EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 121
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
farvacola
United States18858 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28804 Posts
On April 16 2018 20:05 semantics wrote: Just depends what you do with it, most people don't work in the specific area their degree covers. Degrees are often just used as a way to negotiate your starting pay before you get any experience, they also help you get interviews. It's a show of discipline and commitment, kinda at the end of the day you sell yourself. I just don't really look at it that way. How much you are paid is not a reflection of how valuable your work is, those are at best sparsely correlated. I think if you're talking about how 'valuable' someone's work is, it becomes more a question of in what way that work improves the lives of other people. I am also of the opinion that in Norway, we don't need increased economic output. I'm inclined to argue that wasteful consumption is a bigger problem than people not having enough stuff - and I see this is a consequence of our wealth. For me, how Norwegian society would best improve would be through people working less and spending more time appreciating various forms of culture - the person with the art degree is normally going to be instrumental in making various forms of culture accessible to the wider public. I mean obviously doctors are still immensely valuable, but not all stem degrees are doctors. Also it's not really a battle - I'm not saying engineers don't bring a valuable contribution to our society. Mostly just arguing that I'm negative towards the negative attitude towards art degrees. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And education isn’t just about having a marketable skill. It is about having the tools navigate the world outside of your profession. We also vote, raise children and are part of our local governments/communities. And all of that cannot be taught in high school. On April 16 2018 22:18 farvacola wrote: Similarly, I can personally attest to how useful my English degree was/is in my work as a lawyer, though given the wide variety in the field in terms of litigation, written advocacy, document review, and the like, there'll be some disparities there (many lawyers write very little). Most of the attorneys I have worked for have been reasonable writers, but terrible at translating their legal advice into language their clients can easily understand. | ||
|
Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
On April 16 2018 22:18 farvacola wrote: Similarly, I can personally attest to how useful my English degree was/is in my work as a lawyer, though given the wide variety in the field in terms of litigation, written advocacy, document review, and the like, there'll be some disparities there (many lawyers write very little). Most of the attorneys I have worked for have been reasonable writers, but terrible at translating their legal advice into language their clients can easily understand. The same is very true of physicians in the US. | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On April 16 2018 22:25 Plansix wrote: I would not have done as well in my profession without my background in teaching and, by extension, history. Even though I don’t use them directly beyond training new employees, the communication skills I gained are critical in doing my job well. And education isn’t just about having a marketable skill. It is about having the tools navigate the world outside of your profession. We also vote, raise children and are part of our local governments/communities. And all of that cannot be taught in high school. Most of the attorneys I have worked for have been reasonable writers, but terrible at translating their legal advice into language their clients can easily understand. to be fair, explaining stuff to a layperson for any sort of work can be challenging. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 16 2018 23:28 ticklishmusic wrote: to be fair, explaining stuff to a layperson for any sort of work can be challenging. I completely agree, which is why I consider strong communication to be a chronically undervalued skill set. I don’t care if you are in law, tech or construction, there is immense value having someone who understand and can convey complex information to an audience that is not steeped in those specific nuances. | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland12466 Posts
On April 16 2018 09:24 bo1b wrote: Why does the U.S need to move to a radical left perspective? What nations have ever thrived under such a thing? More over, why should the U.S shake up it's culture in such an enormous way? Because what the US calls "radical left" isn't radical at all. And the nations that have thrived under such a thing are virtually any other nation in the first world. It would also create some room for the rightwing party to take, which is also good. It's not healthy that in order to be rightwing in the US you have to be so extreme. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 17 2018 00:37 ticklishmusic wrote: i don't like the idea of biden 2020 at all, but i think one of the things he could walk the line there between pro business and pro union interests pretty well. For sure. I have plenty of problems with a Biden run, including his age and his vote on the Iraq war. There are plenty more substantial things to critique about him. | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11859 Posts
On April 16 2018 23:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote: You try that, and then you get slandered for being too simplistic :D I can also see how you would be very careful with simplifying your language if you are in a position that would make you liable if an action someone took as a result of what you said turned out to have bad results, like as a doctor or a lawyer. In that situation, it is possibly rational to still use the careful and exact terminology of the trade, even if the client doesn't understand a word of it, just to protect yourself. | ||
|
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On April 17 2018 00:43 Simberto wrote: I can also see how you would be very careful with simplifying your language if you are in a position that would make you liable if an action someone took as a result of what you said turned out to have bad results, like as a doctor or a lawyer. In that situation, it is possibly rational to still use the careful and exact terminology of the trade, even if the client doesn't understand a word of it, just to protect yourself. there's also requirements that the regular person understand what's going on (or at least claim they do, and kinda get it, or something); informed consent is a big thing in medicine. not sure about law, but there's probably something similar. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 17 2018 00:43 Simberto wrote: I can also see how you would be very careful with simplifying your language if you are in a position that would make you liable if an action someone took as a result of what you said turned out to have bad results, like as a doctor or a lawyer. In that situation, it is possibly rational to still use the careful and exact terminology of the trade, even if the client doesn't understand a word of it, just to protect yourself. The key is that you provide them with both the complex, fully fleshed out version and a simplified break down with key points you think they will care about. It also helps to ask what features the client is looking for. We have plenty of clients that are very interested taking the conservative route to avoid liability, but hate protracted cases that are open a year or longer. Those two things are directly opposed to each other, so we always provide the most conservative, aka longest time frame. Also, I don’t providing the full, terminology filled explanation is the best way to avoid potential liability. They are just as likely to bring a malpractice action because the doctor/attorney was unwilling to frame their advice in terms the client/patient could easily understand. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18301 Posts
On April 17 2018 01:09 Plansix wrote: The key is that you provide them with both the complex, fully fleshed out version and a simplified break down with key points you think they will care about. It also helps to ask what features the client is looking for. We have plenty of clients that are very interested taking the conservative route to avoid liability, but hate protracted cases that are open a year or longer. Those two things are directly opposed to each other, so we always provide the most conservative, aka longest time frame. Also, I don’t providing the full, terminology filled explanation is the best way to avoid potential liability. They are just as likely to bring a malpractice action because the doctor/attorney was unwilling to frame their advice in terms the client/patient could easily understand. Lets face it, most people are simply bad communicators, probably moreso in writing than spoken word. Strunks "Elements of Style" should be mandatory for anybody who has to write texts longer than an email for a living and explain something complex (not even necessarily to non-experts, many scientific articles I read are needlessly obtuse). Just because the concept is complex doesn't mean your language use has match it (or worse still, be intentionally fluffy). And yes, I know, my own prose is nothing to write home about. Writing well is hard. | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
One thing I like is that most law schools teach a class on legal writing, which ensures some level of sanity in their documents. But when I read a legal doc and the lawyer felt the need to use 'know all by these presents' I want to scream. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 17 2018 01:53 Acrofales wrote: Lets face it, most people are simply bad communicators, probably moreso in writing than spoken word. Strunks "Elements of Style" should be mandatory for anybody who has to write texts longer than an email for a living and explain something complex (not even necessarily to non-experts, many scientific articles I read are needlessly obtuse). Just because the concept is complex doesn't mean your language use has match it (or worse still, be intentionally fluffy). And yes, I know, my own prose is nothing to write home about. Writing well is hard. "There is no such thing as good writing, only good rewriting." - a quote from someone that is so commonly used that Google couldn't quickly provide me the origin. On a side note: Desiree Linden is the first American to win the Boston Marathon since 1985. Which is super as impressive since it was dumping hail and freezing rain on the runners this morning. | ||
| ||
