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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 126

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45182 Posts
April 18 2018 11:25 GMT
#2501
Fox News Legal Analyst: Hannity ‘Can’t Have It Both Ways’ on Michael Cohen
Judge Andrew Napolitano shot down the notion that Hannity can both claim not to be Cohen’s client and retain attorney-client privilege.

It didn’t seem as though Outnumbered Overtime host Harris Faulkner particularly wanted to talk about Sean Hannity during her discussion with Fox News’ senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano about Donald Trump lawyer Michael Cohen on Tuesday afternoon, but that’s what happened.

“Why did we need to know the names of the other clients?” Faulkner asked Napolitano, who explained that Cohen’s lawyer was trying to prove to the court in a hearing on Monday that he had clients besides President Trump. This, of course, led to the “dramatic reveal” that his previously unnamed third client was Hannity.

When Faulkner pointed out that Hannity claims he has never been “represented” by Cohen but still thinks he’s entitled to “attorney-client privilege,” Napolitano offered up some rare criticism of his longtime colleague.

“I love him. I’ve worked with him for 20 years. He can’t have it both ways,” Napolitano said. “If he was a client, then his confidential communications to Mr. Cohen are privileged. If Mr. Cohen was never his lawyer, then nothing that he said to Mr. Cohen is privileged.”

On his radio show Monday, Hannity admitted that he “might have handed” Cohen $10 and said something like, “I definitely want your attorney-client privilege on this.” But Napolitano was quick to bust the “myth” that you can hand someone any legal tender and establish attorney-client privilege—as Walter White famously did with Saul Goodman on Breaking Bad.

“The attorney-client privilege requires a formal relationship reduced to writing for a specific legal purpose,” he said.

“So anything that is there regarding Sean Hannity can be revealed?” Faulker asked.

“In my view, yes,” Napolitano replied.

His comments marked at least the second time Hannity’s actions have been denounced on Fox News’ air over the past two days. On Monday night, Trump-supporting lawyer Alan Dershowitz told Hannity to his face that he should have disclosed his relationship with Cohen. “You could’ve said just that you asked him for advice or whatever, but I think it would’ve been much, much better if you had disclosed it,” Dershowitz told the host.

Earlier in the day, Fox News released its first official statement about the relationship between Hannity and Cohen. A representative from the network said it was “unaware” of the situation and “surprised” by the revelation, but also that Hannity has Fox’s “full support.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-legal-analyst-hannity-cant-have-it-both-ways-on-michael-cohen?via=desktop&source=Reddit

I doubt that Fox News will do anything about rectifying Sean Hannity's obvious conflict of interest with reporting on Michael Cohen, especially since the network didn't even pause when Hannity had been accused of sexual allegations last year and the year before that. His ratings are too high and has too large an audience, I suppose, although it's kind of nice to at least see Napolitano say out loud that Hannity can't have it both ways when it comes to being (or not being) a client and not having (or having) attorney-client privilege.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
April 18 2018 11:35 GMT
#2502
On April 18 2018 13:36 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:




Pompeo nomination seems to be in trouble.

No need for nomination, you just start doing the job anyway

Neosteel Enthusiast
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
April 18 2018 12:02 GMT
#2503
Isn't one of the propositions for NK is that the U.S leave the Korean Peninsula? I can't recall right now, but I thought it was part of the deal they had from the armistice. If that's the case, wouldn't that mean leaving SK up for grabs?
Life?
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
April 18 2018 12:22 GMT
#2504
On April 18 2018 21:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Isn't one of the propositions for NK is that the U.S leave the Korean Peninsula? I can't recall right now, but I thought it was part of the deal they had from the armistice. If that's the case, wouldn't that mean leaving SK up for grabs?


Wait, what? Really? When was this put down?
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 18 2018 12:31 GMT
#2505
On April 18 2018 21:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Isn't one of the propositions for NK is that the U.S leave the Korean Peninsula? I can't recall right now, but I thought it was part of the deal they had from the armistice. If that's the case, wouldn't that mean leaving SK up for grabs?

Yes, that has been NK position for decades. South Korea did not agree and neither did the US. South Korea did/does not feel it could stop a China backed NK if they decided to unify the country.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
April 18 2018 12:38 GMT
#2506
On April 18 2018 21:22 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2018 21:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Isn't one of the propositions for NK is that the U.S leave the Korean Peninsula? I can't recall right now, but I thought it was part of the deal they had from the armistice. If that's the case, wouldn't that mean leaving SK up for grabs?


Wait, what? Really? When was this put down?


Since always, that's what deescalation and denuclearisation has always meant to North Korea. As the US nuclear umbrella covers South Korea and Japan, the only way for denuclearisation to occur is if the United States pulls out of the region militarily. That's why everyone never takes North Korea's attempts for peace particularly seriously because those terms are normally complete non-starters.

Normally the terms are complete non-starters but Donald Trump doesn't really give a shit about US interests and he needs to find something that will show the world just how much of a winner he is.

The sort of side effect of doing this is that it justifies North Korea's belligerent approach and makes Iran look awfully vulnerable and silly.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 18 2018 13:00 GMT
#2507
Rejecting Pompeo also kills two birds with one stone. If he can’t become SoS, he goes back to being head of the CIA and the Senate doesn’t have to consider Mrs. “I used to run a black site” as the new head of the CIA.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45182 Posts
April 18 2018 13:05 GMT
#2508
Justice Gorsuch Joins Supreme Court’s Liberals to Strike Down Deportation Law

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Tuesday struck down a law that allowed the government to deport some immigrants who commit serious crimes, saying it was unconstitutionally vague. The decision will limit the Trump administration’s efforts to deport people convicted of some kinds of crimes.

The vote was 5 to 4, with Justice Neil M. Gorsuch joining the court’s four more liberal members to form a bare majority, which was a first. Justice Gorsuch wrote that the law crossed a constitutional line.

“Vague laws,” he wrote in a concurring opinion, “invite arbitrary power.”

Justice Gorsuch had voted with the court’s conservative majority in February in a different immigration case, one that ruled that people held in immigration detention, sometimes for years, are not entitled to periodic hearings to decide whether they may be released on bail.

His vote in Tuesday’s case was not entirely surprising, though, as he has a skepticism of vague laws that do not give people affected by them adequate notice of what they prohibit.

Immigration advocates said the ruling could spare thousands of people from deportation.

“This decision is of enormous consequence, striking down a flawed law that applies in a vast range of criminal and immigration cases and which has resulted in many thousands of immigrants being deported for decades in violation of their due process rights,” said E. Joshua Rosenkranz, a lawyer for the immigrant at the center of the case.

Tyler Q. Houlton, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security, said the ruling would undercut “efforts to remove aliens convicted of certain violent crimes, including sexual assault, kidnapping and burglary, from the United States.”

“By preventing the federal government from removing known criminal aliens,” he said, “it allows our nation to be a safe haven for criminals and makes us more vulnerable as a result.”

The case, Sessions v. Dimaya, No. 15-1498, was first argued in January 2017 before an eight-member court left short-handed by the death of Justice Antonin Scalia. The justices deadlocked 4 to 4, and the case was reargued in October after Justice Gorsuch joined the court.

The case concerned James Dimaya, a native of the Philippines who became a lawful permanent resident in 1992, when he was 13. In 2007 and 2009, he was convicted of residential burglary.

The government sought to deport him on the theory that he had committed an “aggravated felony,” which the immigration law defined to include any offense “that, by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.”

In 2015, in Johnson v. United States, the Supreme Court ruled that a similar criminal law was unconstitutionally vague. Justice Elena Kagan, writing for the majority in Tuesday’s case, said the reasoning in the Johnson case also doomed the challenged provision of the immigration law.

She quoted at length from Justice Scalia’s majority opinion in Johnson, which said courts could not tell which crimes Congress had meant to punish.

“We can as well repeat here what we asked in Johnson,” Justice Kagan wrote, paraphrasing Justice Scalia. “How does one go about divining the conduct entailed in a crime’s ordinary case? Statistical analyses? Surveys? Experts? Google? Gut instinct?”

She added that lower courts had been unable to apply the immigration law consistently.

“Does car burglary qualify as a violent felony?” she asked. “Some courts say yes, another says no. What of statutory rape? Once again, the circuits part ways. How about evading arrest? The decisions point in different directions. Residential trespass? The same is true.”

Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen G. Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor joined all of Justice Kagan’s opinion, and Justice Gorsuch most of it.

When the Johnson case was before the Supreme Court, the government warned that a ruling striking down the law at issue there would make the immigration law “equally susceptible” to constitutional attack.

Both laws, the government said then, required courts to identify features of a hypothetical typical offense and then to judge the risk of violence arising from them.

But when Mr. Dimaya’s case reached the Supreme Court, the government said there were significant differences between the two laws, focusing on minor variations in their wording. In dissent, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., joined by Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr., made a similar point.

Justice Kagan responded that some of Chief Justice Roberts’s analysis was “slicing the baloney mighty thin.”

The government also argued that the two laws should be treated differently because one concerned crimes and the other immigration, which is a civil matter.

In its brief, the government said civil laws are almost never so vague as to violate the Constitution. “Although the court has on occasion tested civil provisions for vagueness,” the brief said, “it has struck down those provisions under the due process clause because they were so unintelligible as to effectively supply no standard at all.”

Justice Kagan disagreed. “This court’s precedent forecloses that argument,” she wrote, “because we long ago held that the most exacting vagueness standard should apply in removal cases.”

A 1951 Supreme Court decision, Jordan v. De George, indicated that both criminal and immigration laws should be tested against the same constitutional standard for vagueness “in view of the grave nature of deportation.”

Near the end of her opinion, Justice Kagan again quoted Justice Scalia. “Insanity,” he wrote in a 2011 dissent, “is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

Justice Kagan said it was time to heed that advice. “We abandoned that lunatic practice in Johnson,” she wrote, “and see no reason to start it again.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/us/politics/supreme-court-deportations-trump.html

Well I'll be damned. Gorsuch broke the tie in favor of the more left-leaning judges on this case, not because of partisan favoritism (obviously), but because the law was "unconstitutionally" vague, specifically with regards to the consistency of applying certain rules to certain crimes as metrics for deportation.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-18 13:40:06
April 18 2018 13:37 GMT
#2509
On April 18 2018 21:38 Womwomwom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2018 21:22 iamthedave wrote:
On April 18 2018 21:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Isn't one of the propositions for NK is that the U.S leave the Korean Peninsula? I can't recall right now, but I thought it was part of the deal they had from the armistice. If that's the case, wouldn't that mean leaving SK up for grabs?


Wait, what? Really? When was this put down?


Since always, that's what deescalation and denuclearisation has always meant to North Korea. As the US nuclear umbrella covers South Korea and Japan, the only way for denuclearisation to occur is if the United States pulls out of the region militarily. That's why everyone never takes North Korea's attempts for peace particularly seriously because those terms are normally complete non-starters.

Normally the terms are complete non-starters but Donald Trump doesn't really give a shit about US interests and he needs to find something that will show the world just how much of a winner he is.

The sort of side effect of doing this is that it justifies North Korea's belligerent approach and makes Iran look awfully vulnerable and silly.


I mean, Trump does more than just not give a shit here, he directly campaigned for eliminating international treaties regarding Japan and South Korea unless we extort them for money. As directly as someone who doesn't know that we have international treaties with them can, anyway.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-18 13:46:37
April 18 2018 13:44 GMT
#2510
Hmm, that law does sound rather vague indeed; and it'd be very easy for a responsible congress to make the law clear enough that it isn't vague anymore, which makes the government's listed arguments unpersuasive to me.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
April 18 2018 15:27 GMT
#2511
I just wanted to say if I am ever president, I will spare no expense trying to recruit zlefin to be my press secretary. I would love to watch him pull apart people's ideas/questions on TV. "No, actually, that question does not make sense and only highlights the current issues facing our country. Next question."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 18 2018 15:54 GMT
#2512
On April 19 2018 00:27 Mohdoo wrote:
I just wanted to say if I am ever president, I will spare no expense trying to recruit zlefin to be my press secretary. I would love to watch him pull apart people's ideas/questions on TV. "No, actually, that question does not make sense and only highlights the current issues facing our country. Next question."

I don't do well on tv; (probably not for live at least, due to anxiety issues).
is there any particular idea/question you'd like to see pulled apart?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
April 18 2018 15:56 GMT
#2513
On April 19 2018 00:54 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2018 00:27 Mohdoo wrote:
I just wanted to say if I am ever president, I will spare no expense trying to recruit zlefin to be my press secretary. I would love to watch him pull apart people's ideas/questions on TV. "No, actually, that question does not make sense and only highlights the current issues facing our country. Next question."

I don't do well on tv; (probably not for live at least, due to anxiety issues).
is there any particular idea/question you'd like to see pulled apart?

Not really. I'd just enjoy seeing your communication style applied to the bullshit we see nowadays.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9010 Posts
April 18 2018 16:05 GMT
#2514
I'd also vote for P6 just to see if he speaks with typos like his posts here.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 18 2018 16:09 GMT
#2515
On April 19 2018 01:05 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I'd also vote for P6 just to see if he speaks with typos like his posts here.

Nope. I’m reasonably articulate when I speak, but I talk very fast. My typos are a result combo of poor proofreading and dyslexia.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18843 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-18 16:13:00
April 18 2018 16:12 GMT
#2516
I also get the impression that p6 pulls out his phone at random points during the day to furiously phone-type responses, errors and all.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-18 16:16:42
April 18 2018 16:15 GMT
#2517
On April 19 2018 00:56 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2018 00:54 zlefin wrote:
On April 19 2018 00:27 Mohdoo wrote:
I just wanted to say if I am ever president, I will spare no expense trying to recruit zlefin to be my press secretary. I would love to watch him pull apart people's ideas/questions on TV. "No, actually, that question does not make sense and only highlights the current issues facing our country. Next question."

I don't do well on tv; (probably not for live at least, due to anxiety issues).
is there any particular idea/question you'd like to see pulled apart?

Not really. I'd just enjoy seeing your communication style applied to the bullshit we see nowadays.


I can't help but feel that sort of press secretary would be really popular with the press pool, and probably get them to ask better questions in general (at least, their bosses would start insisting they do prep work rather than have them and by extension their organisation look like idiots on TV).

Certainly better than "To be honest, I think it's offensive that you expect any kind of logic or clear answers from this administration. We all really think you should know better by now."
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-18 16:20:16
April 18 2018 16:18 GMT
#2518
Didn't Bannons movement start from World of Warcraft or something? Nothing is holding us back doing the Starcraft version of MAGA. Mohdoo 2020!
Neosteel Enthusiast
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 18 2018 16:23 GMT
#2519
On April 19 2018 01:12 farvacola wrote:
I also get the impression that p6 pulls out his phone at random points during the day to furiously phone-type responses, errors and all.

When ICP and some free speech/proud boys are having rival gatherings in DC, you gotta bring news to the thread.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
April 18 2018 16:26 GMT
#2520
On April 19 2018 01:18 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Didn't Bannons movement start from World of Warcraft or something? Nothing is holding us back doing the Starcraft version of MAGA. Mohdoo 2020!


My first action would be declaring all Dragon Ball arc conclusions national holidays and direct national guard funding towards public showings like in Brazil.
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