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On January 27 2019 09:04 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 08:51 iamthedave wrote:On January 27 2019 08:04 Gorsameth wrote:
You think the western media is hating on Venezuela because of its 'socialism' or because the government, through corruption and incompetence, has destroyed the country?
100% because of its Socialism. There are countries in way worse state than Venezuala that don't get anywhere near the attention or pressure to change. Actual, full blown dictatorships, too. The difference is that Venezuala - as a successful Socialist nation - posed a literal threat to the world order as we know it. It is, shall we say, a rather unequally applied moral standard. Please name the countries that have WAY worse humanitarian crisis than Venezuela that are not getting attention? That was true in 2002. It isn't 2002. Venezuelan socialism was a threat to Capitalism when it was successful. Now that it is a full blown failure it is only a thread to Socialism. Part of the reason the fascist asshat won in Brazil was because had a "don't let us turn into Venezuela" message. They are producing 5000 refugees a day!!! infant mortality is through the roof. The only one touting this as war on socialism is their dictator. Also, why the hell wouldn't the fascist leaders of Russia, Turkey, Syria, Iran support a war against socialism? The logic does not even make sense.
You're right, its not 2002. Things are very different, and yet the media in the West reacts exactly the same way in 2019 as they did in 2002.
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I'm not alleging a conspiracy, I'm not even saying that the media is lying about anything or biased. I'm saying they definitely were lying and biased in 2002, and it pretty much proves that negative media opinion of Venezuela goes deeper than the current crisis. This in turns makes it impossible to trust the sources that provide the stories for the biased media.
Again I'm being non-committal on purpose.
The main thing I'm worried about is heavy handed US intervention sparking a civil war something like Syria. With all of the various claims to power (its not just the official opposition here - the military and drugs cartels could hold real power and cause real problems if it came to it) things are ready to burst if things aren't done in a controlled way.
The US needs to butt out, as does the EU and UK.
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On January 27 2019 09:41 JimmiC wrote:
I would not support military intervention for the exact reason you say. I do support other measures to pressure a fair election. The civilians are always the big losers in war.
All the US needs to do is make a few phone calls, toss some sanctions at it and the entire country screeches to a fault and they are forced to elect the US puppet. Our administration just doesn't care.
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On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe.
Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research.
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On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research.
The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already...
But I'm sure you have researched that already.
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On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already.
The whole idea of whining about outside influence is so infantile. Yeah, global dynamics have advanced to a point where some players are huge. This isn't some stupid ass elementary school little league softball tournament. Outside influence isn't cheating. Venezuelan only exists because the US, China and Russia allow it to exist.
To me, the idea of whining about major countries influencing minor countries is no different than asking for special considerations. Eat or be eaten. There is no divine intervention allowing all countries to be <3.
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On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already.
It wasn't a paradise before Chavez but his insane economic policy which could only be sustained by record oil revenue directly led to this humanitarian disaster.
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On January 27 2019 16:51 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. It wasn't a paradise before Chavez but his insane economic policy which could only be sustained by record oil revenue directly led to this humanitarian disaster.
To be honest in many ways, Chavez record is not even that bad in itself and even had quite remarquable achivements. And it would be fair to say also that the country was a corrupt mess sitting on enormous ressources being sucked up by american companies before he came to power. The guy was an authoritarian populist and he might have paved the way to what Venezuela is experiencing now but he divided poverty by two, tripled the GNP per capita, gave the country a solid education and health system, and so on and so forth.
The two problems have been that his “bolivarian” program was built on a strong barrel and that the rest of its economy is terribly underdevelopped, so when the oil prices plunged they took with them the economy of the whole country, and of course that Maduro is an incompetent, dishonest idiot. And Venezuela never had the structures and the institutions to survive a moron as the US do. As much as the limited damages Trump do are a testament to the resilience of US democracy, the presidency of Maduro has exposed all the weaknesses of Venezuela.
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On January 27 2019 13:10 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. The whole idea of whining about outside influence is so infantile. Yeah, global dynamics have advanced to a point where some players are huge. This isn't some stupid ass elementary school little league softball tournament. Outside influence isn't cheating. Venezuelan only exists because the US, China and Russia allow it to exist. To me, the idea of whining about major countries influencing minor countries is no different than asking for special considerations. Eat or be eaten. There is no divine intervention allowing all countries to be <3.
How exactly is it infantile, when the world's largest economy is hostile to your nation and it's putting crippling sanctions to an already struggling to reform economy...?
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On January 27 2019 09:02 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 08:51 iamthedave wrote:On January 27 2019 08:04 Gorsameth wrote:
You think the western media is hating on Venezuela because of its 'socialism' or because the government, through corruption and incompetence, has destroyed the country?
100% because of its Socialism. There are countries in way worse state than Venezuala that don't get anywhere near the attention or pressure to change. Actual, full blown dictatorships, too. The difference is that Venezuala - as a successful Socialist nation - posed a literal threat to the world order as we know it. It is, shall we say, a rather unequally applied moral standard. Venezuela sure looks weird for a 'successful socialist nation'. Wonder why so many people are fleeing this great nation that poses a threat to world order. I would argue its not socialism that get's people's attention, but the inevitable front for a dictatorship, corruption and extortion of the people that has played out in pretty much every backwater that has embraced 'socialism'. As for unequal standards, welcome to media. Time is finite, misery in the world appears to be infinite. And yes ofcourse there is an agenda in what does or does not get shown, but the threat to world order by successful socialism sure isn't it.
Didn't notice that past tense there, did ya fella? Venezuala's in a mess, but when Chavez was leading it it was absolutely viewed as a threat to the world order. It was a left wing Socialist miracle, in an era when we've all been convinced Capitalism is the only possible way.
So yes, a literal threat to the established world order.
On January 27 2019 13:10 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. The whole idea of whining about outside influence is so infantile. Yeah, global dynamics have advanced to a point where some players are huge. This isn't some stupid ass elementary school little league softball tournament. Outside influence isn't cheating. Venezuelan only exists because the US, China and Russia allow it to exist. To me, the idea of whining about major countries influencing minor countries is no different than asking for special considerations. Eat or be eaten. There is no divine intervention allowing all countries to be <3.
Your utter political nihilism is noted.
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On January 27 2019 18:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 16:51 RvB wrote:On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. It wasn't a paradise before Chavez but his insane economic policy which could only be sustained by record oil revenue directly led to this humanitarian disaster. To be honest in many ways, Chavez record is not even that bad in itself and even had quite remarquable achivements. And it would be fair to say also that the country was a corrupt mess sitting on enormous ressources being sucked up by american companies before he came to power. The guy was an authoritarian populist and he might have paved the way to what Venezuela is experiencing now but he divided poverty by two, tripled the GNP per capita, gave the country a solid education and health system, and so on and so forth. The two problems have been that his “bolivarian” program was built on a strong barrel and that the rest of its economy is terribly underdevelopped, so when the oil prices plunged they took with them the economy of the whole country, and of course that Maduro is an incompetent, dishonest idiot. And Venezuela never had the structures and the institutions to survive a moron as the US do. As much as the limited damages Trump do are a testament to the resilience of US democracy, the presidency of Maduro has exposed all the weaknesses of Venezuela.
The nationalisation of Venezuala's oil industry was in the 70's. The cooperation with international multinationals was also necessary for outside expertise and technology. Partly nationalising the industry while cooperating with multinationals is pretty normal. Even developed countries usually follow that route. What Chavez did is put it full of cronies and use it for political projects. It was quite efficient before Chavez but not so much after.
The problem is that Chavez exacerbated the problems in the economy. Nationalizing industries, price caps, pegging his currency to the dollar, his many socialistic vanity projects, unsustainable welfare etc. crowded out the private sector. Oil was literally the only thing paying for all his welfare projects and that's a consequence of his own policy. All Maduro did is continue this disastrous economic policy with oil prices collapsing. The division between Chavez and Maduro is entirely arbitrary. Venezuela makes once again clear that socialism is a shitty economic system and that the welfare state has to be paid by a market based economy.
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On January 27 2019 20:26 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 18:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 27 2019 16:51 RvB wrote:On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. It wasn't a paradise before Chavez but his insane economic policy which could only be sustained by record oil revenue directly led to this humanitarian disaster. To be honest in many ways, Chavez record is not even that bad in itself and even had quite remarquable achivements. And it would be fair to say also that the country was a corrupt mess sitting on enormous ressources being sucked up by american companies before he came to power. The guy was an authoritarian populist and he might have paved the way to what Venezuela is experiencing now but he divided poverty by two, tripled the GNP per capita, gave the country a solid education and health system, and so on and so forth. The two problems have been that his “bolivarian” program was built on a strong barrel and that the rest of its economy is terribly underdevelopped, so when the oil prices plunged they took with them the economy of the whole country, and of course that Maduro is an incompetent, dishonest idiot. And Venezuela never had the structures and the institutions to survive a moron as the US do. As much as the limited damages Trump do are a testament to the resilience of US democracy, the presidency of Maduro has exposed all the weaknesses of Venezuela. The nationalisation of Venezuala's oil industry was in the 70's. The cooperation with international multinationals was also necessary for outside expertise and technology. Partly nationalising the industry while cooperating with multinationals is pretty normal. Even developed countries usually follow that route. What Chavez did is put it full of cronies and use it for political projects. It was quite efficient before Chavez but not so much after. The problem is that Chavez exacerbated the problems in the economy. Nationalizing industries, price caps, pegging his currency to the dollar, his many socialistic vanity projects, unsustainable welfare etc. crowded out the private sector. Oil was literally the only thing paying for all his welfare projects and that's a consequence of his own policy. All Maduro did is continue this disastrous economic policy with oil prices collapsing. The division between Chavez and Maduro is entirely arbitrary. Venezuela makes once again clear that socialism is a shitty economic system and that the welfare state has to be paid by a market based economy.
All of which is ignoring that Venezuala was dependent on oil before Chavez, too, thus drawing a false conclusion in an attempt to make Socialism look bad. What fucked Venezuala over was a change in the oil market, not 'crowding out the private sector'. And prior to Chavez that private sector just took all the money and left the poor in horrendous conditions. If you want to look at it another way, Chavez's time was a period of boom for the poor and disenfranchised instead of another period of boom for oil executives.
There were mistakes made but they had nothing to do with Socialism per se, and far more to do with intrinsic weaknesses to Venezuala's economy.
Chavez's biggest mistake was making no attempt to diversify, but it's entirely possible that Venezuala actually can't diversify to the level needed due to not having much in the way of natural resources besides oil.
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On January 27 2019 21:31 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 20:26 RvB wrote:On January 27 2019 18:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 27 2019 16:51 RvB wrote:On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. It wasn't a paradise before Chavez but his insane economic policy which could only be sustained by record oil revenue directly led to this humanitarian disaster. To be honest in many ways, Chavez record is not even that bad in itself and even had quite remarquable achivements. And it would be fair to say also that the country was a corrupt mess sitting on enormous ressources being sucked up by american companies before he came to power. The guy was an authoritarian populist and he might have paved the way to what Venezuela is experiencing now but he divided poverty by two, tripled the GNP per capita, gave the country a solid education and health system, and so on and so forth. The two problems have been that his “bolivarian” program was built on a strong barrel and that the rest of its economy is terribly underdevelopped, so when the oil prices plunged they took with them the economy of the whole country, and of course that Maduro is an incompetent, dishonest idiot. And Venezuela never had the structures and the institutions to survive a moron as the US do. As much as the limited damages Trump do are a testament to the resilience of US democracy, the presidency of Maduro has exposed all the weaknesses of Venezuela. The nationalisation of Venezuala's oil industry was in the 70's. The cooperation with international multinationals was also necessary for outside expertise and technology. Partly nationalising the industry while cooperating with multinationals is pretty normal. Even developed countries usually follow that route. What Chavez did is put it full of cronies and use it for political projects. It was quite efficient before Chavez but not so much after. The problem is that Chavez exacerbated the problems in the economy. Nationalizing industries, price caps, pegging his currency to the dollar, his many socialistic vanity projects, unsustainable welfare etc. crowded out the private sector. Oil was literally the only thing paying for all his welfare projects and that's a consequence of his own policy. All Maduro did is continue this disastrous economic policy with oil prices collapsing. The division between Chavez and Maduro is entirely arbitrary. Venezuela makes once again clear that socialism is a shitty economic system and that the welfare state has to be paid by a market based economy. All of which is ignoring that Venezuala was dependent on oil before Chavez, too, thus drawing a false conclusion in an attempt to make Socialism look bad. What fucked Venezuala over was a change in the oil market, not 'crowding out the private sector'. And prior to Chavez that private sector just took all the money and left the poor in horrendous conditions. If you want to look at it another way, Chavez's time was a period of boom for the poor and disenfranchised instead of another period of boom for oil executives. There were mistakes made but they had nothing to do with Socialism per se, and far more to do with intrinsic weaknesses to Venezuala's economy. Chavez's biggest mistake was making no attempt to diversify, but it's entirely possible that Venezuala actually can't diversify to the level needed due to not having much in the way of natural resources besides oil.
Well, even with the lower prices on oil, it could have worked, otherwise other countries would have gotten down the drain as well. Except he put loyalists (ill-versed in the art of producing oil and maintaining the industry) in place, and the lower prices hit approximately when the existing infrastructures were also doing very poorly with low maintenance. Which lead to the inability to maintain production levels and crashing the revenues even further.
When it's your lifeline, trying to cater to it properly instead of corrupting it would have been a good idea, maybe.
![[image loading]](https://marketrealist.imgix.net/uploads/2018/03/VeneZuela.png)
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On January 27 2019 22:42 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 21:31 iamthedave wrote:On January 27 2019 20:26 RvB wrote:On January 27 2019 18:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 27 2019 16:51 RvB wrote:On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. It wasn't a paradise before Chavez but his insane economic policy which could only be sustained by record oil revenue directly led to this humanitarian disaster. To be honest in many ways, Chavez record is not even that bad in itself and even had quite remarquable achivements. And it would be fair to say also that the country was a corrupt mess sitting on enormous ressources being sucked up by american companies before he came to power. The guy was an authoritarian populist and he might have paved the way to what Venezuela is experiencing now but he divided poverty by two, tripled the GNP per capita, gave the country a solid education and health system, and so on and so forth. The two problems have been that his “bolivarian” program was built on a strong barrel and that the rest of its economy is terribly underdevelopped, so when the oil prices plunged they took with them the economy of the whole country, and of course that Maduro is an incompetent, dishonest idiot. And Venezuela never had the structures and the institutions to survive a moron as the US do. As much as the limited damages Trump do are a testament to the resilience of US democracy, the presidency of Maduro has exposed all the weaknesses of Venezuela. The nationalisation of Venezuala's oil industry was in the 70's. The cooperation with international multinationals was also necessary for outside expertise and technology. Partly nationalising the industry while cooperating with multinationals is pretty normal. Even developed countries usually follow that route. What Chavez did is put it full of cronies and use it for political projects. It was quite efficient before Chavez but not so much after. The problem is that Chavez exacerbated the problems in the economy. Nationalizing industries, price caps, pegging his currency to the dollar, his many socialistic vanity projects, unsustainable welfare etc. crowded out the private sector. Oil was literally the only thing paying for all his welfare projects and that's a consequence of his own policy. All Maduro did is continue this disastrous economic policy with oil prices collapsing. The division between Chavez and Maduro is entirely arbitrary. Venezuela makes once again clear that socialism is a shitty economic system and that the welfare state has to be paid by a market based economy. All of which is ignoring that Venezuala was dependent on oil before Chavez, too, thus drawing a false conclusion in an attempt to make Socialism look bad. What fucked Venezuala over was a change in the oil market, not 'crowding out the private sector'. And prior to Chavez that private sector just took all the money and left the poor in horrendous conditions. If you want to look at it another way, Chavez's time was a period of boom for the poor and disenfranchised instead of another period of boom for oil executives. There were mistakes made but they had nothing to do with Socialism per se, and far more to do with intrinsic weaknesses to Venezuala's economy. Chavez's biggest mistake was making no attempt to diversify, but it's entirely possible that Venezuala actually can't diversify to the level needed due to not having much in the way of natural resources besides oil. Well, even with the lower prices on oil, it could have worked, otherwise other countries would have gotten down the drain as well. Except he put loyalists (ill-versed in the art of producing oil and maintaining the industry) in place, and the lower prices hit approximately when the existing infrastructures were also doing very poorly with low maintenance. Which lead to the inability to maintain production levels and crashing the revenues even further. When it's your lifeline, trying to cater to it properly instead of corrupting it would have been a good idea, maybe.
Yep. These are the flaws Chavez had as a leader. He made choices he had no need to make, because he was a soldier first and politician later.
There's no reason at all why he couldn't have invested in improvements to the oil infrastructure or better training for his guys. Even if he wanted to keep entirely away from those evil capitalists there were allies who could have provided modern levels of training for his oil folks.
Drawing a criticism of Socialism because of one man's lack of foresight is nonsensical.
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On January 27 2019 18:46 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 13:10 Mohdoo wrote:On January 27 2019 11:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 27 2019 11:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 27 2019 10:29 JimmiC wrote:
Some people are arguing the opposite. That is sanctions and so on that is why Venezuela is in the mess they are. I agree with you because they have never sanctioned oil. That is just not what some people here and the blog seem to believe. Venezuela was in a mess before any outside pressure. I recommend you do some research. The argument would then go that it was in a mess before Chavez and there was some outside pressure at this time already... But I'm sure you have researched that already. The whole idea of whining about outside influence is so infantile. Yeah, global dynamics have advanced to a point where some players are huge. This isn't some stupid ass elementary school little league softball tournament. Outside influence isn't cheating. Venezuelan only exists because the US, China and Russia allow it to exist. To me, the idea of whining about major countries influencing minor countries is no different than asking for special considerations. Eat or be eaten. There is no divine intervention allowing all countries to be <3. How exactly is it infantile, when the world's largest economy is hostile to your nation and it's putting crippling sanctions to an already struggling to reform economy...?
I'll copy paste my response to gh reading my post and asking if I feel the same about Russian influence, where I elaborated:
I don't see it as against the nature of competition, but I do see it as something worth fighting against, as a member of a competing country. There's a big difference between fighting something as a fundamentally bad practice and fighting something because you want to win.
Another thing for me is I see power consolidation as not only inevitable but positive. North America, China, Russia and the EU are the players who I see as contenders for becoming the eventual single world government. Among those, EU would be my first choice, then USA, then China, then Russia. In the free for all we currently have, I see Russia as having a very low chance if eventual dominance and they would be bad at it anyway. They are really only delaying their own fall.
But I don't see their actions as unethical. I just don't like it because I am rooting against them.
The two major needs for humanity are continuity of the consciousness (eliminate aging or transfer consciousness) and colonize other planets. Competing militaries drain humanity's resources and delay those goals. If I had a magic wand, the EU would take full control of the entire planet tomorrow so we can move on to a post-war single state. In that way, Russia is only really a distraction right now, so thinking about the next hundreds of years when we hopefully eventually achieve global unity, Russia is just making it take longer.
But I don't see Russia as violating my personal ethics regarding world domination. They have a shot and they must try their best. But I am not only rooting against them, I also think they have very poor chances. They are like a Terran floating a cc around the map instead of gg'ing out.
Ultimately, my main concern is world wide demilitarization so we can move on to the next stage of humanity. It won't be for a very long time, but it is important to remember it is what we are working towards. And I want that to conclude as soon as possible, ideally with european victory. Modern ideas of nation states are all temporary and meaningless. This stage of human development is just a tournament to see who leads us into the next stage.
Edit: fixed some typos
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EPT
