EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 110
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9064 Posts
On April 13 2018 04:12 Excludos wrote: https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-trolls-denied-syrian-gas-attackbefore-it-happened So title/url pretty much sums up the story here. The gas attack was denied before it even happened (or at least before anyone knew about it). I mean it's not like we need additional evidence that Russian government controlled trolls is a thing, but if anyone is still in doubt; There you go. We desperately need to regulate social media outlets to stop this. It's easy for us here to laugh at the stupidity, but people do believe these trolls just because of the fact that anything repeated enough times suddenly sounds really true. edit: For anyone wondering, the trolls in this story operated on Youtube and Twitter. edit2: I feel like we should find a new word for these guys. Trolls generally aren't controller by a government, and they generally don't try to massively influence people of another country with propaganda. Trolls generally just want to make other's angry for fun, what these guys are doing is something else completely. The word you're looking for are state-sponsored provocateurs, I believe. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11969 Posts
On April 13 2018 04:15 ticklishmusic wrote: I mean, it's almost like a multilateral trade agreement with most of East Asia was the best way to curb Chinese influence and support American interests instead of getting into a shitty trade war. Yes, but it was not Trumps idea, but that of the bad black man who made fun of him. Thus it is a bad idea. Trump has the best brain, and thus he also has the bestest ideas. This is the big problem you have when you think you are way smarter than anyone else, and also form your opinions within seconds of hearing about a topic. Usually this problem is associated with teenagers, but apparently if you are born into enough money, you can sustain that attitude until you should be retired. If a teenage bully never meets someone that they can't bully, they will grow up to believe that bullying is the way to get shit done everywhere, and the only people who don't realize that are weak nerds. And thus you get a president who is completely overwhelmed by the fact that suddenly bullying doesn't work anymore, and who doesn't have a fallback plan. Maybe don't elect a person that talks like a highschool bully next time. That greatly reduces the chance of your president acting like one. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 13 2018 04:15 ticklishmusic wrote: I mean, it's almost like a multilateral trade agreement with most of East Asia was the best way to curb Chinese influence and support American interests instead of getting into a shitty trade war. Unfortunately, populism basically assumes popular opinion is mostly an accurate portrayal of the world. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
The raid on Cohen “significantly complicated” any negotiations for the president’s legal team, according to a person familiar with the discussions, who also cautioned that “you never say never” in terms of a possible interview. This person said the president’s legal team is still in frequent contact with Mueller’s team on other issues related to the investigation. The president’s lawyers declined to comment for this report. Three sources familiar with the investigation said the findings Mueller has collected on Trump’s attempts to obstruct justice include: His intent for firing former FBI Director James Comey; his role in the crafting of a misleading public statement on the nature of a June 2016 Trump Tower meeting between his son and Russians; Trump’s dangling of pardons before grand jury witnesses who might testify against him; and pressuring Attorney General Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from the Russia investigation For all the crying and hand-wringing about the DoJ, they haven't actually done anything thus far except indict a few close to Trump. But that seems to be about to change. If the DoJ has any serious objections or accusations against the Trump campaign or Presidency, it's hopefully about to be laid out. Trump will not agree to a proper interview on the matter. He will have to be made to. But before that happens, I think the OSC and DoJ are going to lay out what their general beliefs and findings are, to compel Trump to testify. Or, if there is already strong evidence of wrongdoing (how unlikely is that?), it may seek to compel Congress to impeach. People scoff at this GOP Congress impeaching, but as I said, the DoJ has actually been very reserved and silent. An outright condemnation, with evidence of wrongdoing, this close to elections, will put the screws in whatever is left of this dumpster-fire of a political-party. If the case is strong, they might just not have a choice. Or the elections will be around the corner, and it won't matter. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell's era of hyper-hypocrisy and hyper-partisanship can die a fiery death. They'll act like victims on the way out, having thoroughly ransacked and denigrated the country while enabling a treasonous, flagrantly-racist President. The absolute two-faced shamelessness those two have brought into our culture ought to be treason in itself. McConnell has repeatedly lied about his part in all this Trump shit. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/denis-mcdonough-mcconnell-watered-down-russia-warning-2016-n853016 All these fuckers ever cared about was their own bullshit. Nothing is sacred or ever mattered to them, except "beating the libs". Fucking cultists. Partisan-cooperation can exist when you remove the fucking snakes from your party. And that's pretty much the whole GOP, so I'm done caring about it. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
the dangling pardons thing seems... bad. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On April 13 2018 04:54 Simberto wrote: Yes, but it was not Trumps idea, but that of the bad black man who made fun of him. Thus it is a bad idea. Trump has the best brain, and thus he also has the bestest ideas. This is the big problem you have when you think you are way smarter than anyone else, and also form your opinions within seconds of hearing about a topic. Usually this problem is associated with teenagers, but apparently if you are born into enough money, you can sustain that attitude until you should be retired. If a teenage bully never meets someone that they can't bully, they will grow up to believe that bullying is the way to get shit done everywhere, and the only people who don't realize that are weak nerds. And thus you get a president who is completely overwhelmed by the fact that suddenly bullying doesn't work anymore, and who doesn't have a fallback plan. Maybe don't elect a person that talks like a highschool bully next time. That greatly reduces the chance of your president acting like one. This probably isn't the right location, but I find smug, self righteous post's like these entirely pointless, and more to the point, divisive. Probably how a German would feel if a genius from The Donald made an appearance to give his thoughts on Angela Merkel. More to the point, there were legitimate grievances with the TPP past populism, particularly in the international community. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/u-s-has-blood-samples-show-nerve-agent-syria-gas-n865431 In other news, just read that a blood sample confirms a nerve agent was used in Syria, with evidence though not "100% sure". What I don't understand is why the Syrian government would do this, at that stage, given what looks like a decisive victory in front of them? | ||
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:02 ticklishmusic wrote: edit: leporello already posted it the dangling pardons thing seems... bad. There would be no clearer case of using the office of the president to impend an investigation. My bet is that those offers somehow passed through Cohen's office. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 13 2018 05:55 Leporello wrote: https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/984524797769125889 For all the crying and hand-wringing about the DoJ, they haven't actually done anything thus far except indict a few close to Trump. But that seems to be about to change. If the DoJ has any serious objections or accusations against the Trump campaign or Presidency, it's hopefully about to be laid out. Trump will not agree to a proper interview on the matter. He will have to be made to. But before that happens, I think the OSC and DoJ are going to lay out what their general beliefs and findings are, to compel Trump to testify. Or, if there is already strong evidence of wrongdoing (how unlikely is that?), it may seek to compel Congress to impeach. People scoff at this GOP Congress impeaching, but as I said, the DoJ has actually been very reserved and silent. An outright condemnation, with evidence of wrongdoing, this close to elections, will put the screws in whatever is left of this dumpster-fire of a political-party. If the case is strong, they might just not have a choice. Or the elections will be around the corner, and it won't matter. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell's era of hyper-hypocrisy and hyper-partisanship can die a fiery death. They'll act like victims on the way out, having thoroughly ransacked and denigrated the country while enabling a treasonous, flagrantly-racist President. The absolute two-faced shamelessness those two have brought into our culture ought to be treason in itself. McConnell has repeatedly lied about his part in all this Trump shit. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/denis-mcdonough-mcconnell-watered-down-russia-warning-2016-n853016 All these fuckers ever cared about was their own bullshit. Nothing is sacred or ever mattered to them, except "beating the libs". Fucking cultists. Partisan-cooperation can exist when you remove the fucking snakes from your party. And that's pretty much the whole GOP, so I'm done caring about it. I can't help but smirk, seeing how all these private sector dumbfucks are getting body slammed by the strict standards of government. People who are used to having less rules to follow got cocky, assumed everyone is just worse than them, walked into public office and are getting absolutely pounded. From a bird's eye view, you can view this as a bunch of people playing a game they weren't remotely prepared for, after spending a great deal of time thinking it would be easier, not significantly harder. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:38 plasmidghost wrote: Are there any good ways of knowing when Mueller's investigation will be closed? That article said it could be wrapped up quickly (at least the obstruction part, which I assume means the investigations into Russian meddling and the Stormy Daniels hush money could continue) Not really, no. He will give a report to congress telling them what he found. But until that happens, he will continue to grind on. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:41 bo1b wrote: As an outsider looking in, is there a reason investigations like these aren't done for pretty much every president? Outside of cost? There needs to be cause. It is a criminal investigation. There was evidence that the Russians tried to contact Trump's team during the election, which the FBI was investigating. Trump fired the head of the FBI to stop the investigation and that is why the Justice Department appointed the special counsel to handle the investigation. Presidents normally take great pains to avoid any appearance of conflict, which includes their family. The first lady doesn't hold a job while in office, even if she was a professional before hand. Truman sold his family business to be president. We have never had anyone like Trump, who just treated the office like his own personal business, giving his kids jobs in the office and setting up meetings at Trump hotels. There was zero chance he was not going to break the law at some point, because he didn't understand the job he was applying for. He didn't understand that Obama's staff doesn't stay on the job after his term. That the President hires the entire White House staff. He didn't get it. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:41 bo1b wrote: As an outsider looking in, is there a reason investigations like these aren't done for pretty much every president? Outside of cost? I have asked this same question, and if I am remembering the responses correctly, there was once a time where "investigations" were used as a partisan tool to generally throw a wrench in the opposition's governing. I'm still not entirely satisfied by that answer. I still believe it should be possible to establish some sort of non-partisan office that has all the same teeth Mueller's investigation has, but is an ongoing, constantly researching branch. Instead of being told "go look into ____", they would be in a constant state of investigating all the major branches of government. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:48 Mohdoo wrote: I have asked this same question, and if I am remembering the responses correctly, there was once a time where "investigations" were used as a partisan tool to generally throw a wrench in the opposition's governing. I'm still not entirely satisfied by that answer. I still believe it should be possible to establish some sort of non-partisan office that has all the same teeth Mueller's investigation has, but is an ongoing, constantly researching branch. Instead of being told "go look into ____", they would be in a constant state of investigating all the major branches of government. This thing you describe figures as the proper way for the Judiciary to work imo, but that has been heavily reeled in by many decades of precedent that have made up rules for access to the federal courts and greatly limited the liability of government actors. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:48 Mohdoo wrote: I have asked this same question, and if I am remembering the responses correctly, there was once a time where "investigations" were used as a partisan tool to generally throw a wrench in the opposition's governing. I'm still not entirely satisfied by that answer. I still believe it should be possible to establish some sort of non-partisan office that has all the same teeth Mueller's investigation has, but is an ongoing, constantly researching branch. Instead of being told "go look into ____", they would be in a constant state of investigating all the major branches of government. You have it, it is call the White House/Congressional ethics office. Both branches have one. But if congress doesn't care about people breaking the rules, there isn't a lot that is going to change. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:54 Plansix wrote: You have it, it is call the White House/Congressional ethics office. Both branches have one. But if congress doesn't care about people breaking the rules, there isn't a lot that is going to change. If you are saying the existing solution is a fucked up mess, I am saying we should establish something with my description being the entire and only purpose of whatever it is that is made. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22559 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:33 bo1b wrote: I agree that people had legitimate grievances with the TPP. This probably isn't the right location, but I find smug, self righteous post's like these entirely pointless, and more to the point, divisive. Probably how a German would feel if a genius from The Donald made an appearance to give his thoughts on Angela Merkel. More to the point, there were legitimate grievances with the TPP past populism, particularly in the international community. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/u-s-has-blood-samples-show-nerve-agent-syria-gas-n865431 In other news, just read that a blood sample confirms a nerve agent was used in Syria, with evidence though not "100% sure". What I don't understand is why the Syrian government would do this, at that stage, given what looks like a decisive victory in front of them? The problem was that Trump threw it in the trashcan instead of seeing it for what it is, an attempt to bind Asia (- China) to the US and use that to get China to co-operate. If it has issues try to work those issues out. And attempt to re-invigorate the idea is going to run into a lot of problems now. You can't just axe a trade negotiation and then expect to continue where you left off 2 years later. I don't see a way Trump can get a new TPP done in any timeframe that matter (aka his first term). Even more so because of the issues with the State Department. Does the US even have ambassadors to all the TPP countries right now? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22559 Posts
On April 13 2018 06:54 Plansix wrote: Do the ethics offices have any actual authority? Can they do a thorough investigation? issue subpoena's and seize records in the way a special council can?You have it, it is call the White House/Congressional ethics office. Both branches have one. But if congress doesn't care about people breaking the rules, there isn't a lot that is going to change. Because I thought they were entirely toothless. | ||
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