to a unit of the Treasury Department that polices financial crimes.

But executives at Deutsche Bank, which has lent billions of dollars to the Trump and Kushner companies, rejected their employees’ advice. The reports were never filed with the government.


Show nested quote +
In the summer of 2016, Deutsche Bank’s software flagged a series of transactions involving the real estate company of Mr. Kushner, now a senior White House adviser.

Ms. McFadden, a longtime anti-money laundering specialist in Deutsche Bank’s Jacksonville office, said she had reviewed the transactions and found that money had moved from Kushner Companies to Russian individuals. She concluded that the transactions should be reported to the government — in part because federal regulators had ordered Deutsche Bank, which had been caught laundering billions of dollars for Russians, to toughen its scrutiny of potentially illegal transactions.


Show nested quote +
After Mr. Trump became president, transactions involving him and his companies were reviewed by an anti-financial crime team at the bank called the Special Investigations Unit. That team, based in Jacksonville, produced multiple suspicious activity reports involving different entities that Mr. Trump owned or controlled, according to three former Deutsche Bank employees who saw the reports in an internal computer system.

Some of those reports involved Mr. Trump’s limited liability companies. At least one was related to transactions involving the Donald J. Trump Foundation, two employees said.

Deutsche Bank ultimately chose not to file those suspicious activity reports with the Treasury Department, either, according to three former employees. They said it was unusual for the bank to reject a series of reports involving the same high-profile client.
NYT

Just waiting for the Trump confirm-the-story-but-also-call-it-fake-news tweet. And maybe a 'joking' racial smear since the person most quoted in the article is POC.


I mean knowingly and intentionally doing business with Deutsche Bank, even if 100% legal, is still pretty despicable from my perspective (and always has been practically speaking). That Deutsche Bank continues to exist today is an indictment of capitalism imo.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
May 19 2019 19:43 GMT
#29358
On May 20 2019 02:40 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2019 02:08 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
While looking for money laundering, Deutsche Bank personnel reported suspicious activity on Kushner's and Trump's transactions . But the higher-ups did nothing with the reports. The person reporting got side-lined and let go.

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Anti-money laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by Donald J. Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial-crimes watchdog.

The transactions, some of which involved Mr. Trump’s now-defunct foundation, set off alerts in a computer system designed to detect illicit activity, according to five current and former bank employees. Compliance staff members who then reviewed the transactions prepared so-called suspicious activity reports that they believed should be sent to a unit of the Treasury Department that polices financial crimes.

But executives at Deutsche Bank, which has lent billions of dollars to the Trump and Kushner companies, rejected their employees’ advice. The reports were never filed with the government.


In the summer of 2016, Deutsche Bank’s software flagged a series of transactions involving the real estate company of Mr. Kushner, now a senior White House adviser.

Ms. McFadden, a longtime anti-money laundering specialist in Deutsche Bank’s Jacksonville office, said she had reviewed the transactions and found that money had moved from Kushner Companies to Russian individuals. She concluded that the transactions should be reported to the government — in part because federal regulators had ordered Deutsche Bank, which had been caught laundering billions of dollars for Russians, to toughen its scrutiny of potentially illegal transactions.


After Mr. Trump became president, transactions involving him and his companies were reviewed by an anti-financial crime team at the bank called the Special Investigations Unit. That team, based in Jacksonville, produced multiple suspicious activity reports involving different entities that Mr. Trump owned or controlled, according to three former Deutsche Bank employees who saw the reports in an internal computer system.

Some of those reports involved Mr. Trump’s limited liability companies. At least one was related to transactions involving the Donald J. Trump Foundation, two employees said.

Deutsche Bank ultimately chose not to file those suspicious activity reports with the Treasury Department, either, according to three former employees. They said it was unusual for the bank to reject a series of reports involving the same high-profile client.
NYT

Just waiting for the Trump confirm-the-story-but-also-call-it-fake-news tweet. And maybe a 'joking' racial smear since the person most quoted in the article is POC.


I mean knowingly and intentionally doing business with Deutsche Bank, even if 100% legal, is still pretty despicable from my perspective (and always has been practically speaking). That Deutsche Bank continues to exist today is an indictment of capitalism imo.
This article on Trump's history with Deutsche bank really says everything that needs to be said about that bank. They were one of the only banks who would lend him money in the late 1990s, and continued to do so even after had defaulted on loans or bonds from them multiple times over the years and various divisions within the bank swore off ever dealing with him again. He would default, move on to a different division, butter up the people there with fancy trips or helicopter rides, get loaned more money, and then repeat the process. It took until 2016 for them to realize that one of their people was continually lending him vast amounts of money without much in terms of scrutiny even with his past of not paying them back and suing them.

On the campaign trail, rivals assailed Mr. Trump’s financial history. In response, he pointed to Deutsche Bank-funded successes like the Old Post Office project, now a gleaming hotel a few blocks from the White House.

In early 2016, Mr. Trump asked Ms. Vrablic for one final loan, for his golf course in Turnberry, Scotland.

Ms. Vrablic said yes, but a fight soon erupted.

Jacques Brand, who was in charge of Deutsche Bank’s American businesses, angrily objected, partly because of Mr. Trump’s divisive rhetoric.

Ms. Vrablic appealed the decision. Senior executives in Frankfurt, including Christian Sewing, who would become chief executive in 2018, were shocked that the private bank would consider lending Mr. Trump money during the campaign, bank officials said.

The bank’s reputational risk committee killed the transaction in March 2016.

That same month, as The Times was preparing an article about Mr. Trump’s excommunication from Wall Street, he cited his warm relationship with Deutsche Bank.

“They are totally happy with me,” he said to The Times. “Why don’t you call the head of Deutsche Bank? Her name is Rosemary Vrablic. She is the boss.”
It seems like they realized they had messed up pretty badly in their dealings with Trump, but did everything possible not to draw attention to themselves, which reporting suspicious transactions between Trump and Russians would definitely not have helped, so they tried their best to cover up all the issues. There's also been a lot of suspicion brought up of the division of Deutsche Bank that Trump had most recently been dealing with because they tend to deal with incredibly wealthy people, including a lot of fairly rich Russians, and they likely didn't want to endanger that relationship.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-19 21:33:43
May 19 2019 21:01 GMT
#29359
Why is Kushner sending money to Russia? Lol it's just mind blowing how corrupt Trump and his family are. Completely unprecedented in American politics I'd wager, at least in terms of how brazen they are. It also is astonishing how many people and businesses are putting themselves on the line to protect him.

This also adds another wrinkle to the conspiracies surrounding Kennedys son, who worked on loans related to Trump at Deutsche Bank, and Kennedy stepping down. While I dont endorse the conspiracies since there isnt enough evidence, they would argue that Trump promised to protect Kennedys son from investigation or something like that. Now THAT would be the biggest scandal ever if something was found there.

Keep the subpoenas rolling out Congress.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 19 2019 21:08 GMT
#29360
--- Nuked ---
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