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On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong.
the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon?
also, who are you implying is a scumbag?
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On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag?
It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation.
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On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation.
Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation?
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On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing off his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong.
Is it necessarily inconsistent to disagree with Comey regarding the Comey letter, but still consider his firing a baldfaced attempt by Trump to shut down an investigation into his own wrongdoing? I don't even think it's oarticularly inconsistent to say both "Comey made the wrong call that one time" and "Comey was overall an honorable and praiseworthy public servant," although I know too little of his career to be able to say the latter with any confidence.
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On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation?
Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall.
Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here.
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On April 14 2018 00:02 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing off his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. Is it necessarily inconsistent to disagree with Comey regarding the Comey letter, but still consider his firing a baldfaced attempt by Trump to shut down an investigation into his own wrongdoing? I don't even think it's oarticularly inconsistent to say both "Comey made the wrong call that one time" and "Comey was overall an honorable and praiseworthy public servant," although I know too little of his career to be able to say the latter with any confidence.
It wasn't even the Comey letter, in that he didn't unilaterally write it or release it. And the problem it addressed was also complicated, in that they couldn't also say she was entirely NOT under investigation.
Either way, it helped Trump get elected. Comey has been silent for about a year now except for the occasional university-spiel. The idea that he is "beclowning himself" or "showing off his ego" is... whatever. Who believes that shit? Somewhere in between that pathetic Trump-deflection and hero-worship, is the truth. And wow, that's a gigantic fucking gray-area, isn't it? He is whatever. A Republican, David Brooks-reading, king of cops. He doesn't have to be perfect. He just has to not be a complete fucking liar. That's the only threshold that's being asked here.
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On April 14 2018 00:02 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing off his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. Is it necessarily inconsistent to disagree with Comey regarding the Comey letter, but still consider his firing a baldfaced attempt by Trump to shut down an investigation into his own wrongdoing? I don't even think it's oarticularly inconsistent to say both "Comey made the wrong call that one time" and "Comey was overall an honorable and praiseworthy public servant," although I know too little of his career to be able to say the latter with any confidence.
No, but that isn't the contention. Democrats were livid, it wasn't "well I believe he was in error, but he's a good man."
But it appears we are destined to do this forever because people will engage in all sorts of post hoc revisionism of what happens as needs dictate. Comey is trashing Trump, now he is a "flawed but honorable" public servant, even in the midst of his grandstanding.
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On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation.
lots of people on the left don't regard comey as a "hero" now. which was the other part of your statement, you don't get to pick the easy part to make your case (which you were makin ga case of flip-flopping or something, not simply asserting that some on the left disliked comey for that one action full stop), that's disingenuous.
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On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here.
At the time, it felt like an overly rigid interpretation/execution of the law. It was like telling your wife she was fat, because she is objectively fat, but is also 34 weeks pregnant. Sure, she's fat, but have a fucking brain.
In retrospect, I am very glad Comey did what he did. Comey's handling of Clinton ended up providing a lot of necessary credibility for when the FBI went after the Trump goons. After Comey body slamming Clinton's presumed victory, political parties are going to think twice about who they let grab the nomination. Clinton was a very mixed bag. Democrats got burned really, really hard. They won't put their hand on that stove again. I am happy about the PTSD Comey gave every Democrat in the country. It will burn for a long time and we won't let it happen again. We all turned a blind eye to the shady, arrogant nature of Clinton.
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On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here.
Because your assertion is overly broad, vague and does not provide any specific evidence to back it up. The email investigation was a large, multi pronged issue that was before congress and the FBI. The “left” is a huge group with a variety of views on the subject, including some that approve of most of the Comey did.
And again, the article you are responding it so about the Republican leadership creating a media plan to discredit him. And your response is that left leaning people had, and voice opinions. Did the DNC buy ads to discredit him during the email investigation? Because that would be viable counter point.
And yeah, people here get tired of lazy posting about “the left”. Be specific. Talk about specific groups or people.
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On April 14 2018 00:12 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. At the time, it felt like an overly rigid interpretation/execution of the law. It was like telling your wife she was fat, because she is objectively fat, but is also 34 weeks pregnant. Sure, she's fat, but have a fucking brain. In retrospect, I am very glad Comey did what he did. Comey's handling of Clinton ended up providing a lot of necessary credibility for when the FBI went after the Trump goons. After Comey body slamming Clinton's presumed victory, political parties are going to think twice about who they let grab the nomination. Clinton was a very mixed bag. Democrats got burned really, really hard. They won't put their hand on that stove again.
or perhaps if they hadn't done it, they wouldn't have to go after trump goons at all, because trump would'n tbe in office. and it was an arguable violation of fbi policy and statutory law. and if you look at the republican base's views of the fbi and how they're shifting, it' snot clear that that action actually helped their view of the fbi muhc or did provide them with credibility cover.
clinton may've been a mixed bag, but there weren't a lot of amazing choices, and she was a perfectly reasonable choice.
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On April 14 2018 00:12 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. At the time, it felt like an overly rigid interpretation/execution of the law. It was like telling your wife she was fat, because she is objectively fat, but is also 34 weeks pregnant. Sure, she's fat, but have a fucking brain. In retrospect, I am very glad Comey did what he did. Comey's handling of Clinton ended up providing a lot of necessary credibility for when the FBI went after the Trump goons. After Comey body slamming Clinton's presumed victory, political parties are going to think twice about who they let grab the nomination. Clinton was a very mixed bag. Democrats got burned really, really hard. They won't put their hand on that stove again. I am happy about the PTSD Comey gave every Democrat in the country. It will burn for a long time and we won't let it happen again. We all turned a blind eye to the shady, arrogant nature of Clinton.
I say this as no insult but I don't get your reasoning sometimes. At any rate this is one form of exactly what I described. Albeit "I liked the result in the end" is not the most common expression of it.
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Eh, I get why Comey did what he did and kind of where he's coming from. That doesn't stop me from thinking (i) that it had an impact on the outcome of the election and (ii) he could have gone about things a different way. And in the alternate world where Comey handles things differently, maybe we're better off - but that's what-if-ing.
To be fair, this is my current position - in the emotional moment, I almost certainly said some different things. But I'm the kind of person who gets very invested, but once it's over it's done and there's no point with what if's and relitigating - there's not enough time to bother with that.
Also, he's also doing a fair bit of self-promoting/ his-version-of-events-ing. Like the bit about Obama telling him that his faith in his was not shaken or whatever - I'm sure it happened, but that seems to have been meant as a personal gesture by Obama and trotting it out now is a little distasteful. Though again, I understand where all this comes from.
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On April 14 2018 00:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. Because your assertion is overly broad, vague and does not provide any specific evidence to back it up. The email investigation was a large, multi pronged issue that was before congress and the FBI. The “left” is a huge group with a variety of views on the subject, including some that approve of most of the Comey did. And again, the article you are responding it so about the Republican leadership creating a media plan to discredit him. And your response is that left leaning people had, and voice opinions. Did the DNC buy ads to discredit him during the email investigation? Because that would be viable counter point. And yeah, people here get tired of lazy posting about “the left”. Be specific. Talk about specific groups or people.
See, I know this isn't right because the I was responding to a broad brush attack on "conservatives."
Using "the left" is acceptable because it's true in this case. You ask for proof but it's more amazing that people here doubt that leftwing attacks on Comey's actions were ubiquitous.
Edit: Maybe I shouldn't argue this point without GH here as this is one if those things he's pointed out repeatedly that I actually agree with.
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On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. I assume I qualify as a left person.
I said at the time that it was horrible timing but that Comey had to send to letter to cover his ass. If he doesn't he gets bombed for 'hiding an investigation into Clinton during the election".
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On April 14 2018 00:17 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:12 Mohdoo wrote:On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. At the time, it felt like an overly rigid interpretation/execution of the law. It was like telling your wife she was fat, because she is objectively fat, but is also 34 weeks pregnant. Sure, she's fat, but have a fucking brain. In retrospect, I am very glad Comey did what he did. Comey's handling of Clinton ended up providing a lot of necessary credibility for when the FBI went after the Trump goons. After Comey body slamming Clinton's presumed victory, political parties are going to think twice about who they let grab the nomination. Clinton was a very mixed bag. Democrats got burned really, really hard. They won't put their hand on that stove again. I am happy about the PTSD Comey gave every Democrat in the country. It will burn for a long time and we won't let it happen again. We all turned a blind eye to the shady, arrogant nature of Clinton. I say this as no insult but I don't get your reasoning sometimes. At any rate this is one form of exactly what I described. Albeit "I liked the result in the end" is not the most common expression of it.
I should elaborate. Society nowadays is hyper partisan and there are a lot of competing ideas and theories and philosophies. I like the idea of the FBI treating law the same way my autistic friend treats Warcraft lore. The FBI caring about nothing but making sure anyone who does illegal shit gets taken down for exactly what they have done sounds great to me. I realize this is far from the truth, currently, but I saw Comey's decision to Burn Clinton's campaign to the ground as Comey thinking "consequences be damned, this is the correct thing to do". The FBI has not always been so rigid or principled. I choose to see Comey's Clinton letter as an attempt to bring the FBI back to a more rigid, unfeeling entity. I want the FBI to be that, an unfeeling yet ferociously persistent animal that wants nothing more than to make people answer for their crimes.
What are you saying you don't get? What I mean by liking the end result is that (more) people had confidence the FBI was not just being partisan by going after Manafort and Flynn. People thinking "damn, apparently the FBI just rips apart anyone who has done bad shit, party be damned" is a good thing. The next high profile democrat taken down by the FBI will have less reasons to cry about partisan bullshit after all this.
There have been some very, very partisan investigations throughout history. I would like to think the Clinton and Trump investigations were not partisan in nature. That is the "end result" I am happy about. And I am happy about the fact that it will make political parties think twice before trying to get away with someone shady.
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On April 14 2018 00:23 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:15 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. Because your assertion is overly broad, vague and does not provide any specific evidence to back it up. The email investigation was a large, multi pronged issue that was before congress and the FBI. The “left” is a huge group with a variety of views on the subject, including some that approve of most of the Comey did. And again, the article you are responding it so about the Republican leadership creating a media plan to discredit him. And your response is that left leaning people had, and voice opinions. Did the DNC buy ads to discredit him during the email investigation? Because that would be viable counter point. And yeah, people here get tired of lazy posting about “the left”. Be specific. Talk about specific groups or people. See, I know this isn't right because the I was responding to a broad brush attack on "conservatives." Using "the left" is acceptable because it's true in this case. You ask for proof but it's more amazing that people here doubt that leftwing attacks on Comey's actions were ubiquitous.
Conservatives are a subsection of right leaning politics. When I talk about them, I try to be specific to the group of conservatives I am talking about. I go so far as to say “some conservatives” or “the conservative leadership in the House” when it comes to what I know to be a minority view within conservative circles. In this specific case the post you responded to was also a bit sweeping and overly broad. But if you felt it was unfair, why would you then turn around and commit the exact same sin by over generalizing about the left?
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On April 14 2018 00:10 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:02 ChristianS wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing off his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. Is it necessarily inconsistent to disagree with Comey regarding the Comey letter, but still consider his firing a baldfaced attempt by Trump to shut down an investigation into his own wrongdoing? I don't even think it's oarticularly inconsistent to say both "Comey made the wrong call that one time" and "Comey was overall an honorable and praiseworthy public servant," although I know too little of his career to be able to say the latter with any confidence. No, but that isn't the contention. Democrats were livid, it wasn't "well I believe he was in error, but he's a good man." But it appears we are destined to do this forever because people will engage in all sorts of post hoc revisionism of what happens as needs dictate. Comey is trashing Trump, now he is a "flawed but honorable" public servant, even in the midst of his grandstanding.
I mean, yeah they were livid. They thought the FBI director fucked up and cost them maybe the most important election of their lives. It's still not inconsistent to say "even if he fucked up, it's still bad for Trump to fire him just to slow down the investigation." Not to mention that just because people didn't feel the need to soften their criticism in 2016 with "but he's still a good man" doesn't mean the didn't believe it. There may be hypocrites on the left on this issue, but in trying to indict the entire left here you're glossing over a lot of perfectly consistent stances.
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On April 14 2018 00:26 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. I assume I qualify as a left person. I said at the time that it was horrible timing but that Comey had to send to letter to cover his ass. If he doesn't he gets bombed for 'hiding an investigation into Clinton during the election".
I'm going to have to stop posting after this for now but part of Comey criticism is how his previous actions left him in that position in October. And an excerpt from his book says he thought the polls showed Hillary would win anyways so he did it (?).
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On April 14 2018 00:28 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2018 00:17 Introvert wrote:On April 14 2018 00:12 Mohdoo wrote:On April 14 2018 00:05 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:58 Plansix wrote:On April 13 2018 23:55 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 23:47 zlefin wrote:On April 13 2018 23:20 Introvert wrote:On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:On April 13 2018 02:27 Plansix wrote:This story on CNN about the GOP’s plan to discredit Comey that includes buying ad time to do it is something else. Just wild that a political party would go through so much effort to discredit him and be so overt about it. I'm not wild about Comey's book tour, but the man can do whatever he wants and this is what happens when people get fired from goverment. They write books about their experience. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/politics/trump-comey-publicity-tour/index.html The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war. Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure. The left spent hours trashing Comey for sinking Hillary until the moment he was fired. Now he's a hero. Meanwhile he's busy beclowning himself and showing his massive ego. But some people so hate Trump that apparently Trump asking for something to be proven to not exist is evidence of its existence while Comey comes out and says "I don't know," code for "I have no evidence it does but that's not a headline." Someone said, I don't remember who (not on TL) that while Trump is a scumbag he also has a way of revealing who else is too. Doesn't seem half wrong. the left is a big group, with many people who did different things. is it the SAME people saying those things, or simpyl different people on the left, that you decided to group together as a single entity to cast unsound aspersions upon? also, who are you implying is a scumbag? It was and is pretty universal. Find me someone on the left who thinks Comey did a good job handling the email investigation. Can you please be more specific about “the left”? There is nothing universal about a group that large. And which part of the investigation? Uh, the entire left? Except maybe a few Bernie people who hate Hillary? Why am I getting push back on this contention? Every Democrat or other leftwing person thinks Comey shouldn't have released his October letter for instance. Some are still upset he was so harsh on Hillary even in July. Democrat leadership said he should lose his job, if I recall. Certainly enough people to make that statement generally true. I know there is a bugaboo about using " the left" but it seems pretty justified here. At the time, it felt like an overly rigid interpretation/execution of the law. It was like telling your wife she was fat, because she is objectively fat, but is also 34 weeks pregnant. Sure, she's fat, but have a fucking brain. In retrospect, I am very glad Comey did what he did. Comey's handling of Clinton ended up providing a lot of necessary credibility for when the FBI went after the Trump goons. After Comey body slamming Clinton's presumed victory, political parties are going to think twice about who they let grab the nomination. Clinton was a very mixed bag. Democrats got burned really, really hard. They won't put their hand on that stove again. I am happy about the PTSD Comey gave every Democrat in the country. It will burn for a long time and we won't let it happen again. We all turned a blind eye to the shady, arrogant nature of Clinton. I say this as no insult but I don't get your reasoning sometimes. At any rate this is one form of exactly what I described. Albeit "I liked the result in the end" is not the most common expression of it. I should elaborate. Society nowadays is hyper partisan and there are a lot of competing ideas and theories and philosophies. I like the idea of the FBI treating law the same way my autistic friend treats Warcraft lore. The FBI caring about nothing but making sure anyone who does illegal shit gets taken down for exactly what they have done sounds great to me. I realize this is far from the truth, currently, but I saw Comey's decision to Burn Clinton's campaign to the ground as Comey thinking "consequences be damned, this is the correct thing to do". The FBI has not always been so rigid or principled. I choose to see Comey's Clinton letter as an attempt to bring the FBI back to a more rigid, unfeeling entity. I want the FBI to be that, an unfeeling yet ferociously persistent animal that wants nothing more than to make people answer for their crimes. What are you saying you don't get? What I mean by liking the end result is that (more) people had confidence the FBI was not just being partisan by going after Manafort and Flynn. People thinking "damn, apparently the FBI just rips apart anyone who has done bad shit, party be damned" is a good thing. The next high profile democrat taken down by the FBI will have less reasons to cry about partisan bullshit after all this. There have been some very, very partisan investigations throughout history. I would like to think the Clinton and Trump investigations were not partisan in nature. That is the "end result" I am happy about. And I am happy about the fact that it will make political parties think twice before trying to get away with someone shady.
why would you think that was comey's reasoning? I mean, you can as you say, choose to see it that way, but that doesn't mean it is that way.
you also seem to be glossing over the point wherein comey's actions may have themselves violated the law and fbi policy.
and the current results don' tdiscourage people from using someone shady; as the shadier (by far) candidate won.
oh and @introvert, i'm gonna assume based on your non-response that you're not even aware of the previous argument you made, the one to which I objected. so you're just being very sloppy in posting and arguing.
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EPT
