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On April 12 2018 23:37 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2018 23:26 Doodsmack wrote:
Full court press against the law enforcement agencies right now. All it really does is ensures that trump won’t get impeached by a Republican House.
Not exactly news though, is it? We've known this for a good while. Unless Trump turns out to be literally guilty of murder, with a smoking gun in his hand, standing over the body in a bloodstained shirt and shouting 'I shot the bastard and I'm glad I did it', they're not impeaching him. And even then there'll be people praising him for 'telling it the way it is'. They've spent a huge amount of energy depicting the law enforcement agency doing the investigation as literal criminals and traitors for doing the thing they asked him to do. If they turn around and impeach now, they'll never live it down in front of the base. They might be on top of the world, but the Republicans - which is to say, not the far right but the normal right wing politicians in America - are in severe danger. Like it or loath it, they're the Trump show now. And if they feel the Clintons have stuck around too long... I suspect we'll be saying the same about Trump once he's gone. He's going to be a political force until he dies, I fear.
Hyperbolic for sure. World leaders won't listen to a word he says once he's gone. They only do so now (which is weird), because of the office. They know once someone more competent is in office once again, things will shift, hopefully for the better.
He might stick around in national politics because of the rabid, delusional fan base he's built (those who view rich, white males as beings above the rest), but other than that, he will be largely ignored by more intellectually informed voters. I wish anyway.
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On April 12 2018 23:57 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2018 23:37 iamthedave wrote:Not exactly news though, is it? We've known this for a good while. Unless Trump turns out to be literally guilty of murder, with a smoking gun in his hand, standing over the body in a bloodstained shirt and shouting 'I shot the bastard and I'm glad I did it', they're not impeaching him. And even then there'll be people praising him for 'telling it the way it is'. They've spent a huge amount of energy depicting the law enforcement agency doing the investigation as literal criminals and traitors for doing the thing they asked him to do. If they turn around and impeach now, they'll never live it down in front of the base. They might be on top of the world, but the Republicans - which is to say, not the far right but the normal right wing politicians in America - are in severe danger. Like it or loath it, they're the Trump show now. And if they feel the Clintons have stuck around too long... I suspect we'll be saying the same about Trump once he's gone. He's going to be a political force until he dies, I fear. Hyperbolic for sure. World leaders won't listen to a word he says once he's gone. They only do so now (which is weird), because of the office. They know once someone more competent is in office once again, things will shift, hopefully for the better. He might stick around in national politics because of the rabid, delusional fan base he's built (those who view rich, white males as beings above the rest), but other than that, he will be largely ignored by more intellectually informed voters. I wish anyway.
I'm not being hyperbolic in the least.
If Trump's popularity translates into long-term support from the base, he will be a Republican Kingmaker until the day he dies. Such people are immensely powerful in politics. Margaret Thatcher held incredible power over the Conservative Party, and British politics as a whole, until the day she died. I don't suspect Trump will have that level of sway (I doubt we'll have Democrats ever going to him for advice, like we had with Tony Blair talking to her regularly, for example), but I think a Kingmaker Trump, with Republicans aggressively seeking out his support, is entirely feasible.
And bear in mind also that a lot of Republican mainstay figures are seemingly retiring, so his voice has even more of a chance to last.
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Meh, it's just as likely, if not more likely, that Trumps name becomes political poison and that everyone, including the RNC, will spend years untangling and disassociating themselves from him.
This becomes exponentially more likely if they get crushed this fall.
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On April 13 2018 00:11 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2018 23:57 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On April 12 2018 23:37 iamthedave wrote:Not exactly news though, is it? We've known this for a good while. Unless Trump turns out to be literally guilty of murder, with a smoking gun in his hand, standing over the body in a bloodstained shirt and shouting 'I shot the bastard and I'm glad I did it', they're not impeaching him. And even then there'll be people praising him for 'telling it the way it is'. They've spent a huge amount of energy depicting the law enforcement agency doing the investigation as literal criminals and traitors for doing the thing they asked him to do. If they turn around and impeach now, they'll never live it down in front of the base. They might be on top of the world, but the Republicans - which is to say, not the far right but the normal right wing politicians in America - are in severe danger. Like it or loath it, they're the Trump show now. And if they feel the Clintons have stuck around too long... I suspect we'll be saying the same about Trump once he's gone. He's going to be a political force until he dies, I fear. Hyperbolic for sure. World leaders won't listen to a word he says once he's gone. They only do so now (which is weird), because of the office. They know once someone more competent is in office once again, things will shift, hopefully for the better. He might stick around in national politics because of the rabid, delusional fan base he's built (those who view rich, white males as beings above the rest), but other than that, he will be largely ignored by more intellectually informed voters. I wish anyway. I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. If Trump's popularity translates into long-term support from the base, he will be a Republican Kingmaker until the day he dies. Such people are immensely powerful in politics. Margaret Thatcher held incredible power over the Conservative Party, and British politics as a whole, until the day she died. I don't suspect Trump will have that level of sway (I doubt we'll have Democrats ever going to him for advice, like we had with Tony Blair talking to her regularly, for example), but I think a Kingmaker Trump, with Republicans aggressively seeking out his support, is entirely feasible. And bear in mind also that a lot of Republican mainstay figures are seemingly retiring, so his voice has even more of a chance to last.
I think once a lot of the bull policies his administration has put into affect really starts to hurt those who support him, he and the RNC will feel the brunt of that anger. I don't see his name being anything more than a footnote in history of the US. (Unless he gets NK to denuclearize and ends the war in Syria).
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On April 13 2018 00:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 00:11 iamthedave wrote:On April 12 2018 23:57 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On April 12 2018 23:37 iamthedave wrote:Not exactly news though, is it? We've known this for a good while. Unless Trump turns out to be literally guilty of murder, with a smoking gun in his hand, standing over the body in a bloodstained shirt and shouting 'I shot the bastard and I'm glad I did it', they're not impeaching him. And even then there'll be people praising him for 'telling it the way it is'. They've spent a huge amount of energy depicting the law enforcement agency doing the investigation as literal criminals and traitors for doing the thing they asked him to do. If they turn around and impeach now, they'll never live it down in front of the base. They might be on top of the world, but the Republicans - which is to say, not the far right but the normal right wing politicians in America - are in severe danger. Like it or loath it, they're the Trump show now. And if they feel the Clintons have stuck around too long... I suspect we'll be saying the same about Trump once he's gone. He's going to be a political force until he dies, I fear. Hyperbolic for sure. World leaders won't listen to a word he says once he's gone. They only do so now (which is weird), because of the office. They know once someone more competent is in office once again, things will shift, hopefully for the better. He might stick around in national politics because of the rabid, delusional fan base he's built (those who view rich, white males as beings above the rest), but other than that, he will be largely ignored by more intellectually informed voters. I wish anyway. I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. If Trump's popularity translates into long-term support from the base, he will be a Republican Kingmaker until the day he dies. Such people are immensely powerful in politics. Margaret Thatcher held incredible power over the Conservative Party, and British politics as a whole, until the day she died. I don't suspect Trump will have that level of sway (I doubt we'll have Democrats ever going to him for advice, like we had with Tony Blair talking to her regularly, for example), but I think a Kingmaker Trump, with Republicans aggressively seeking out his support, is entirely feasible. And bear in mind also that a lot of Republican mainstay figures are seemingly retiring, so his voice has even more of a chance to last. I think once a lot of the bull policies his administration has put into affect really starts to hurt those who support him, he and the RNC will feel the brunt of that anger. I don't see his name being anything more than a footnote in history of the US. (Unless he gets NK to denuclearize and ends the war in Syria).
As onslaught said above, it's entirely possible it'll go the other way, especially if he galvanises a crushing switch back over to Democrat control of both houses, and if he ends up a one-term President it's also quite possible.
And I was in the same boat as you for a while, but I didn't expect Trump to be culturally embraced as deeply as he has been by the Republican public. I'm not sure if the Fox News machine can disentangle from him now.
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A strong leader with strong convictions.
User was temp banned for this post.
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This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html
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Is there a socially acceptable period of time that needs to pass before a book can be published under those circumstances?
Honestly seems like a touchy subject.
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On April 13 2018 02:40 bo1b wrote:
Is there a socially acceptable period of time that needs to pass before a book can be published under those circumstances?
Honestly seems like a touchy subject.
Normally within a year or so of leaving. It is why firing folks on bad terms is risky in politics, because they can just write a book about it.
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I'll try to start some level of discussion on this.
Why does Trump want to get back into TPP not two weeks (I think) after imposing billions of dollars in tariffs on China? I get that he wants to help out American farmers, but wasn't the whole purpose of ending America's involvement in the TPP and leveraging tariffs was because it hurt American workers to be involved in global trade? I'm not going to go so far as to accuse him of flip-flopping because he could have been convinced by his advisers (at least, what's left of them lol) to rejoin over the past few weeks, but it seems like more of him being easily swayed to do something he said he wouldn't by the last people he talked to.
EDIT: I think I could be reading the tweet wrong, did Trump order the review of rejoining TPP or did Sasse? I would assume Trump, but just wanted to be sure
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My feeling is that Trump felt that they could win a trade war, but didn’t really understand what a trade war was. And now that he is seeing it first hand, he is blinking and looking at something like the TPP as an out. It is another example of Trump thinking there are simply solutions to complex problems and forcing us all to find out he was wrong the hard way.
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@plasmid
reading the tweet; it looks like trump ordered the review; but it's all according to sasse; dunno how reliable such a report would be as I don't recall who that is.
I'd wait for a clearer statement.
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Based on what I'm reading elsewhere, Trump was the one who ordered a look into rejoining the TPP.
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On April 13 2018 02:49 plasmidghost wrote:I'll try to start some level of discussion on this. Why does Trump want to get back into TPP not two weeks (I think) after imposing billions of dollars in tariffs on China? I get that he wants to help out American farmers, but wasn't the whole purpose of ending America's involvement in the TPP and leveraging tariffs was because it hurt American workers to be involved in global trade? I'm not going to go so far as to accuse him of flip-flopping because he could have been convinced by his advisers (at least, what's left of them lol) to rejoin over the past few weeks, but it seems like more of him being easily swayed to do something he said he wouldn't by the last people he talked to. EDIT: I think I could be reading the tweet wrong, did Trump order the review of rejoining TPP or did Sasse? I would assume Trump, but just wanted to be sure
Not to second guess a financial genius like Trump, but my guess is that he thought levying all of these tariffs would make China/EU fold, because he genuinely believes they have more to lose than the US does. Unfortunately, as is always the case with a political neophyte, he quite literally doesn't understand who he's messing with. Politicians - especially those with the nous to make it to the world stage - are day-to-day familiar with the game of 'who blinks first', and they know when they can't afford to blink.
He basically put many of the world's best politicians, some of whom are in critical periods (like Xi Jinping in China; let's not forget he pretty much announced that China's taking over as the world superpower about two months ago) and are absolutely not going to blink unless put in a truly terrible situation. The EU has been on the backfoot because of right wing populism for ages, so they need a win, too.
So he's now in a position where his own party is getting goat screwed by people he believed to be weak but in actual fact targeted his own supporters with sniper-like precision because they know how American politics works way better than Trump knows how theirs does, and has entered into a political battle of wills with people who have actual willpower and have - in some cases - being doing this for decades.
I imagine every advisor around him, even the ones he trusts, can't put a positive spin on the outlook for him in the short term. And pressure must be mounting about the 2018 elections. And didn't he recently lose yet another place he swept in 2016?
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I get the feeling Trump has been convinced of not continuing tariffs due to economic reasons from his various advisers, and now feels he can join the TPP based on the win he seemingly got against China just recently.
As someone who does not live in America it is extremely unappealing if the TPP does go through, though I'm sure many Americans have a vastly different view on it.
Also I sometimes think a lot of the decisions Trump wants to make sound great on paper were he supreme leader for life, but sometime after taking action political reality sets in and he then has to back track.
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I feel like Americans don’t really understand the TPP because our elected officials don’t bother to explain complex, multi-nation trade deals to the public. It is to complex for me to fully wrap my brain around too. Though, to be fair, the public never really gave a shit about them for well over 20 years. But it as a way to reign in China’s bad practices.
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I dream of the day when Americans understand that the economy is larger than the continental US and that selling whatever they produce to foreign markets is in their best interests. If we can get China to clamp down in IP, then it's a win for the global economy, in my opinion. This is again, when people who vote against their best interests are forced to face reality that some people are just unfit.
I'm not sure how this will all shake out, but it seems like the RNC is about to find itself in the same boat as the DNC, in that the candidate they thought would lead them to something higher, wasn't the right choice. Granted, the RNC had a horrible cast all along, so they were screwed either way.
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On April 13 2018 03:07 Plansix wrote:
I feel like Americans don’t really understand the TPP because our elected officials don’t bother to explain complex, multi-nation trade deals to the public. It is to complex for me to fully wrap my brain around too. Though, to be fair, the public never really gave a shit about them for well over 20 years. But it as a way to reign in China’s bad practices.
That's true, I don't really understand most of it, but I also feel like if the politicians tried to explain the benefits of it, they would fall largely on deaf ears since it seems like most Americans don't trust what politicians have to say since "they're all crooks" (thanks Nixon)
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On April 13 2018 03:33 plasmidghost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 03:07 Plansix wrote:
I feel like Americans don’t really understand the TPP because our elected officials don’t bother to explain complex, multi-nation trade deals to the public. It is to complex for me to fully wrap my brain around too. Though, to be fair, the public never really gave a shit about them for well over 20 years. But it as a way to reign in China’s bad practices. That's true, I don't really understand most of it, but I also feel like if the politicians tried to explain the benefits of it, they would fall largely on deaf ears since it seems like most Americans don't trust what politicians have to say since "they're all crooks" (thanks Nixon)
many americans trust some politicians; the ones they like/support, and may change their own beliefs/opinions based on what those people say. of course it's a two-way street, with politicians saying stuff people wnat to hear/will support easily. which leads to some annoying feedback loops.
factual explanations simply don't work that well in general anyways at convincing people. in fact they work terribly at convincing people.
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https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-trolls-denied-syrian-gas-attackbefore-it-happened
So title/url pretty much sums up the story here. The gas attack was denied before it even happened (or at least before anyone knew about it). I mean it's not like we need additional evidence that Russian government controlled trolls is a thing, but if anyone is still in doubt; There you go. We desperately need to regulate social media outlets to stop this. It's easy for us here to laugh at the stupidity, but people do believe these trolls just because of the fact that anything repeated enough times suddenly sounds really true.
edit: For anyone wondering, the trolls in this story operated on Youtube and Twitter.
edit2: I feel like we should find a new word for these guys. Trolls generally aren't controller by a government, and they generally don't try to massively influence people of another country with propaganda. Trolls generally just want to make other's angry for fun, what these guys are doing is something else completely.
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EPT
