EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1156
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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brian
United States9639 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 27 2019 05:08 xDaunt wrote: You mean like this? I'm plenty direct. It's not my fault that most posters either fail to pay attention or simply ascribe some retarded leftist cliche to my positions. You can be pretty direct. Or you can be incredibly evasive. Remember that time me and Green Horizons asked you to explain how the border wall - which you vociferously support - would actually do the things you claim it'll do and you simply never answered the question? And continued to not do so for about four days? As for this issue, you're still framing it in terms of 'things Democrats believe' not 'things Republicans have convinced people Democrats believe' and it's very much the latter, not the former. Your side of the aisle loves to scream baby murder and do everything possible to make abortions of any sort difficult. Your Vice President literally stated that he believes all abortion will be illegal in America within his lifetime. The pro life movement in America is way more fundamentalist and intense than the pro choice movement. You've had multiple cases of domestic terrorism related to bombing abortion clinics or attacking doctors. Then there's the ones who picket and protest outside the clinics that are in operation and harass women who visit them. Yet the pro choice posters in this thread don't assume all pro lifers believe that doctors should be murdered, abortion clinics bombed, and women who get abortions harassed and tormented. It would probably help the discussion if you extended the same understanding. Yes, a couple of Democrats said some things that got airplay that got people riled up. No the main Democratic establishment doesn't agree with those things (obviously). Yes, the Republican establishment has done a great job publicising these comments and spinning them into the idea that all Democrats support these things. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On February 27 2019 07:46 Nouar wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a sitting Rep congressman in the Judiciary Committee. I don't really know what to add, the tweet speaks by itself, and that's on the day of Cohen's closed-door testimony, and the eve of his public testimony. It's just disgusting, not even veiled witness intimidation... This is gonna make for some great TV. Cohen is coming with a bucket of all the mud he's got, and hes gonna empty the whole thing. Timed on the day of the Kim Jong Un summit, for maximum destruction. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 27 2019 08:44 iamthedave wrote: You can be pretty direct. Or you can be incredibly evasive. Remember that time me and Green Horizons asked you to explain how the border wall - which you vociferously support - would actually do the things you claim it'll do and you simply never answered the question? And continued to not do so for about four days? Sigh, yet another a case of wildly selective reading of my posts. I most certainly did answer it. I stated that the wall was a necessary part of an integrated border solution. GH tried to shit up the argument by implying that the wall had nothing to do with securing points of entry. As for this issue, you're still framing it in terms of 'things Democrats believe' not 'things Republicans have convinced people Democrats believe' and it's very much the latter, not the former. Your side of the aisle loves to scream baby murder and do everything possible to make abortions of any sort difficult. See, this is yet another example of someone not paying to attention to what I'm actually posting. I merely pointed out that there seemed to be massive public opinion shift towards pro-life policies and hypothesized that the NY bill and Northram's idiotic radio interview might be the causes. I didn't frame anything other than point out the obvious that Democrat politicians might be pushing abortion policies that are outside of the American mainstream. All of this above that you are ascribing to me is literally shit that you're making up and imagining. Accordingly, the rest of your post quoted below is not responsive to anything that I have posted. When I say that I am not inclined to respond to shit that is completely tangential to my actual points, this is exactly the type of stuff that I'm talking about. Your Vice President literally stated that he believes all abortion will be illegal in America within his lifetime. The pro life movement in America is way more fundamentalist and intense than the pro choice movement. You've had multiple cases of domestic terrorism related to bombing abortion clinics or attacking doctors. Then there's the ones who picket and protest outside the clinics that are in operation and harass women who visit them. Yet the pro choice posters in this thread don't assume all pro lifers believe that doctors should be murdered, abortion clinics bombed, and women who get abortions harassed and tormented. It would probably help the discussion if you extended the same understanding. Yes, a couple of Democrats said some things that got airplay that got people riled up. No the main Democratic establishment doesn't agree with those things (obviously). Yes, the Republican establishment has done a great job publicising these comments and spinning them into the idea that all Democrats support these things. The reason that I'm not particularly interested in diving into the abortion debate is because the pro-life position is fundamentally rooted in morality. Abortion is evil. Period. There really isn't much to discuss beyond that. Either that premise is accepted or it's not. It's not good grounds for any kind of reasonable debate, which should be patently obvious from how nasty this one political issue has been in US politics over the past half century. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
The reason that I'm not particularly interested in diving into the abortion debate is because the pro-life position is fundamentally rooted in morality. Abortion is evil. Period. There really isn't much to discuss beyond that. Either that premise is accepted or it's not. It's not good grounds for any kind of reasonable debate, which should be patently obvious from how nasty this one political issue has been in US politics over the past half century. I mean... that's not true though. Would you consider it evil to perform an abortion if it meant saving the life of the mother? Let's say that the baby is 100% going to die, and giving birth is 100% going to kill the mother, is it evil to perform the abortion in this case? | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 27 2019 09:10 xDaunt wrote: Sigh, yet another a case of wildly selective reading of my posts. I most certainly did answer it. I stated that the wall was a necessary part of an integrated border solution. GH tried to shit up the argument by implying that the wall had nothing to do with securing points of entry. See, this is yet another example of someone not paying to attention to what I'm actually posting. I merely pointed out that there seemed to be massive public opinion shift towards pro-life policies and hypothesized that the NY bill and Northram's idiotic radio interview might be the causes. I didn't frame anything other than point out the obvious that Democrat politicians might be pushing abortion policies that are outside of the American mainstream. All of this above that you are ascribing to me is literally shit that you're making up and imagining. Accordingly, the rest of your post quoted below is not responsive to anything that I have posted. When I say that I am not inclined to respond to shit that is completely tangential to my actual points, this is exactly the type of stuff that I'm talking about. The reason that I'm not particularly interested in diving into the abortion debate is because the pro-life position is fundamentally rooted in morality. Abortion is evil. Period. There really isn't much to discuss beyond that. Either that premise is accepted or it's not. It's not good grounds for any kind of reasonable debate, which should be patently obvious from how nasty this one political issue has been in US politics over the past half century. No, abortion isn't evil. Period. To claim that it is requires a staggering lack of understanding of the issue or a childishly simplistic outlook rooted entirely in religion. The pro-choice position is fundamentally rooted in morality too, and denial of that is straight up ignorance. But yes, the fact that the religious right is unable to recognise any validity in the other side of the debate does make it pretty hard to achieve any kind of civility on the matter. Just one of the ways America's a bit backwards. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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KwarK
United States43818 Posts
On February 27 2019 09:54 xDaunt wrote: I said I was generally pro-life, so yes, I believe that abortion is evil. There is no condition in which it is not evil, regardless of the net social utility of a given abortion or its desirability for policy reasons. What about the ones where the fetus has already died? Still evil? Because those are still illegal in a lot of places, forcing the grieving mothers to carry it until they expel it naturally. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 27 2019 10:17 JimmiC wrote: Good point once you realize someone is a fundamentalist and does not understand that complex issues have grey's and are not black and white it is best to just move on. I fully understand the “complex issues.” From my perspective, they are simply irrelevant to the ultimate question of the morality of the act. The abortion debate is fundamentally a question of conflicting moral codes and to what extent abortions should be allowed anyway despite their potentially evil nature. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On February 27 2019 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I fully understand the “complex issues.” They are simply irrelevant to the ultimate question of the morality of the act. The abortion debate is fundamentally a question of conflicting moral codes and to what extent abortions should be allowed anyway despite their potentially evil nature. I thought you just said they were evil in a very definitive way. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 27 2019 10:27 Gahlo wrote: I thought you just said they were evil in a very definitive way. I was acknowledging that others disagree with me based upon their own moral codes. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On February 27 2019 09:02 Doodsmack wrote: This is gonna make for some great TV. Cohen is coming with a bucket of all the mud he's got, and hes gonna empty the whole thing. Timed on the day of the Kim Jong Un summit, for maximum destruction. Cohen's written testimony is hot off the presses. In July 2016, days before the Democratic convention, I was in Mr. Trump’s office when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the phone. Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speakerphone. Mr. Stone told Mr. Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that, within a couple of days, there would be a massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect of “wouldn’t that be great.” Sometime in the summer of 2017, I read all over the media that there had been a meeting in Trump Tower in June 2016 involving Don Jr. and others from the campaign with Russians, including a representative of the Russian government, and an email setting up the meeting with the subject line, “Dirt on Hillary Clinton.” Something clicked in my mind. I remember being in the room with Mr. Trump, probably in early June 2016, when something peculiar happened. Don Jr. came into the room and walked behind his father’s desk – which in itself was unusual. People didn’t just walk behind Mr. Trump’s desk to talk to him. I recalled Don Jr. leaning over to his father and speaking in a low voice, which I could clearly hear, and saying: “The meeting is all set.” I remember Mr. Trump saying, “Ok good…let me know.” Big oof. | ||
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